Warhammer 40K 3rd/4th edition rules misc analysis thread

[Cykeisme]

Ogryns only carry the Ripper gun, which incidentally, has a reinforced construction because it doubles as a club.
The one-handed/two-handed distinction seems to have gone away by 5th anyway, it seems.

I'm certain Ogryns are stronger than the average Ork Boy, but I wouldn't be as sure when it comes to large Nobs,. or a boss like Kaptin Badrukk. Not really sure, though.

[Serafina]

They ARE stronger, there is no reasonable doubt.

If we go by in-game rules alone, they have a strenght of % instead of 4.
But even if we only go by fluff (which is better), Ogryns are capable of lifting Chimaeras - thats right, a complete IFV.
(from a short story in the Imperial Army codex from Ed. 3).
Even if its not "lifting 60 tons), moving the vehicle alone is impressive.

Really though Orks could reach that strenght, too - but i think you have to go a bit higher than a Nob.

[Teleros]

I'm pretty sure that in the short story, the ogryn dragged the Chimera rather than pick it up. Not sure of any examples of orks being that strong though (at least, not mere boys or nobs).

[Connor MacLeod]

The novel "Sons of Fenris" mentions Ogryn lifting tanks, though, so their strength is right up there.

Moreover, we know an Ogryn can overpower a Space Marine physically (Ragnar's Claw, I believe) and that Space Marines in power armour have dozens of times the strrength of a normal (for 40K at least) human, and Ogryns are WAY stronger than that.

I'm not sure WHAT level of Ork you'd need to match an Ogryn, but I do recall quite a few sources (Chapter War, I think, and a few others) indicating that only very large/powerful Orks can match Astartes (Warbosses I think, maybe Warlords.), so I don't think many Orks as a rule could physically match an Ogyrn. (on the other hand, many ORks are bound to be alot smarter than Ogyrn, though there are those that can wield heavy weapons like grenade launchers or plasma cannon )

[Connor MacLeod]

Closing out the 3rd edition Ork codex. Next up, I'm thinking either Eldar or Dark Eldar. Any preference?

PAge 57

During the War of Dakka his warriors outshot a Tau hunter cadre...

Flash Gitz can duke it out with the much-vaunted Tau. Its worth noting that in the War of the Dakka the Orks did a very good job of handing the tau their asses.

Page 58

Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is a mighty prophet of the Waaagh!, capable of rousing entire planetary populations of Orks into a frenzy of conquest and bloodshed. He is the single most influential Ork in teh galaxy, and billions of greenskins march to war in his name.

An indication of the scope and capabilities of Thraka (Billions of orks alone?)

Page 58

During a raid upon a Space Marine command sanctum, Ghazghkull caught a bolter shell in the face that pulped a large area of his cranium and caused extensive brain damage. A Deathskull Painboy called Mad Dok Grotsnik was close to hand, and replaced part of Ghazghkull's cerebellum with bioniks made from adamantium.

Thraka is tough enough to survive a space marine bolter detonation. This was before he became a warlord, and possibly before being warboss I think.


Page 59

Grotsnik died several times that night, but he was brought back to life by an inventively applied Grot-prod.

Had his head cut open, and then operated upon by his own Gretchin (with much the same effect as a Painboy.) Again showing the sheer insane level of Orkish resilience. (As if we needed further examples?)


Page 60

The Dakkacannon mounted on Wazdakka's bike is a rapidly-firing monstrosity that has the capacity to stop a tank in its tracks.

I dont know if we should take this literally or not, but if so the recoil would be truly insane. Of course, given Orky ideas of firepower, what they're prone to do to vehicles, and the WAAGH effect this may actually be possible (if an exceptioanl xample of the feat)

Page 60

Gunning his engines, he launched his bike from teh cliff edge and sailed through the Titan's void shields. Though the force fields ignited Wazdakka and his bike, he descended like a fiery comet to smash through the canopy of the Titan's command cockpit.

I would assume this is an exceptional event (see WAAGH effect) protecting the Bike and Wazdakka, since the fact he is set on fire implies that void shields would normally destrtoy any normal matter touching it. (which we've observed from novels, like Guns of Tanith.) Nevermind maintaining any sort of forward momentum or crashing through the Titan's cockpit.

Page 89

Enormous axes with jagged metal teeth, big choppas are chosen more for sheer weight than subtlety.

...

A big shoota is a loud, ,heavy, large-calibre machine gun that bucks and sparks liek crazy when the trigger is pulled.

..

Orks use a bewildering variety of bladed, spiked, serrated, jagged, barbed, and notched hand weapons ranging form the proverbial blunt instrument to whirring Ork-tooth chainsaws.

..

An Ork's shoota is chosen due to the amount of noise it makes and the amount of damage it can do.

..

A slugga is an ugly, brutish gun perfectly designed for its ugly, brutish owner to kill his foes, eithre by shooting them at close range or beating them to death with it.

Sluggs are basically a pistol, to the Shoota's rifle. The other weapons are pretty self explanatory. Note that the big shoota seems to be a HMG analogue, and that they do use chain-weapons (chainsaws or chainswords does it matter?)


Page 90

Orks with teeth to spare sometimes come back from thePainboy's surjery with extensive cybernetic modifications.

...

Ork 'eavy armour is made from scrap taken from defeated enemies and battered into shape so that it fits its wearer.

Cybernetic orks would be tougher to kill. Eavy armour makes it even worse. I wouldn't put much stock in "Scrap", since we dont knwo what they salvage it from (Tanks, shuttles, starships, whatever.

[andrewgpaul]

Grotsnik died several times that night, but he was brought back to life by an inventively applied Grot-prod.

Had his head cut open, and then operated upon by his own Gretchin (with much the same effect as a Painboy.) Again showing the sheer insane level of Orkish resilience. (As if we needed further examples?)

You sure about that? It sounds more like a "Grot-prod" is a device used by Runtherds to keep Grots in line - something like an electric cattle-prod.

[Ford Prefect]

Gunning his engines, he launched his bike from the cliff edge and sailed through the Titan's void shields. Though the force fields ignited Wazdakka and his bike, he descended like a fiery comet to smash through the canopy of the Titan's command cockpit.

Holy ... holy shit. This is easily the most ridiculous thing I've seen in 40k, even more so than Maugan Ra going one on one with a Tyranid bio-titan and winning.

[Vendetta]

Grotsnik died several times that night, but he was brought back to life by an inventively applied Grot-prod.

Had his head cut open, and then operated upon by his own Gretchin (with much the same effect as a Painboy.) Again showing the sheer insane level of Orkish resilience. (As if we needed further examples?)

You sure about that? It sounds more like a "Grot-prod" is a device used by Runtherds to keep Grots in line - something like an electric cattle-prod.

It is. Grot prods are wargear for Runtherds. (They go up to 11, so they're also effective as a close combat weapon)

[andrewgpaul]

Off-topic, but Ghazghull originated in an article in 'Ere We Go! where Andy Chambers walked readers through the process of putting together an Ork army. It's amusing to think that one of the Imperium's most implacable foes came about because of a random roll on an equipment table.

[Falkenhayn]

Closing out the 3rd edition Ork codex. Next up, I'm thinking either Eldar or Dark Eldar. Any preference?

Eldar. In terms of the Life/Death of the Milky way, the nastiest thing the Dark Eldar have done so far is smash up the fleet anchorage at Bakka. Given, that's a pretty big fuckin' deal, but it's not like they're trying to kill the Chaos Gods.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

The Dark Eldar are probably going to be retconned some in the next year, anyway. Eldar are an interesting choice anyway, but I'd love to know more about the Demiurg or the Hrud or one of the other minor xenos races. GW needs to get to work on them right away.

[Connor MacLeod]

Okay starting the Eldar.. ths should be the 3rd edition codex, since it dates 1999...

Page 3

the edifce is some 5.36 metres high, constructed of an unknonw material, ,possibly some form of orgnaic-based polymer.

...

Intricate internal crystal circuitry bears a resemblence to the designs on the surface, which may be some kind of psycho-activated mechansim for operating the device.

...

Within a central cavity there is a small warp core. This rates at approximately 1.02 microtheres - extremely dense for its volume.

Eldar technological constrtuction, in this case a warp portal. PSychoplastics seem to be a polymer, and they have circuitry of a sort. They are evidently activated by psychic powers. They also have a warp core (presumably for activating portals.) Also note that they have a "dense warp core" - which seems to be important to its ability to open warp portals in high gravity. What we don't know is what "dense" means - is it some sort of matter or quasi-matter? Is it energy? What?

The warp aura generated by the core is of a different signature to our own, containing an alternating fluctuation wave-form. It appears that the warp breach is made into a self-contained domain, a part of, but separated from, warp space itself. Such a portal could be opened by releasing the potential energy of the collapsed warp core, enabling sizable objects ot pass through (our estimate is that a stable warp breach of 10-13.5 meters could be sustained indefinitely and expanded to 40-50 metres for short periods of time.) Inquisitor Abhorrun also made such a comment on the >>>Purity Censored<<< If this is true, it would explain the Eldar's ability to deploy from warp space from within a high gravity field, as the gravimetric forces would not effect a sub-containment field.

Eldar warp portals, (or some at least, it seems) can open inside higher gravity fields - or at least for small constructs. It seems that the Eldar can achieve this due to their "dense warp cores", the samll size of the warp gate itself (less energy required, less danger) and the fact the warp portal basically links to/from the webway (albeit briefly) so it only needs to be active for brief periods anyhow (it need not be sustained, in other words.)

Certain possible conclusions can be drawn:

- the "dense warp core" has some energetic function., Whether it temporarily stores energy, transforms it into another form frrom another (one capable of opening portals) or actually produces energy (we know from the Squats early materials the warp could produce energy).

- the energy released is expended in some form that opens a portal and holds it open (or more likely, some elmeent of the warp core uses the released energy to "open" the portal.) The bit about indefinite stability or "short term" larger openings bears mention - it means that larger portals, while controlled, are more unstable, and quite possibly unsafe. Likely they only open the larger portals in extreme emergencies (such as military ones).

As an analogy, think of a scaffold or some other solid construct that may hold up some sort of weight. The scaffold (or whatever) is built to certain specifications - it can basically hold up a certain amount of weight indefinitely. Over-burdening it with something really heavy exceeds its capabilites, and risks the scaffold collapsing under the stress. It may be able to hold it up for short periods, ,but sooner or later it will break.

The dimensions of the warp porrtal also, I think, sets a rather strict upper limit on the width/height of most Eldar war machines (although it may vary from gate to gate, nothing says they are all of the same size) and also puts some limits on how quickly they could deploy from a gate (in theory)

- Gravity again is defined as the culprit (or at least the major one) that prevents ships from opening warp portals very deeply inside a system - or rather makes it very dangerous to do so. Obviuosly as the Eldar demonstrate, it is possible even very DEEPLY in the core, at least if your warp core is sophisticated enough. Size doesnt seem to be the limiting factor in opening the portals - presumably if the Eldar traveled in the warp (Or maybe they do - I recall they have ships with warp driveS) they could emerge from the warp very close to planets.

On the other hand - Assuming you buy the older material - this does also wonder why some older Imperium tech could evidently open small warp portals in a heavy gravity (Displacement shields, warp missiles, or teleporters) but they had no larger-scale constructs. Maybe the Imperium do but its a restricted/lost technology? (I wouldn't put it past the AdMech) I suppose there might be some benefits to the small size (less power/strain imposed on real space, but it also logically wouldn't be "powerful" enough to overcome gravity either, oddly enough.)

Page 6

Faeruithir activated his jump generator. His stomach lurched momentarily as his body was shifted into the warp. visions of the immaterial realm swept across his eyes for a split-second and his mind was filled with an anarchic wailing as he could sense a great hungering maw tugging at his spirit. Then the jump generator deposited him back into the real universe.

the warp jump generators some eldar use travel the warp (another indication of their sophisticated warp technology and ability to transport things - small thigns at least - through the warp in a high gravity enviroment.) Note, though, that despite apparently having some protetion, they still have some degree of exposure to the warp.

This would also suggest the Eldar are capable of warp travel, since this isn't really like webway tech. Earlier reasoning for the Eldar not doing so probably could be rationalized as extreme fear of Slaanesh (phobia)

Page 6

..their jump generators set him and the squad a hundred yards behind the nearest of their adversaries.

range from their adversaries and a lower limit on the range of the jump pack.

Page 10

The sting comes in the form of the deadly mandiblaster, used to attack a foe from a few paces away.

range of the eldar mandiblaster - no more than 1-2 meters.

Page 12

The prow [wave serpent] is protected by an energy field to ward off enemy shots.

Wave Serpents have physical defensive shields to deflect weapons fire. Different from void shields, they seem to act like a physical barrier to turn aside weaponry rather than absorb/reradiate it. IT makes you wonder why they seem not to ever have this mentioned on their other vehicles or their capital ships. One may conjecture they do, but that due to gameplay simplifcation such fields are abstracted into their armour value (since they basically do behave like a kind of body armor - a structural reinforcement of the wraithbone or a field emitted by it, say.)

Frankly I'm just thinking that they never got shields in BFG purely out of play balance and they do exist, we just never hear about them because they dont work like void shields (A more passive defense really)

Page 15

A War Walker's pilot is encased in a powerful force field.

Again, use of protective force fields, albeit in limited applications.

[Connor MacLeod]

Part 2 of the 3rd edition Eldar Codex (1999) Then 4th edition. I may actually cover the cSM codexes after this.

Page 16

Their [Dark Reaper's] helmet vanes contain a receptor linked directly to their reaper launcher, allowing them to see exactly where their weapon is pointing. To ensure a rigid firing pose, their heavy lower leg armour and boots are fitted with sensitive stabilisers, as well as clamps which secure the ASpect Warrior to the ground.

Eldar versions of targeters and suspensors really.

Page 34

The lasblaster is a rapid-firing laser weapon, which far surpasses the clumsy lasguns of the Imperium

I think its safe to say the lasblaster is more damaging than a lasgun.

Page 35

Activated by a psychic pick-up in the helmet, it [Mandiblaster] fires a hail of needle-thin shards which act as a conductor for a highly charged laser.[

Basically I think of it as the eldar version of a needle weapon, just instead of using poison you have razor sharp shards that vaporize and explode messily. (we know some Imperial needlers can inflict physical damage rather than use a toxin, so I assume they might be able to do something similar too, just maybe with fewer needles.) Damage might be partly thermal, but mostly from damage mechanism I suspect. Energy isn't likely to be much though - kilojoules of energy unless they reduce to very high plasma temps (millions of K) or very large masses (kilograms), so I suspect most damage is from blast/shock effects when the needles are explosively vaporized (plus the impact/penetration of the needles too.)

Page 35

The Ranger long rifle is equipped with highly sophisticated sights, allowing the firer to locate weak points in the enemy's armour.

A more sophisticated version of the Imperial Guard sniper rifles. Preusmably its still a needle weapon (at least in soem forms)

Page 35

the starcannon is a highly advanced plasma weapon that uses a sophisticated electromagnetic pulse to guide its lethal bolts to the target

Eldar have more advanced plasma weaponry too... note the reference to "guide" not sure if that means they're shells or if they can fire off axis or something)

Page 36

the Wraithcannon uses the same warp technology found in the larger distort cannons . It works by opening a small warp space/real spacec hole, taring apart the target as it is ripped between dimensions.

Wraithguard weapon. smaller scale version of the D-cannon and the Warp cannons on the good ol Blackstone forts. Quite nasty as a result, of course.
The B5 fans wished the Shadows had a weapon like this.

Page 46

the ammunition [shuriken weapon] is stored as a solid core of plasti-crystal material that is forced up from the magazine by magnetic repuslor. A series of rapid high-energy impulses orginate at the rear of the weapon then move it forward at a terrific speed. These impulses detach a monomolecular slice f the ammunition core and hurl it from the weapon's barrel, while the ammunition core is kept in the line of the firing impulse by the magnetic repulsor.

This allows the weapon to fire up to a hundred rounds of ammunition in a burst of one or two seconds, and each ammunition core is good for ten or ore bursts of fir ebefore it needs replacing. The downside of the firing mechanism is the lack of rifling on the barrel, which drastically reduces its accuracy, keeping the wepaon's effective range below that of standard solid ammunition weapons of similar size.[

Good old shuriken weapons. Note the rate of fire of "hundreds of rounds" in a burst of 1-2 seconds. Considering they're good for at least ten bursts (10-20 seconds worht of firing and thousands of rounds). Lack of rifling limits the range, of course, so its probably less than that of autoguns (say 400-500 meters tops?)

Its reasonable to assuem that Shuriken weapons have a recoil at least close to what a rifle might have on full auto (hundreds of shots vs 10-15 per second) woudl suggest that individual shots have perhaps 1/10th or 1/20th the momentum "per shot" (assuming between 200 and 800 rounds per second, thats between .3 and .1 kg*m/s of momentum per round respecitviely) but this makes up for it with many more shots, each of them razor sharp (helps penetration) If velocity is hypersonic (like a coilgun/railgun would, say 2 km/s) each disc would have the individual KE of a pistol bullet, more or less. Of course collectively, the KE would match/exceed most assualt rifles.

It is worth noting that some sources suggest shuriken weapons are "silent" weapons, but this would mean a subsonic velocity - which would further reducee range and damage. In practice, if they do this they probably go with a "heavier" round so as to retain some letality. Given the fact that they use a solid core of material as ammo (and its just cut off the block) they can quite easily vary the size/weight of an individual round, and can likely tailor the rate of fire as well as velocity. (much like Mass effect or Learyverse rifles, or the spike/slug weapons of the renegade Legion universe.)

Page 46

Eldar laser weapons appear to function in a similar way to our own, using highly focused light beams to cause traumatic temperature change on impact with the target. However, they have far more efficient power generation and transmission systems, using artificially grown crystals to filter and refine the laser bursts ot their optimum power and potency.

Eldar lasguns are more efficient than Imperial counterparts, but not necceesarily more powerful due to increased energy (though this is possible as well.)

This also confirms that lasguns are "light" based wepaons and rely on thermal/shock effects (a rapid temperautre change suggests explosive vaporization as described in the 3rd edition rules)

Page 47

The Distort cannon uses a warp engine to collapse an area of real space, effectively creating a miniature warp hole. If the target is not wholly swept into warp space, it is then most usually torn to pieces by the complex gravitational forces employed.

D-cannon operation. Its note that it uses a warp engine, as this suggets warp engine effects can be targeted (likely starships do this already and its only remarkable here for the miniaturization of the effect.)

What is interesting is the mention of "complex gravitational forces" employed in the weapon, which in turns suggests that there are significant gravitational effects associated with all warp portals (temporary or otherwise). Its possible that the interactions between the warp portal's gravity field and that of s urrounding matter (liek stars) is what screws things up so nastily - warp portals (if they mass anything at all) probably are very light and prone to manipulation/disruption by gravity.


Page 47

As with most races, they [Eldar] make wide use of mono-molecular edged blades and disruption powerfields.

The Eldar make use of "mono molecular edged blades" (chain and reguar blade wwapons) as well as powerfile dweapons (which disrupt the target.) It is interesting to note tht the phrasing suggests other powers use mono weapons. The Imperium and Chaos are likely contenders of this fact, of course.

[Bedlam]

the starcannon is a highly advanced plasma weapon that uses a sophisticated electromagnetic pulse to guide its lethal bolts to the target

Eldar have more advanced plasma weaponry too... note the reference to "guide" not sure if that means they're shells or if they can fire off axis or something)

I took this to mean that the targetting system created some sort of ionised path to the target that ment the plasma could travel easier along it making it more efficient so that it looses less energy over distance and / or is more accurate.

[Falkenhayn]

Shuriken weapons may be explained by the mechanics of the AN-94. By firing a two-round burst at 1800 rpm, a trained operator can fire 2 bullets with the same sight picture, before the recoil hits. Competent operators use this feature to put two bullets through the same hole.

If the Eldar are firing "hundreds" of shurikens in "seconds", then it stands to reason that they're landing dozens of shuriken, on top of the same aim point, from the same sight picture, before the recoil effects the lay of the weapon or the shooter himself.

[Connor MacLeod]

I suspect they're just firing very low velocity shot when they're shooting that many rounds. Generally I've seen alot of depictions of shuriken weapon as being very very quiet, which means they're not likely to be supersonic. (Then again, since they are monomolecular edge, they don't need alot of velocity to be dangerous.) I think of it as analogous to some sort of shotgun flechette mode

Then again the depictions also not they just make some tiny holes in people, so they probably NEED hundreds of little shots like that to do any real damage - and landing hits on the same point won't really help in those cases. If the range is close enough and the target big enough (or you have ag roup of targets), then it probably doesn't matter how accurate you are (shotgun analogy yet again)

Falkenhayn: I've been aware of that too. The H&K caseless rifle (G11?) had that same capability. But I doubt in this case it would matter since the Eldar hd some technobabble recoil damping tech built into their weapons (suspensors perhaps or the Eldar analogue)

[Cykeisme]

The lasblaster is a rapid-firing laser weapon, which far surpasses the clumsy lasguns of the Imperium

I think its safe to say the lasblaster is more damaging than a lasgun.

I don't know, Connor.. maybe a lasblaster is just less clumsy than a lasgun

[Falkenhayn]

Falkenhayn: I've been aware of that too. The H&K caseless rifle (G11?) had that same capability. But I doubt in this case it would matter since the Eldar hd some technobabble recoil damping tech built into their weapons (suspensors perhaps or the Eldar analogue)

Ok.

So the additional AP potential is gross overkill on flak armor, and negligible against power armor? Not to try and extract/manufacture meaning from your words, Connor, but as a general question.

[Connor MacLeod]

So the additional AP potential is gross overkill on flak armor, and negligible against power armor? Not to try and extract/manufacture meaning from your words, Connor, but as a general question.

I have to honestly say its not definite either way. I can think of instances where shuriken weapons punch through power armour with little or no effort, but others where it seems to just bounce off. Out of universe it just relaly comes down to authorial fiat (like most things really) and in all honesty I'm just trying to kludge together a workable answer. The thing that's always dirven me nuts is the "shuriken weapons are often silent" since that pretty much rules out supersonic weapons - but to gain long range with anyn weapon velocity is important (mass can offset this some, but that too is limited in the weapon design, as is recoil to an extent)

How I tend to think of them working is like Mass Effect/Renegade Legion small arms, since their operation is largely similar (They slice off a given quantity of material from an "ammo mass" and hurl it out.) That approach can give you alot of variability - you can go high velocity/high ROF/low mass, high velocity/high.mass/low ROF, High mass/High ROF/Low velocity, or others. Hell, you can probably pretty much tailor it to whatever ranges or situations or enviroments you need to, and the psychic-oriented nature of much of Eldar tech probably can make it "auto-adaptive" for all we know. With short ranges, or lightly armoured troops you might go for more of a "shotgun" approach (lots of low mass, low velocity shuriken) whereas ith power armoured troops you might go for higher mass/velocity ammo. OR maybe you want to do sniping from concealment (low velocity and higher mass) or go for a long range shot (high velocity and/or mass, and fewer shots.)

The "sharpness" aspect of the shurikens is something I leave intentioally unquantified because it is useful to fill in alot of ambiguity with regards to penetration or damage, and whatnot, and I always like to have a little wiggle room.

[Imperial Overlord]

I would assume this is an exceptional event (see WAAGH effect) protecting the Bike and Wazdakka, since the fact he is set on fire implies that void shields would normally destrtoy any normal matter touching it. (which we've observed from novels, like Guns of Tanith.) Nevermind maintaining any sort of forward momentum or crashing through the Titan's cockpit.

Passing through the void shield isn't an exceptional event. There are references to comparatively slow moving objects (certain tyranid weapons, a type of low velocity "bowling ball" gargant shot, etcetera) passing through void shields. All of these pass through instances have involved starships and titans, which are mobile objects with void shields and presumably don't want them "going off" so to speak every time they pass a bunch of trees or the like.

[Balrog]

I have to honestly say its not definite either way. I can think of instances where shuriken weapons punch through power armour with little or no effort, but others where it seems to just bounce off. Out of universe it just relaly comes down to authorial fiat (like most things really) and in all honesty I'm just trying to kludge together a workable answer. The thing that's always dirven me nuts is the "shuriken weapons are often silent" since that pretty much rules out supersonic weapons - but to gain long range with anyn weapon velocity is important (mass can offset this some, but that too is limited in the weapon design, as is recoil to an extent)

There are different versions of shuriken catapults - Dire Avengers use one that's more powerful than normal Guardians - which could explain why sometimes they bounce off power armor while in others they might become embedded or punch through. Either way they're still quite deadly to normal soldiers, able to slice through a metal wall and dice the humans hiding behind it.

[Connor MacLeod]

Passing through the void shield isn't an exceptional event. There are references to comparatively slow moving objects (certain tyranid weapons, a type of low velocity "bowling ball" gargant shot, etcetera) passing through void shields. All of these pass through instances have involved starships and titans, which are mobile objects with void shields and presumably don't want them "going off" so to speak every time they pass a bunch of trees or the like.

Tyranid weapons are wanky, bowling balls (es low velocity) are going to be huge masses of unknown metal) and so on and so forth. We've gone over the w hole "slow moving objects pass through void shields" bit and there might be some rationalizations for it (it acts like a solid indestructible barrier and something travelling too fast is more likely to be smashed), but the context is of the void shield actaully "igniting" him. I suppose that it might be argued that the void shield is "resisting" and there's some frictional effect causing the heat up, but we also know Void shields apparently consume quite a bit of energy (Thats was one of the reasons why Titans needed plasma reactors IIRC and that energy just doesn't disappear into thin air either.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm going to take a shorrt break from Eldar to cover the Craftwolrd Eldar then bAttlezone Cityfight (I forgot I had that one covered anyhow. I'll post it sometime later this week.

Anyhow, Craftworld Eldar. Not sure if this was actually released as a genuine Codex, but like the Catachan one I've seen it online.

Craftworld Eldar:

These ealry craftworlds were considerably smaller than now but, none the less, they wer still whole self-contained communities housing hundreds of Eldar families.

A low end for Craftworld numbers in the hundreds/thousands (600-1000)

Since hte Fall, the original craftworlds have grown considerably in size so that they are now ten or a hundred times larger than the original trading ships which lie at their cores.

If we knew how big the "old" craftworlds were we might be able to figure out how big they are now... Assuming a multi-km vessel like man Imperial ones its likely that it would be double digit kms.

I was able to deduce that, much as the skeleton of an animal provides a framework for its fleshy tissue, so the Wraithbone of an Eldar spacecraft is a living core around which its functional structures are arranged. The Wraithbone not only gives the construction its rigidity but also channels psychic energy. This facilitates internal communication between systems, transmits power and enables the craft to act as an organically integrated whole. In this way, the wraithbone not only performs the mechanical tasks which a bony skeleton would perform in an animal but laso the role of the nervous system and blood stream.

Wraithbone's quasi-organic psychic nature. IT serves not just as a structural element, but also a power transmission, communication, and electronic/mechanical functions. Oh yeah, and it heals.

[Imperial Overlord]

Tyranid weapons are wanky, bowling balls (es low velocity) are going to be huge masses of unknown metal) and so on and so forth. We've gone over the w hole "slow moving objects pass through void shields" bit and there might be some rationalizations for it (it acts like a solid indestructible barrier and something travelling too fast is more likely to be smashed), but the context is of the void shield actaully "igniting" him. I suppose that it might be argued that the void shield is "resisting" and there's some frictional effect causing the heat up, but we also know Void shields apparently consume quite a bit of energy (Thats was one of the reasons why Titans needed plasma reactors IIRC and that energy just doesn't disappear into thin air either.

I'm not arguing that he wouldn't ignite (the huge amount of energy blocked by void shields and consumed by them to remain active has to go somewhere), but that a relatively slow moving (compared to most battlefield ordinance) ork passing through them is consistent with a lot of the material and doesn't require special rationalization.

[Cykeisme]

There was a Dark Angels comic (Connor might be able to provide more info) where a Space Marine bike that tried to ride through an Ork gargant's void shields was pulverized; his sergeant got the rest of the squad through the shield by coming to a complete stop and allowing the gargant to approach them instead.
While it may not have been necessary to stop completely, it may be.
Regardless, Wazdakka was definitely travelling fast enough to meet whatever criteria void shield treats as "do not allow past".

Also, in the Dark Angels comic, the void shield exerted enough force to stop an object as large and armored as a Space Marine and his bike, probably travelling at a mere 25-30 m/s (as opposed to a much higher velocity for a weapon's projectile).
Thus, I get the impression that a void shield's effects are either triggered or not.. rather than a sliding scale of speed-to-effect.

I take it that Wazdakka's penetration of the void shield was an instance of pure insane Orky power (latest psychic abilities and all that).


As an aside, does it say what kind of titan it was?