TSCC Canceled

[Faqa]

But the role of companion was already filled by both Derek, Cameron and Charlie. We do not need another "outsider finds out about robots, is shocked" storyline, as we already had those with no less than three persons (charlie, Ellison and to a degree, John himself).

Each of which brought something unique to the table, making NOT just a "outsider finds out about robots, is shocked" storyline. I see no reason why Riley could not have from her end.

Besides, Charlie was more of an occasional ally than a show regular. Although I agree that Riley's role could have been similar.

Meh. Neither really managed to break the bond between them. In fact, right in the S2 finale, he once again gambles everything just to get her back.

It's not that crushing, actually. Cameron overrode her termination orders for John in Samson and Delilah, and we can see that she's more than just an emotionless machine.

Of course. He's decided he doesn't care, despite it all. That's how the storyline resolved itself.

All things considered, I can understand why Jesse would find this disturbing, especially if she doesn't know Cameron's ability to override her own programming.

Yeah, but it also gave us the great Fisher ep.

Well, nothing on the show was all bad, save for the cancellation of it.

I think my point still stands that it could have been far tighter and better.

[Peptuck]

Well, nothing on the show was all bad, save for the cancellation of it.

"Desert Cantos."

[Thanas]

Each of which brought something unique to the table, making NOT just a "outsider finds out about robots, is shocked" storyline. I see no reason why Riley could not have from her end.

Well, there is also the money angle...and off course, the show is about robots, so you can only have so many human castmembers.

All things considered, I can understand why Jesse would find this disturbing, especially if she doesn't know Cameron's ability to override her own programming.

Agreed, but one small nitpick - from what we know, Jesse doesn't know anything about their bond before she goes back. From her perspective it is all about Cameron being a heartless machine, just like the weaverbot who killed her sub crew.

I think my point still stands that it could have been far tighter and better.

That we are in agreement, but I think most of that is due to fox ordering 22 instead of 13 episodes. If you remove 9 episode, that would have culled all of those sarah acting strange storylines.

In fact, you can cut the whole Bedell episodes, plus the UFO craze and the sarah standalone episodes and you end up with a much tighter season. They probably didn't have the budget for more.

[Oskuro]

I was just thinking about Shroomy calling Riley fat, and kind of came to a realization of shorts. Maybe Riley (from an storytelling perspective, obviously) was desinged to be the Anti-Cameron (Maybe in-universe Jesse chose her for that reason). She's blonde, while Cameron is a brunette, she has a wider frame, while cameron is very thin, and she has that friendly face, while Cameron is just ROBOT-RIVER.

[Thanas]

I was just thinking about Shroomy calling Riley fat, and kind of came to a realization of shorts. Maybe Riley (from an storytelling perspective, obviously) was desinged to be the Anti-Cameron (Maybe in-universe Jesse chose her for that reason)

In-universe Jesse just chose the first nice face she found while traling the tunnels in a half-cataconic state.

[Big Orange]

TSCC did creatively suffer from having more episodes in its second season, the subplot about Skynet already having a secret army of Terminators and human henchmen in the present day should've been compressed down, with less inane episodes about dreaming of being in a sleep clinic. However those "filler" episode helped to doom TSCC in the increasingly more cutthroat and failure prone landscape of American broadcast television.

[Thanas]

Josh Friedman has a new blog post up.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Josh Friedman has a new blog post up.

Wow that is all sorts of funny...


And really uncomfortable.

[TheLostVikings]

Josh Friedman has a new blog post up.

Wow that is all sorts of funny...


And really uncomfortable.

Especially the incredibly Catch 22 part where he has to authorize himself in order to leave, despite the fact that the upon signing the forms he is no longer in possession of the authority require to sign the forms, automatically making them invalid the second they are signed...

[Thanas]

Another new blogpost:

Link.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think the guy has some... issues?

[charlemagne]

At the least he's bitter enough for all T:SCC fans to lighten up a bit, no need to be bitter about the show having been cancelled with him being that bitter about it

[PREDATOR490]

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

While I can say I enjoyed watching TSCC, I cannot say it is surprising it got cancelled nor that it had much chance of success due to the setting, series limitiations and competition. I think the best thing to hope for is that enough pressure makes a T:SCC movie to tie up the story like Farscape did OR that the next Terminator movie attempts to weave T:SCC into it somehow.

I would much prefer the latter myself since it could unify the franchise a bit rather than leave TSCC the abandoned child and leave room to continue the story in a new series if it had enough support.

[charlemagne]

OR that the next Terminator movie attempts to weave T:SCC into it somehow.

I would much prefer the latter myself since it could unify the franchise a bit rather than leave TSCC the abandoned child and leave room to continue the story in a new series if it had enough support.

I'd like that, too, but somehow I doubt they'll "officially" remove T3 from canon by incorporating T:SCC into the movie series. But having two seperate Terminator timelines, or canons, or whatever - that sounds way to complicated for the average never-watched-T:SCC-movie-goer, so I don't think that there'll be a big T:SCC movie.

A direct-to-dvd or TV film or a mini-series tying up the season 2 cliffhanger would be sweet, though.

[Strandwolf]

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

I'm pretty sure Josh is not in therapy because of his (cancelled) show. Can't find a source right now, but this is not the first time he has mentioned his therapist in one of his "rants".

[Thanas]

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

The whole tongue-in-cheek flew right over your head, didn't it?

While I can say I enjoyed watching TSCC, I cannot say it is surprising it got cancelled nor that it had much chance of success due to the setting, series limitiations and competition. I think the best thing to hope for is that enough pressure makes a T:SCC movie to tie up the story like Farscape did OR that the next Terminator movie attempts to weave T:SCC into it somehow.

I would much prefer the latter myself since it could unify the franchise a bit rather than leave TSCC the abandoned child and leave room to continue the story in a new series if it had enough support.

That is a horrible idea and Friedman himself has said that he does not want to do that.

A direct-to-dvd or TV film or a mini-series tying up the season 2 cliffhanger would be sweet, though.

The chances for that are rather slim. It also won't work for the same reasons a movie won't work - T:SCC did well with long, sweeping story arcs. Cramming it into a movie would be a disservice to the stories IMO.

[PREDATOR490]

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

The whole tongue-in-cheek flew right over your head, didn't it?

No it did not.
I think it is better to have ended now than to have it get hammered next to the Terminator movie revival and the bitterness that would come from having the work on the series get written off by the movies.

While I can say I enjoyed watching TSCC, I cannot say it is surprising it got cancelled nor that it had much chance of success due to the setting, series limitiations and competition. I think the best thing to hope for is that enough pressure makes a T:SCC movie to tie up the story like Farscape did OR that the next Terminator movie attempts to weave T:SCC into it somehow.

I would much prefer the latter myself since it could unify the franchise a bit rather than leave TSCC the abandoned child and leave room to continue the story in a new series if it had enough support.

That is a horrible idea and Friedman himself has said that he does not want to do that.

Your entitled to your opinion.
It does strike me as a waste that T:SCC is going to end up being for nothing and rendered non-canon when the movies could incorporate it. They were willing to incorporate elements from T3 into T4, so having elements from T:SCC in T5+ dosent strike me as a bad idea and might encourage Terminator fans to watch T:SCC.

I really cant see what would be wrong about having the movie franchise either acknowledge T:SCC or import some elements to allow T:SCC to remain canon. After T3 and T4 performance I would say using those elements could improve the entire franchise but thats my opinion. Regardless, if Friedman is going to take a 'purist' stance then clearly T:SCC is dead and will remain so until either A) The stance chances or B) Enough time passes that someone comes along and does a 'Re-imagined' take on the franchise. In either case, buh-bye Summer Glau and Shirley Manson.

[Thanas]

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

The whole tongue-in-cheek flew right over your head, didn't it?

No it did not.

Yeah, that is why you posted he needed therapy, right?

I think it is better to have ended now than to have it get hammered next to the Terminator movie revival and the bitterness that would come from having the work on the series get written off by the movies.

Eh? Where is anything being written off here?

It does strike me as a waste that T:SCC is going to end up being for nothing and rendered non-canon when the movies could incorporate it.

How is it being rendered non-canon by movies that are based on T3? Are you incapable of recognizing that they are two completely different products? If you want to go down that road of having T3 and T4 all being part of the same continuity with T:SCC, here is the kicker - Cameron's actions in T:SCC made sure that T3 never happened. So if you want to argue that, then T3, T4,T5 etc. all get completely made non-canon by that action because they are all based on each other.

They were willing to incorporate elements from T3 into T4, so having elements from T:SCC in T5+ dosent strike me as a bad idea and might encourage Terminator fans to watch T:SCC.

I really cant see what would be wrong about having the movie franchise either acknowledge T:SCC or import some elements to allow T:SCC to remain canon. After T3 and T4 performance I would say using those elements could improve the entire franchise but thats my opinion.

T3 and T4 were horrible interpretations of the idea. I would not want them to be influenced by T:SCC in any way.

Regardless, if Friedman is going to take a 'purist' stance then clearly T:SCC is dead and will remain so until either A) The stance chances or B) Enough time passes that someone comes along and does a 'Re-imagined' take on the franchise. In either case, buh-bye Summer Glau and Shirley Manson.

I think reimagining is pure speculation, as is the chances of this stance being changed. I think speculation on what might happen here is not worth anything (especially coming from you), but then again, you are of course entitled to your opinion.

[PREDATOR490]

No it did not.

Yeah, that is why you posted he needed therapy, right?

He said he is in therapy and the rants leave the impression he is bitter about the situation.
I never said anything about him needing therapy.

I think it is better to have ended now than to have it get hammered next to the Terminator movie revival and the bitterness that would come from having the work on the series get written off by the movies.

Eh? Where is anything being written off here?

The series has been abandoned, the movies will continue and few are going to acknowledge T:SCC except those who have watched it or manage to pick it up later.

It does strike me as a waste that T:SCC is going to end up being for nothing and rendered non-canon when the movies could incorporate it.

How is it being rendered non-canon by movies that are based on T3?

T3 is the offical sequel to T2 and T:SCC gets left a failed dud that gets sent away to the cancelled category with Firefly, Crusade etc.

Are you incapable of recognizing that they are two completely different products?

When did I say they werent ?
They are two products based on the same franchise which has worked for other franchises and allowed them to integrate elements from one another.
Star Trek ?
Stargate ?
Battlestar Galactica ?

If you want to go down that road of having T3 and T4 all being part of the same continuity with T:SCC, here is the kicker - Cameron's actions in T:SCC made sure that T3 never happened. So if you want to argue that, then T3, T4,T5 etc. all get completely made non-canon by that action because they are all based on each other.

Both products have shown the future can be altered and the mechanics for how time travel works vs. results remain determined by the writer and that gives a movie(s) ample leeway to weave a suitable continuity however they want. But since your not given to speculation then there IS no argument wether they could incorporate them or not.

[Thanas]

No it did not.

Yeah, that is why you posted he needed therapy, right?

He said he is in therapy and the rants leave the impression he is bitter about the situation.
I never said anything about him needing therapy.

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

Suuure you didn't.

The series has been abandoned, the movies will continue and few are going to acknowledge T:SCC except those who have watched it or manage to pick it up later.

How can the movies acknowledge T:SCC? Or did you just make a massive appeal to popularity?

T3 is the offical sequel to T2 and T:SCC gets left a failed dud that gets sent away to the cancelled category with Firefly, Crusade etc.

How does this affect the canon status of T:SCC? But wait, I guess

Are you incapable of recognizing that they are two completely different products?

When did I say they werent ?

When you wrote

It does strike me as a waste that T:SCC is going to end up being for nothing and rendered non-canon when the movies could incorporate it.

Oops.

They are two products based on the same franchise which has worked for other franchises and allowed them to integrate elements from one another.
Star Trek ?
Stargate ?
Battlestar Galactica ?

So....answer me this again - how do they impact on each other?

Both products have shown the future can be altered

Yes, but this affects your argument...how?

and the mechanics for how time travel works vs. results remain determined by the writer and that gives a movie(s) ample leeway to weave a suitable continuity however they want. But since your not given to speculation then there IS no argument wether they could incorporate them or not.

Because they cannot.

[PREDATOR490]

He said he is in therapy and the rants leave the impression he is bitter about the situation.
I never said anything about him needing therapy.

Sounds like he had a lot of emotional investment in the series, fair enough to an extent but getting therapy like he mentions raises some concern about wether letting him continue in TSCC would be a good idea or not.

Suuure you didn't.

Sorry, I didnt say he needed therapy, only if he is that emotional about the situation then perhaps he shouldnt continue working on TSCC.

The series has been abandoned, the movies will continue and few are going to acknowledge T:SCC except those who have watched it or manage to pick it up later.

How can the movies acknowledge T:SCC? Or did you just make a massive appeal to popularity?

Easy option, have T-SCC things appear like Arnie appeared in T4 or the Terminators appeared from T3.

T3 is the offical sequel to T2 and T:SCC gets left a failed dud that gets sent away to the cancelled category with Firefly, Crusade etc.

How does this affect the canon status of T:SCC? But wait, I guess

If T3 is the official sequel to T2 then T:SCC cant happen. If it cant happen it cant be canon, right ?

Thus T:SCC is rendered NON-Canon because the official movie continuity > cancelled spin off based on movie continuity, right ?

However, if the movies were to incorporate T:SCC as being an Alternate Reality caused by 'insert writers fiat in movie' then movie and series can operate in their own worlds. Thus T:SCC is incorporated into the franchise and might get movie watchers to switch to T:SCC.

[Thanas]

Sorry, I didnt say he needed therapy, only if he is that emotional about the situation then perhaps he shouldnt continue working on TSCC.

That is semantic quibbling to the extreme here. In either case, the message is the same - he is unfit to work. Which is definitely not the case.

Easy option, have T-SCC things appear like Arnie appeared in T4 or the Terminators appeared from T3.

Oh, hell no. Do we have to go over this again? The progression of events is T3->T4-> T? -> T:SCC. Because in all those iterations of T4 etc. Sarah still died of cancer in 2008. Something that did not happen in T:SCC.

How does this affect the canon status of T:SCC? But wait, I guess

If T3 is the official sequel to T2 then T:SCC cant happen. If it cant happen it cant be canon, right ?

That is quite a somewhat dubious argument, since the persons holding the rights have not decided either way.

Thus T:SCC is rendered NON-Canon because the official movie continuity > cancelled spin off based on movie continuity, right ?

Why?

However, if the movies were to incorporate T:SCC as being an Alternate Reality caused by 'insert writers fiat in movie' then movie and series can operate in their own worlds. Thus T:SCC is incorporated into the franchise and might get movie watchers to switch to T:SCC.

To be honest, Salvation was so boring and stupid I doubt it will be a good advertisement. The tone of the movie and the tone of the series are totally different.

[PREDATOR490]

Easy option, have T-SCC things appear like Arnie appeared in T4 or the Terminators appeared from T3.

Oh, hell no. Do we have to go over this again? The progression of events is T3->T4-> T? -> T:SCC. Because in all those iterations of T4 etc. Sarah still died of cancer in 2008. Something that did not happen in T:SCC.

Sarah Connor died in 1997 in T3, didnt she ?
I dont recall T4 mentioning when Sarah died or even how she died and it's connection to T3 are vague.

Regardless, I was aiming more towards T-888s, Jimmy Carter, minor characters (Bidell) like T3 did. Major plot events and elements are obviously much harder to include.

How does this affect the canon status of T:SCC? But wait, I guess

If T3 is the official sequel to T2 then T:SCC cant happen. If it cant happen it cant be canon, right ?

That is quite a somewhat dubious argument, since the persons holding the rights have not decided either way.

What the right holders say or do is meaningless.
If the two products are incompatiable due to continuity issues then how are they going to make both canon ?

Thus T:SCC is rendered NON-Canon because the official movie continuity > cancelled spin off based on movie continuity, right ?

Why?

They cant make BOTH canon because they DIRECTLY contradict each other and cant be part of the same continuity, right ?
If TSCC and the movies cant be part of the same continuity as you seem to think then the offical movie story will > the cancelled series story, right ?
Since the Terminator movies directly contradict T:SCC that renders T:SCC as non-canon because it CANT happen, right ?

However, if the movies were to incorporate T:SCC as being an Alternate Reality caused by 'insert writers fiat in movie' then movie and series can operate in their own worlds. Thus T:SCC is incorporated into the franchise and might get movie watchers to switch to T:SCC.

To be honest, Salvation was so boring and stupid I doubt it will be a good advertisement. The tone of the movie and the tone of the series are totally different.

Unfortunatly, the tone of the ongoing movies is proving more successful than the tone of the cancelled series. It sucks but unforunatly the only way T:SCC is ever going to comeback now is if they try to make a movie, which is unlikely given the competition from the movie franchise, or to incorporate it into the movie franchise.
The other option is to go the way of comics and books but my experience with the Star Wars EU makes me reluctant to embrace that medium of continuing the story.

[Crazedwraith]

Acknowledging the existence of T:SCC in the next movie would be easy. Maintining continuity with it, much harder. Still T5 if it wanted to could easily have flashbacks to pre-JD featuring Lena Headley and Thomas Dekker as the Connors.

[Thanas]

Sarah Connor died in 1997 in T3, didnt she ?

Correct.

I dont recall T4 mentioning when Sarah died or even how she died and it's connection to T3 are vague.

It is a sequel to T3 and it does indeed use the same continuity.

Regardless, I was aiming more towards T-888s, Jimmy Carter, minor characters (Bidell) like T3 did. Major plot events and elements are obviously much harder to include.

I doubt T-888s would fit with the idiocy that is skynet.

What the right holders say or do is meaningless.
If the two products are incompatiable due to continuity issues then how are they going to make both canon ?

Simple. The same way old BSG and NuBSG is canon.

They cant make BOTH canon because they DIRECTLY contradict each other and cant be part of the same continuity, right ?

Right. For the purpose of discussion, they are seperate universes. Which Friedman has already said.

If TSCC and the movies cant be part of the same continuity as you seem to think then the offical movie story will > the cancelled series story, right ?

Why? What makes them more canon than T:SCC?

Since the Terminator movies directly contradict T:SCC that renders T:SCC as non-canon because it CANT happen, right ?

Why? A possible explanation would be Cameron overriding T:3/4 by her jump into the future.

Unfortunatly, the tone of the ongoing movies is proving more successful than the tone of the cancelled series.

Appeal to popularity.

It sucks but unforunatly the only way T:SCC is ever going to comeback now is if they try to make a movie, which is unlikely given the competition from the movie franchise, or to incorporate it into the movie franchise.

Why does T:SCC have to come back in the first place?

The other option is to go the way of comics and books but my experience with the Star Wars EU makes me reluctant to embrace that medium of continuing the story.

I'd rather have some books (if they ever do happen, which is unlikely) instead of another movie that is boring, stupid and has bad acting to boot.