Christopher Nolan's Inception

[Admiral Valdemar]

Like any ambiguous ending, it's open to interpretation to whatever ending you feel fits with you best. So you don't have to worry about American studio execs hacking it to pieces like they did with The Descent or something. It can be a happy or bad ending. I do get pretty bored with open and shut cases that most Western cinema gives you, so it's nice to have something that can have you debating every aspect of the film.

[Big Orange]

Oh come on. You're attributing one of the biggest box office hits, with universal critical acclaim, down to an otherwise fair actor dying during the post-production? There's a wee bit more to it than that. Like TDK being a well made film. BB certainly did well because of that.

Oh yes, The Dark Knight was a very slick film and had some excellent, classic action set pieces, it still would be a successful hit with or without Ledger's sudden death, but it seemed too dark for children and younger teens, while being a bit too daft for older teens upwards: you had to suspend you disbelief with the Joker, pretty much an unbalanced hobo, deftly running circles around large criminal cartels, an entire police department, Batman himself, and eventually the US Military. And I agree with adam_grif that the pacing was a bit off and it went on for twenty/thirty minutes too long. The Dark Knight was a good movie, but in my mind I prefered Iron Man and it wasn't much better than contemporary movies such as Watchmen, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Star Trek, and PotC: Dead Man's Chest (technically very well made, if somewhat derivative movies that got mixed critical reactions).

Inception was a better movie, it had the right balance of being a gritty action thriller that had fantasy/sci-fi overtones, pretty much a more subtle successor to The Matrix (which was a successor to The Terminator), the cast was all excellent and DiCaprio is a very long way from his 1990s pretty boy days, Murphy and Gorden-Levitt (as said before) were leading star material in their own right, and Tom Hardy finally bounced back from Star Trek: Nemesis. I could see the ambigious ending from half a continent away. The blandest action set piece (in relative terms) was the car chase in a rainy city, I prefered the mountain top military facility guarded by snow commandos, it seemed more appropriate for a dream scenario (as was the hotel with the gravity switched off). The snow base was like Shadow Moses Island, but also like Cold Winter's Winterlong facility and a similar snow base featured in Soldier of Fortune. The subconcious constructs were pretty competent as faceless goons go (hiding behind floating furniture and giving Hardy a good grapple). Maybe the snow base could've been a stone fortress from Edo Japan, Ming China, or Roman Europe?

And as for Avatar, while it doesn't look genuinely terrible as action-adventure animation, it's blown a huge budget conveying a anti-military, ecological message that was conveyed better in Watership Down (1978) and Laputa: Castle in the Sky (1986), hand drawn animations made on a small fraction of Avatar's budget and not having a quarter of a century of CGI development behind them...

[Anguirus]

And as for Avatar, while it doesn't look genuinely terrible as action-adventure animation, it's blown a huge budget conveying a anti-military, ecological message that was conveyed better in Watership Down (1978) and Laputa: Castle in the Sky (1986), hand drawn animations made on a small fraction of Avatar's budget and not having a quarter of a century of CGI development behind them...

Watership Down has fuck all to do with the military, and movies don't get made on the basis of how efficiently they can convey a social message. But hey, I suppose you can believe that only three films have ever conveyed this message since 1978 and yet that's still one too many?

[Big Orange]

Watership Down has fuck all to do with the military

Um, the main rabbit antagonists in WD were from the Efrafa Warren, a rabbit community organized along heavily militaristic lines and led by General Woundwort? But I digress.

Anyway the "endless", deepest dreamscape was pretty impressive and bizarre; I liked that oversized office building in the middle of the artificial lake that stretched off into space (it's a fairly iconic building that's overused in movies and TV shows like FlashForward).

[Vympel]

Are you sure it was that building in LA? I've been in and around that building, it didn't seem the same. Looked ... bigger.

Anyway, that was a really good movie. I was curious whether it was actually a dream state at the end but it seemed as though that spinning top thing was about to topple. I first grew suspicious when seeing his 'tails' chase him in Mombasa or wherever he was - they looked extremely bland and obviously out of place. Obviously a deliberate choice.

Only thing I didn't like was the third level snow-scene shoot out sequence. It was unnecessary and too overlong shooty-shooty for me.

[Rye]

I enjoyed it and have seen it twice, now. I wasn't as blown away as I was expecting, but it is one of the better films I've ever seen. My main complaint would be Leo's acting (his "Oh Jesus" line on the ledge was particularly lame on the rewatch).

I did like how just prior to the ending, when they're in the airport, it's basically the ending to the Wizard of Oz; "and you were there... and you were there!" etc. It was a creative, artful experience that was well orchestrated and effectively created on every level, which is what everyone should aspire to in such an industry. That said, I now have to move on to the more film studenty side, which is something I find less of a pleasure than the film's narrative on its own, but should be commented on so we can appreciate it holistically.

The whole thing seems to be a mindfuck heist thriller that's really there as a means to an end; so Nolan can tell us the process of film-making. Inception is less about giving Fischer (Murphy) Oedipal catharsis, which is an archetypal story as stock as the one in Avatar, and is more about how cinema does what it does in us, the audience. It may have been a reference back to Hitchcock and Citizen Kane and that era of Freudian Hollywood, which was cool.

Leo's quick snippet of an introduction to how dream-sharing (which is what cinema is, on a basic level) works. When watching a film, the audience observes and imagines the world of the screen, the characters are the subjects, and they are also projections of the audience member's conscious and unconscious mind. The architect is the film-writer, Leo is the director, etc.

But like I said, appreciation for all that is a tertiary pleasure for me at best. I liked the world and the prospect of venturing around my own mind in such a way, which would be the idea incepted in everyone watching, I imagine. As for whether it was real or not, well, the totem sounded like it was going to fall over, but ultimately it doesn't matter. He's let go of his guilt and moved on, it's not that important what reality he's in anymore.

Also, the limbo dreamscape was pretty similar to Dark City. I liked that. Also, fully two of the climactic dream settings were similar to MW2 levels; the mountain complex and the snow levels (including scaling icy walls with those hand picks, snowmobile chases, etc) and the bridge. Fucking loved that zero-g bit.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I confess, I thought MGS before I thought MW2 for the third level dream. I didn't notice anything bad about Leo's acting, I think he's come a long way since his mid-nineties fare with the more grown up roles, and Scorses and Nolan seem to appreciate this too. That said, none of the cast were anything but exceptional in their roles, though Murphy edged out. The best thing is, the way the whole plan works means the charade of being fellow business fliers on that 747 holds up at the end, so no one gets hurt, yet the mission to basically get that one stone rolling and cause a bigger chain of events to unfold was completed (ignoring the slight hiccup of nearly being driven insane by being trapped in such a deep induced sleep state were they to die/wake in the dream).

I'll need to go again soon to check the Mombasa scene. I'm still unsure whether to think that part of the grand dream theory, or just the way it came across at first. The track played during that chase is pretty fun to drive home from work to, though.

[Big Orange]

Are you sure it was that building in LA? I've been in and around that building, it didn't seem the same. Looked ... bigger.

It's a real place but it's obviously been oversized through the magic of CGI, it's the Department of Water and Power headquaters in Los Angeles:

Only thing I didn't like was the third level snow-scene shoot out sequence. It was unnecessary and too overlong shooty-shooty for me.

Hey different strokes for different folks - the snow base is how I envision a villain's lair should look like in a Craig era Bond movie and I liked how the Forger single handedly dismantled an entire convoy of enemy guards on a mountain slope. I prefered the Mombassa foot chase to the shootout and car chase in the dreamscape rainy city where I found it a bit hard to tell who was shooting at who when everything was a damp grey, though it was enlivened by the big plummet from the bridge, the huge freight train, and the nerdy Berber guy doing almost everything himself.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Handy dandy reference image.



I did forget that the original plan was for the van hitting the bridge barrier to wake the rest of the team, only it failed, just as sometimes I've dreamt pretty brutal falls or other events that haven't woken me up as normal. I guess it required a bigger event or multiple ones given the sedation to allow the mind to jolt itself awake.

[Channel72]

The odd thing about the ending is that, unless I'm recalling this incorrectly, DiCaprio stopped watching the spinning totem before the movie ended. He was distracted by his children so he walked away, leaving the totem spinning. At this point, the audience is left alone to watch the totem, yet there shouldn't be a third-person, "objective" perspective in a dream. So, if the ending was a dream, who exactly was watching the totem spin? The audience? Some other agent who was attempting an inception on Cobb?

[Admiral Valdemar]

The odd thing about the ending is that, unless I'm recalling this incorrectly, DiCaprio stopped watching the spinning totem before the movie ended. He was distracted by his children so he walked away, leaving the totem spinning. At this point, the audience is left alone to watch the totem, yet there shouldn't be a third-person, "objective" perspective in a dream. So, if the ending was a dream, who exactly was watching the totem spin? The audience? Some other agent who was attempting an inception on Cobb?

We don't really know. It could be there was a third party, which goes back to the idea that Cobb's being put at ease finally by the professor or someone else (even his wife, given it could be that Cobb constructed that whole murder suspect story himself and lived the delusion subconsciously).

[Big Orange]

From TGWTG Angry Joe has done a pretty good review on Inception.

[CaptHawkeye]

I loved it. The writing, acting, action, and overall design of the movie were excellent. It's a bit jumbled but not impossible to follow. I definitely felt it was a combination of the heist movie with surreal reality of movies like the Matrix. However, it's not as predictable as the average heist film, and it's not as wanked and nerd chic as The Matrix was. I didn't mind the Third Level being a Call of Duty multiplayer map honestly. I wanted to see variation in the environments of the dreams and that was delivered.

It's also the first movie i've seen Ellen Page in where I didn't think she was a snooty bitch the whole movie.

[Vympel]

I really dislike the actress that plays Cobb's wife - Marion whatsherface. She really unsettles me, I don't like anything about her. She looks like she fell out of a time machine from the 1920s. *shudder*

[Thirdfain]

A lot of people have been mentioning that they liked Arthur's fight scene in the hotel in zero-g, so I'm taking a second to write this PSA: That's Joseph Gordon-Levitt, who started out on Third Rock From the Sun and now turns out to be an actual excellent actor who can carry an action role much to everyone's surprise. His noir detective flick "Brick" is very good (with sweet fight scenese), as is his recent romantic sort of comedy "500 Days of Summer." I suggest you all check them out. I think his career is due for great things.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'll need to go again soon to check the Mombasa scene. I'm still unsure whether to think that part of the grand dream theory, or just the way it came across at first. The track played during that chase is pretty fun to drive home from work to, though.

Which trick are you referring to?

[Shroom Man 777]

I loved it. The writing, acting, action, and overall design of the movie were excellent. It's a bit jumbled but not impossible to follow. I definitely felt it was a combination of the heist movie with surreal reality of movies like the Matrix. However, it's not as predictable as the average heist film, and it's not as wanked and nerd chic as The Matrix was.

That's because instead of stupid nerdy fashion shit and computors and pseudo-philosophical shit that make shallow people feel 'deep', unlike the Matrix Inception instead had very nifty suits and slick haircuts and coats and ties and some kind of high-class formal fashion straight out of the 20s, as Vymp just said.

Man, Nolan has a very nice fashion sense.

[Gunhead]

I'll need to go again soon to check the Mombasa scene. I'm still unsure whether to think that part of the grand dream theory, or just the way it came across at first. The track played during that chase is pretty fun to drive home from work to, though.

Which trick are you referring to?

Track, I believe he means this Nice music
or Movie music

-Gunhead

[CaptHawkeye]

I was ok with Cobb and the others being soldier/commando dudes and having vast combat experience. I mean, think about it.

These guys (especially Cobb and Arthur) have been infiltrating peoples dreams for years. In that time they've fought hordes of dreamt up private armies repeatedly in an enviornment where mistakes made don't cost them their lives (Usually). Just the next paycheck and a little bit of street cred.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I really dislike the actress that plays Cobb's wife - Marion whatsherface. She really unsettles me, I don't like anything about her. She looks like she fell out of a time machine from the 1920s. *shudder*

That may have been a good intentional side-effect given her role in the film is all the bad memories Cobb recalls. I find her a great actress.

A lot of people have been mentioning that they liked Arthur's fight scene in the hotel in zero-g, so I'm taking a second to write this PSA: That's Joseph Gordon-Levitt, who started out on Third Rock From the Sun and now turns out to be an actual excellent actor who can carry an action role much to everyone's surprise. His noir detective flick "Brick" is very good (with sweet fight scenese), as is his recent romantic sort of comedy "500 Days of Summer." I suggest you all check them out. I think his career is due for great things.

I second this Brick is amazing indie cinema, and having Cobra Commander in Inception carry out such an innovative fight (fuck wire-fu bullet time crap) made my day.

That's because instead of stupid nerdy fashion shit and computors and pseudo-philosophical shit that make shallow people feel 'deep', unlike the Matrix Inception instead had very nifty suits and slick haircuts and coats and ties and some kind of high-class formal fashion straight out of the 20s, as Vymp just said.

Man, Nolan has a very nice fashion sense.

It helps that it makes sense too, given a machine that shares dream states and takes advantage of the subconscious is a far classier way of doing things. The Matrix wasn't just pretentious. It made no sense, something the sequels only further hammered home (Matrix within a Matrix? No, just Neo magic).

Also Chewie, I meant "Mombasa" from the film score.

I was ok with Cobb and the others being soldier/commando dudes and having vast combat experience. I mean, think about it.

These guys (especially Cobb and Arthur) have been infiltrating peoples dreams for years. In that time they've fought hordes of dreamt up private armies repeatedly in an enviornment where mistakes made don't cost them their lives (Usually). Just the next paycheck and a little bit of street cred.

I really wish we could see what Cobb, Arthur and Eames had done in the past. I bet some people have some really fucked up minds that bring about pretty hairy scenarios, which could maybe break the reality following world that Fischer's dreams had to follow to keep the illusion. Imagine if the mark knew he was in a dream and took control and really messed about.

[Losonti Tokash]

I was ok with Cobb and the others being soldier/commando dudes and having vast combat experience. I mean, think about it.

These guys (especially Cobb and Arthur) have been infiltrating peoples dreams for years. In that time they've fought hordes of dreamt up private armies repeatedly in an enviornment where mistakes made don't cost them their lives (Usually). Just the next paycheck and a little bit of street cred.

I really wish we could see what Cobb, Arthur and Eames had done in the past. I bet some people have some really fucked up minds that bring about pretty hairy scenarios, which could maybe break the reality following world that Fischer's dreams had to follow to keep the illusion. Imagine if the mark knew he was in a dream and took control and really messed about.

Both of these get answered near the beginning of the movie, anyway. This whole "shared dream drug/device" thing was developed by the military to let soldiers get the most realistic combat training without actually having any risk, and the marks are never in their own actual dreams, they're in one belonging to somebody else.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Both of these get answered near the beginning of the movie, anyway. This whole "shared dream drug/device" thing was developed by the military to let soldiers get the most realistic combat training without actually having any risk, and the marks are never in their own actual dreams, they're in one belonging to somebody else.

The mark can still use their own mental processes to affect the way things unfold, especially if they have had training to allow their subconscious to react better to any intruders. Whether they can voluntarily make these elements worse or add more to it I don't know, given as you say, one person commands each level of consciousness. Cobb's training for Ariadne did indicate that the projections from his subconscious cannot be controlled because, of course, it's his subconscious and is subject to the quirks that our brains have (the whole don't think of an elephant thing, for example), so I guess it depends on innate understanding within the dreamer of what's going on, like how rote learning or muscle memory engrams are created and then totally separate from our perception as an underlying process we don't even think about.

[Losonti Tokash]

Ahhh, that's a good point. I assumed you were talking more along the lines of "Mark becomes lucid, crushes extractors with a wall."

[Admiral Valdemar]

Ahhh, that's a good point. I assumed you were talking more along the lines of "Mark becomes lucid, crushes extractors with a wall."

Either way, that just wakes everyone up, and I would hope the ones carrying out the inception are prepared should they get rumbled and wake next to a mark so it doesn't end there with them stuck up shit creek.

[Whiplash]

I just thought of something. Who was dreaming during Ariadne's first lesson. If it was Leo's dream, why were they located in a place from her memory, he told her not to recreate from memory after he noticed where they were. If it were Ariadne's dream, why were the her projections attacking her?