Doctor Who S5e12 "The Pandorica Opens" [Spoilers]

[Werrf]

We know she won't die, and she'll meet the Doctor later in her life, so it doesn't feel as bad when the Doctor gets locked up. If it was some random Character of the week, then there might be a tad more suspense there.

Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, remember? Time is constantly in flux.

A few points that occurred to me while reading the thread...

Why the Pandorica instead of just killing the Doctor? Well, because killing the Doctor doesn't exactly have a great track record of success. Heck, last time the daleks took a shot at him, they hit him with their 100% lethal weapons and he didn't even need to fully regenerate. In fact, the one thing that's tended to keep him out of action most effectively throughout the series' run has been...imprisoning him. The Alliance is just getting genre savvy, that's all.

Also, every mention of resolving this with a deus ex machina - that's what this series is about. The Doctor has been referred to on more than one occasion as a God, the Lonely God, etc. He emerges from his machine and fixes everything - meaning he literally is...a God from the Machine

As to what's going to fix it, we've got the big hint that hasn't yet paid off, about Amy's life not making any sense. I'm pretty sure we're going to be going back to Little Girl Amy. My mild pet theory is that the Doctor will be able to make some kind of psychic contact with her and guide her life to where she needs to be to rescue him from the Pandorica, thus accounting for her life not making sense as well as her, um...obsession is too mild a word, really, but you know what I mean

[Admiral Valdemar]

Hmm, I wonder if the "There's one thing you never put in a trap: me!" speech has any relevance to this situation. Given The Doctor was manipulated from the very start of this story arc to being trapped in the Pandorica, either he really knew what was going on, or he has totally underestimated the situation. His disbelief at the most threatening species he'd come across banding together to stop an even bigger threat to their existence would indicate he doesn't have an ace in the hole here. Which makes me think the finale really will just be based on young Amy bringing about a better outcome. As far as we're concerned, the universe has ended and The Doctor lost.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Good summation of the various aspects of the season relating to the underlying plot.

[mr friendly guy]

Well Matt Smith has said that Moffat ties it up nicely by how the "magic of time travel is perfectly captured." I wonder if some future Doctor (Matt Smith incarnation still) comes to save the current Doctor. Its not like the first time DW has done this trick, but if Moffat can pull it off it would be nice. Still reading that article AV linked. Will post more if I have anything else to add after finishing the article.

[Archaic`]

Been looking at a few of these speculation things myself, and ran across something rather interesting. The inside shots of Amy's house clearly shows a 2nd staircase going up to a 3rd floor....while the outside views show the house is only 2 stories high. Perception Filter, anyone? I wonder how much the material from the seemingly throwaway episode The Lodger is relevant to that, particularly with that TARDIS like ship...

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's what I'm thinking too. The tweed jacket and different demeanour to The Doctor in "Flesh & Stone", the various hints at Amy's life being a mystery The Doctor is drawn to. Rory and Amy's supposed marriage on the 26 June 2010. Why everyone but The Doctor that Amy travels with knows about the cracks and Pandorica, but not him. The zooming into the TARDIS keyhole at the end of "The Vampires of Venice". The memory of something being able to bring back something erased by the cracks in space-time. The way the cracks have supposedly erased key events from previous periods such as the Cyber King and Dalek invasion led by Davros.

There is a LOT of subtle stuff here to mull over that is either ingenious, or just the product of fans over-thinking things. I wonder, for instance, what would have happened had the Angels not sated the crack's hunger in the Byzantium, because that was the largest such crack Eleven and Amy came across and was erasing everything from existence.

[Admiral Valdemar]

"Silence will fall."

Also, could it be that Omega is the voice? He did have that whole making-stars-go-supernova penchant of his.

[Ryushikaze]

Been looking at a few of these speculation things myself, and ran across something rather interesting. The inside shots of Amy's house clearly shows a 2nd staircase going up to a 3rd floor....while the outside views show the house is only 2 stories high. Perception Filter, anyone? I wonder how much the material from the seemingly throwaway episode The Lodger is relevant to that, particularly with that TARDIS like ship...

I had chalked that up to an attic, which would be a third floor without looking like one.

Of course, it well could be Percept-y, I think the cracks as a whole are more than than raw erasures.

[The Guid]

My pet theory:

The Doctor that got put into the Pandorica wasn't the real Doctor but an auton quickly rustled up by the Doctor when he realised he was in a trap. Same with Amy Pond, replaced at the last second.

Heck, I might well be wrong but I'm gonna look awesome if I'm right.

[Archaic`]

"Silence will fall."

Also, could it be that Omega is the voice? He did have that whole making-stars-go-supernova penchant of his.

With that alliance being so sure it was the Doctor who brought all this about, I did start to wonder if, rather than Omega, it could be the Other.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'm finding it hard to believe it could be someone we've already seen. It's not like the main antagonist hasn't been unveiled at the last minute before, though there was always foreshadowing, as with The Master. This time, we only had the cracks, not what actually caused them, since we know the TARDIS was ground zero, but didn't detonate it's engines alone. Plus, a Time Lord being able to take control of the TARDIS makes far more sense than anything else, especially a dumb Davros return.

[Werrf]

So, I don't know if this has already been mentioned in an earlier thread, pretty much a newbie here, but I rewatched Flesh & Stone last night and noticed what the Doctor was saying to Amy. It sounded a lot like what she said after Rory was absorbed - she has to remember him. My speculation - The Doctor has to let himself be eaten by a crack for some reason, and he needs someone to remember him, a psychic link back to our space time continuum, for him to get out again. Ideally with Rory, but I'm not fussy

[DarkSilver]

actually, the Doctor told Amy to remember what he told her when she was 7.

When she was Seven, he told her two things the whole "You know how when Grown-ups tell you "everything's going to be fine" even though you know it isn't.." bit...

and he told her something else.

"Amelia Pond....I like that, it's a bit fairytale"

Along with his line from this episode "Aren't you tired of your life not making any sense." (or something like that), I think THAT is the thing he wanted her to remember...

[Werrf]

Hmm, fair point...though I think the emphasis was more on her remembering than on the specific information. She asked what he'd said when she was seven, and he replied "No. That's not the point...you have to remember" It's not about what he said, it's about her remembering it.

Perhaps

[Crossroads Inc.]

This morning I watched the episode again just to re-familiarize myself with it before the next part.

Something that got to me was when the Dr first finds the "Pandorica" and gets all curious, whose inside? How long has it been here? Where did ti come form? Such a mystery! How could he possibly find out?

Well, how about using his TIME MACHINE!

How many different DrWho episodes can you think of, where he finds some ancient unknown object and wondered, who built it? where did it come from? Etc. Well, why not pop into your TARDIS, and just start going back in time till something changes?

Shoot this is something he even DID once. In 'the christmas bride' He is trying to figure out why the spider lady might be drilling to the center of the earth. So what does he do? He goes back in time to when the earth was formed!

Its something he has done in the series. So at this point imagine how much trouble he could have saved by going back to the Tardis, and "hovering" over the Stonehenge sight until he comes to the point where the pandorica was put ther! Amazing!!!

[Admiral Valdemar]

Given the TARDIS' next use saw it blow up the whole universe, what makes you think that'd work? It was demonstrably not going to, as River showed. There was a reason he was given the date he was to go to. Sometimes it doesn't work like that anyway, and may involve crossing his own timeline with some nasty effects. Or not. It depends.

[Lord Woodlouse]

It's generally best to assume the Doctor knows more about what's good and bad with time travel. Even if it does seem inconsistent to us.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, the events in "Father's Day" pretty much prove that the "Hur hur, just go back and change TIEM!" idea is blatantly obvious. And also wrong to do.

[Darksider]

Yeah, the events in "Father's Day" pretty much prove that the "Hur hur, just go back and change TIEM!" idea is blatantly obvious. And also wrong to do.

Didn't that episode show that changing the past would cause time itself to try and correct itself by summoning flying devil creatures to eat everyone? It's entirely possible that changing the past in the Whoverse isn't easy, if it's possible at all.

[mr friendly guy]

Certainly its possible to cross your own time line and change history... when the Time Lords were around. However it seems to be a bit difficult for the Doctor, so he doesn't try to risk it.

[Werrf]

Yeah, the events in "Father's Day" pretty much prove that the "Hur hur, just go back and change TIEM!" idea is blatantly obvious. And also wrong to do.

Didn't that episode show that changing the past would cause time itself to try and correct itself by summoning flying devil creatures to eat everyone? It's entirely possible that changing the past in the Whoverse isn't easy, if it's possible at all.

Oh, it's entirely easy - as long as you know what you're doing. Which we don't

The way I see Whoniverse time travel, it's enormously complicated. Sometimes you can change the past safely and easily, sometimes you can't, and whether you can or not depends on factors that we humans can't even begin to sense. "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff." Father's Day went wrong because we had two time travellers crossing their own time stream twice, making a weak point in the space-time continuum.

Short version...they can do pretty much whatever they want with time travel in the Whoniverse