PREDATOR490 wrote:AVP 2
30 - 38
This would be a prime example of a Predator in 'not fucking around' mode. Thus the technology works damn fine, its the fact the Predators we have seen thus far dont use it like that.
They want a good hunt not an instant K.O and especially not to the skull because thats what they take for trophies. This scene also demonstrates the Predator using the gun at range against a moving Xenomorph AND being able to switch vision modes.
Gun at range against a moving xenomorph? The xenomorph was SITTING THERE eating the guy's face. Also, again the Predator had to switch vision modes to detect the alien in order to shoot it. The range also wasn't that far, as they were both indoors, with the Predator merely standing on top of a store shelf while the alien was at the store floor - in the same aisle!
A Terminator will detect the Tri-Beam laser - I call bullshit on that. If the Terminator SEEs it fine, there is no indication that Terminators have any kind of 'sensors'.
A Terminator will detect the clearly visible Tri-Beam laser - I call bullshit on your face. The Terminator can see it fine. And there is indication that Terminators have sensors.
Even IF the Terminator sees it... - T1 Arnie was as guilty of being pretty slow on the uptake.
The tri-beam is clearly visible. Those black guys in the first Predator were clearly able to see it. Shit, man, you STILL haven't addressed my point on how Carl Weathers was able to detect the Predator with his Mk. 1 eyeball despite the Pred's cloak!
T1 Police Shootout
1:51 - We see the Terminator is not in IR mode and the cops get off shots before T manages to fire back. It takes him just as long to shoot a fleeing cop in the back in a straight corridor at close range. Finally, we see T is unable to hit a Reese at range even after dropping the shotgun in favor of the rifle. This IS the Terminator a Predator is supposedly going up against and if this seems the most likely time the P2 would be drawn into the fight.
Reese (and Sarah) are far smaller and quicker targets than giant space alienoids out looking for a fight. Also, out of everyone in that police station, only the two of them made it out of there alive.
Earlier in the film we have the T literally walk up to Sarah Connor and have a laser sight fixed on her skull at point blank range. Interestingly enough, he had to fucking cock the pistol... so yeah. I'm sure while he is busy drawing the gun, cocking it and then finally aiming the sight at the Predator's skull it will still be locking on ?
Unarmed defenseless target easily terminated methodologically via phonebook killing =/= possible threat armed with plasma weapons?
1) NO IR from Arnie - Not going to be seeing the Predator while cloaked and using IR at this point is rather stupid for the simple fact you have nameless humans running around as well.
Predator has the advantage in jumping the T unless it gets lucky.
Then the Predator spears the Terminator, or uses its plasma caster on the Terminator. The Terminator takes it and after a minute, comes back up - which the Predator is totally not expecting - and rips the Predator's head off or shoots it in the face.
2) Both are unprepared against the other. T expects to be shooting humans and aims as such, P expects to be shooting humans and aims as such.
Thus, which one is more likely to figure out the other ?
The Machine thats been programed to 'Terminate' humans or Space aliens from another world that hunt anything that catches their intrest ?
I think the Terminator will be more likely to figure out the Predator by virtue of the Predator looking externally like a seven foot tall reptilianoid space alien totting hokey-dokey plasma cannons and cloaking shit, whereas the Terminator externally looks like an average Austrian humanoid being - and Predator sensors are so shit that they can't even penetrate South American mud.
I lean towards the Predator for the simple fact that stalking their prey is part of the hunt. The P2 version had a thing for playing around but . Case in point, even with the CIA agents using their spacesuits the Predator was quite capable of adapting around it and then raping them en-masse. It wont take much observation or brains to realise T isnt 'normal'.
Once that happens the chances of a P stalking / scanning long enough to figure out the situation increases the more time goes by while T continues it's rampage.
Even with an assured first strike, the Predator will still need better weapons than the standard hunting gear to get an assured kill on the Terminator.
Besides, how will the Predator be able to get a close up look on the Terminator? In Predator 1, the Predator only observed the spec force's actions from afar, and only entered the battle zone (the guerrilla base) AFTER the fighting was done. Is the Predator going to observe the Terminator by putting himself inside the bar or the shot-up police station while the firefight is in progress? Is he going to be standing around there in the hallway while bullets are flying around and people are running everywhere? Cause in the first Predator, he only went and checked the scene out and watched Arnold's team AFTER the fighting was done.
3) I would guess the P2 will switch to that spear inside due to the fact its tight corridors or simply hurl that disc right down the corridor at the T. Either way, the T has both hands full with long ass guns that are rather bulky to wield against an opponent that has both ranged and melee weapons.
The Terminator has nothing to worry about ineffectual Predator melee weapons. The only thing that can do damage would be the plasma cannon and the disc.
Melee against a T
Kyle Reese gets in a fair share of licks with that pipe before the T even bothers to react. Sure, the T is semi-fucked AND may not consider Reese a valid threat but really. I would expect a P to have more strength than a half-fucked Reese AND a sharpened spear to be as capable at piercing the body of a T like the T-1000 did with a crude spear. Even if the T lashes out, Reese was still kicking and a suited up Predator should be able to take a blow better.
None of Reese's hits damaged the T or even inconvenienced it. All the Terminator gave Reese was a bitchsmack to get him out of his way, because all Reese was doing was standing in his way. The Terminator didn't even bother to kill Reese even when it perfectly could (neck snap, heart-rip, or some shit)!
What makes you think that the Predator's spear can pierce the Terminator's body, like the T-1000 did, when the T-1000 has superior strength and detailed files in Terminator anatomy - and had the advantage of severely fucking the T-800 up and also did multiple stabs at the Terminator?
Finally, the closest example is T2 where we see their equivelent of Melee is basically trying to slam each other into things. Predators are used to dealing with melee attacks if only for the fact they have an obvious taste for it. The P2 version largely so. Thus we have a bulked up melee fighter armed with wrist blades, spears and a wristgun going against a machine that relies on its brute strength in melee. I would not expect a Predator to try and brute force the T, especially if it catches on to what it is.
Um, then how are you going to kill a Terminator in melee combat? You can't gut it with a wrist blade, it's got no guts or veins or organs. The only way you can kill a Terminator in melee combat is to smash its processor or disable its power source - and to do that you NEED to brute strength it and smash it around! That and hopefully a lot of handy industrial equipment around for your final fight scene in the factory!
This "brute strength" smashing the opponent around is what the Terminators use on OTHER Terminators, precisely because Terminators don't have bones or guts or organs or other squishy vulnerable bits. The only way two Terminators can kill each other in melee is to try and inflict brute damage on their systems. Against HUMANS, and other living creatures with squishy guts (like Predators), the Terminators have clearly shown their ability to do martial arts-style arm breakings (T2), hand-crushings, and heart-rippings (T1) - without even brute strength or throwing shit around.
After that, its a simple case of watching as the Predator either:
A) Fucks off for a BFG
The OP says the Pred gets its gear from P2. We haven't seen any BFGs in the films anyway, they might not have been carrying any. Would a bunch of hillbillies going out killing some critters be bringing assault rifles or rocket launchers in their pickup truck?
B) Decides to say 'fuck it' and bring out a toy to kill the T, Disc, Plasmacaster, Wrist gun, Spear gun, Net gun, Wrist Nuke.
Only the disc and the plasma caster present threats. The wrist gun, IIRC, was stopped by Danny Glover's bullet proof vest. The spear gun, meh. Net gun? Meh. The wrist nuke obviously won't be used casually.
C) Predator decides to 'challenge' itself by going full melee against an unarmed T using Wrist Blades or Spear.
Then it's fucked.
I'm still going with Predator even in melee. The P2 was gung-ho about doing melee and demonstrated it was quite capable at taking out groups at close range. I do not recall the T demonstrating that kind of capability which leaves us with a nimble armed trained melee fighter against a slower unarmed untrained melee fighter.
Except the nimble armed trained melee fighter has squishy guts and organs (despite being a seven foot tall alienoid), while the unarmed "untrained" melee fighter is made out of hyperalloy (and has shown himself to be able to rip people's hearts off, break arms in martial-arts style locks, and shit)?
PREDATOR490 wrote:So the Terminator only resorts to ripping someone's heart out until AFTER they present violence.
Of course, you idiot! In T1, if you look closely you can see Arnold's silhouetted penis swing around while he's walking around naked in the dark. This is an important point. Why? Because, according to your shithead logic, the Terminator should resort to ripping someone's heart willy nilly even if the person's doing nothing and hasn't presented violence yet! Imagine naked Arnold running around ripping the hearts of everyone he meets in the street, even if they're not presenting violence or shit!
While his penis is swinging around!
Ok, the Terminator will proceed to kill the Predator AFTER it has already attacked. Leaving the entire outcome dependant on what the Predator's choice of attack is.
I have already said earlier that the P2 version is likely to get killed due to an inept decision of going to melee or if it decides to mess around. Otherwise, a truely intelligent Predator will see the T is a machine and pick a weapon that will kill it and then follow through quickly.
Situation's very unfair either way, since the Predator will always attack the Terminator first. The OP has the Terminator preoccupied with shit, it'll be way busy hunting down Sarah and shit and will be totally focused on that while the Predator is free to fuck around and do whatever.
PREDATOR490 wrote:The Terminator suposedly has superior strength which only comes into play in melee.
T1 Punk Scene
It ripped his heart out but it took a sweet time about it.
Because the punk was utterly harmless? You notice that when the Terminator is taking on a more dangerous opponent, like another Terminator (T-1000), neither of them take their "sweet time" about trying to smash the fuck out of each other's faces.
A Terminator will have no idea where the heart is on a Predator nevermind what the fuck a Predator is.
As usual this Terminator is shockingly slow to react even when undamaged and only does so AFTER being attacked. Granted, if the Predator uses the wrist blades the chances are its going to end up armless, if it strikes with the spear, the question is wether or not that spear is sharp enough to achieve the same result the T-1000 did. If someone wants to pony up information on how strong or weak a P spear is then by all means.
The question is not about sharpness, it's about whether or not the Predator is as strong as the T-1000 to be able to drive the spear through the Terminator - and if it knows where to hit the Terminator, like the T-1000 did.
Even if the Terminator has no idea where the heart is on a Predator, nevermind what the fuck a Predator is, the Predator still has squishy organs inside of its ugly pussy-faced reptilianoid space alien body. Even if the Terminator tries to rip the Predator's heart off, and instead pulls out a glow-in-the-dark green-blooded colon because the Predator is full of shit, the Predator is still pretty fucked.
Hurling the P dosent achieve much except give it the chance to get-up and
A) Fuck off to do whatever
B) Switch to another weapon (P2, the Predator went for the disc or simply hurled the spear)
C) Get wise to the fact the T is considerably stronger than it and change tactics
Predators are immune from blunt force trauma? Terminators have shown heart/organ-ripping and also limb-breaking. I wonder if the Predator can still activate its wrist bomb if the Terminator has broken all its fingers.
1) T-800 does not have IR sensors. They have an IR MODE which would detect the P but that depends entirely on wether or not the T switches it on. Up until the P makes that weakness known the T is not going to see the P coming.
"The T-800 does not have IR sensors. They have an IR MODE." If the Terminator doesn't have IR sensors, then where does it get its IR MODE from? Its shiny metal ass?
2) The OP says the P is watching the T. In P2 this resulted in the Predator stalking that cop. The question becomes wether or not the P will watch enough to clue in on the fact it is a machine and adjust tactics accordingly. I.E Going out and getting a BFG or dialing up the plasmacaster setting to something that will kill a T.
Do the plasma casters even have higher (or high enough) settings? Well, maybe it does, it's the most powerful weapon in the Pred's arsenal anyway.
3) The T has a pistol, rifle and shotgun in T1. The latter of which only come into play in the police shootout and being dual wielded. The T is neither fast nor exceedingly accurate so in a ranged match its: poorly wielded rifle / shotgun vs. computer assisted tracking plasma gun, arm mounted gun or thrown frisbee.
The Terminator killed everyone with its weapons, except Sarah and Kyle (small, fast moving targets). The Terminator is a robot, so by definition its weapons are all computer assisted tracking.
The Predator, on the other hand, scores most of its plasma kills against stationary targets while taking time to aim with its tri-beam. In P1 and P2, I don't recall the Predator ever using its plasma on moving targets. The tri-beam targetter is mounted on the Predator's helmet, right? It'd be amusing to see how a Predator would move its head, like, so fast, up and down and sideways, while trying to tag a moving target that's running. The Predator would end up with a bad case of stiff neck.
9:50
Disc
The disc barely gets used and we dont see the results beyond the fact it apparantly can cut through meat and a person without a problem. Then it comes back to the owner... or the Predator goes and gets it... anyone's guess over what this will do to a Terminator.
The Predator has to swing the thing, right? I think it's
Better video
3:00
Spear
We see the P2 jumping into a group with the spear and taking out the entire team at close range.
3:25
This Predator likes to stab / lift so does a P have enough strength to impale / lift and hurl a T ?
The Predator can lift a T, because Ts just have human weight. But can it impale a T? Is it as strong as a T-1000? Will the Terminator just stand by and let him do it? The Terminator might just as well end up ripping the spear off the Predator's hands, or catch the spear, or pry the spear off his chest, and throw it back at the Predator's face!
3:40 - 3:51
Plasmacaster
Targets and zaps and zaps the dude. Fairly long time but this is a Predator that is locking on their lights rather than their bodies. Something which a Terminator isnt going to be able to avoid via stupid space suit. Afterall, T's supposedly display the right data for a human otherwise the debate of wether or not the P will scan out the T is dead.
Pred scanners are of dubious value. I mean, they can't even track a naked man in mud. If for some freak reason, the Terminator gets himself covered in mud, that Predator is doomed!
As of yet, there seems to be no conclusive idea of how powerful those cannons can get to nor even if ALL of those guns are the same.
Unless the new movie has something... take your guess once again.
The Terminator might even be able to withstand those plasma shots. The damage the shots did to Blaine's body in P1, and those two dude's heads in AVP:R, aren't that higher in yield than larger samples of conventional small arms. Arnold's rifle was able to deflect most of the plasma's damage.
Give that most P's like to have a height advantage or play in areas where they can zoom around. I do not see a Terminator being able to match the kind of leaps or agility a P demonstrates. Seems fairly obvious the first strike will be the Predator attacking as the T has no idea its coming or being watched. That first strike depends entirely on how the Predator finds the T and what stalking it reveals.
The Terminator might end up playing dead or staying down for a minute, like when it gets shotgunned a lot, and the Predator might think its dead. It might come in to collect the skull, and then the Terminator jerks back to life and surprises the Pred?
I imagine the P will actively avoid going melee if it figures out the T is stronger or disable the weapons of the T like in P1. In which case we have an unarmed T vs. a P that can just continue to zap it with ranged fire or to such a point the T is mangled like it was against Reese. Stikes to the armoured body might be brushed off easier but plasmacaster shots to the arms, legs or even the head would inflict better damage where the joint armor isnt as thick, no ?
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The P1 hit (where he disarms Arnold?) was just luck. The Predator was going for Arnold's torso (they seem to aim for center mass when shooting from afar) but the gun was in the way.
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