For those who feel nuGalactica failed...

[jollyreaper]

A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing. Lucas said that and as a child I did not appreciate it. Then he made the prequels and I truly understood.

I don't think you understand what is being discussed.

No, you're just being snarky.

There's thrilling space battles and mindless pew-pew.

There's serious character development and soap opera crap.

You need action interspersed with drama; the drama gives the action meaning, the action gives the drama payoff.

The defense claims the prosecution just wants space battles, not drama. The prosecution claims to want good drama to go with the battles. By some definitions, drama that works is drama, drama that doesn't work is melodrama. Likewise anyone driving slower than you is grandma, anyone faster than you is a maniac. Enough people with subjective opinions come together, it is a school of thought.

[Stark]

I forgot 'snarky' meant 'things you don't like'.

You posted a stupid one-liner that shows you don't actually understand what you quoted; that its useful to talk about how normal not fatnerd people engage with and enjoy scifi stuff, because they don't value a lot of the things nerds do. In particular (with a show like nBSG) normal people often aren't willing to ignore hopeless plotting, bad characters, and confused themes just because there are a lot of explosions or gruff men scowling while horn-heavy music plays. It was even suggested that the reception of a specific episode might have been more positive an otherwise, simply because it was a return to actsplosions rather than the (quite terrible) planet drama stuff.

Next time, skip over the +1 post and simply post your actual content, as you did in your second post. Its still not really relevant, but at least it doesn't make you look like a complete idiot.

[Spoonist]

And no, I have no problem with the time skip because I've seen it before and that was far more egregious in terms of length (2001: A Space Odyssey). Both did it admirably

Nope, timeskips/reboots are done because the writers can't be bothered with the restraints from former episodes leaving huge weave of plot threads hanging unresolved. Its a hallmark of soaps like Dallas, 90210 and Days of our Lives etc. Its not seen as a hallmark of writing pedigree.
And you can't compare it to 2001, its a movie, no reboot necessary because the stuff in it speaks for itself. There are thousands of movies with such timeskips as in 2001.

You did nothing wrong and perhaps I'm coming across as an asshole. That's not my intention, I assure you.

Why should I care what viewers, critics, and the production think? Why are their opinions at all relevant to my own?

Here is a small hint for the clueless:
Thinking that only your opinion is relevant=asshole
Lets reverse that shall we? Why would your single opinion over literally thousands count for anything at all? You are the anomaly and can be dismissed as easily as the green party in the US.

The "33" complaint, the alleged lack of tracking by the cylons, the "lazy" writing with the time jump, and other things that haven't yet popped up in the thread.

Nope you are missing it. These are all examples of a writing/production attitude versus the investement a viewer puts into characters and universe of a series. Such attitude usually bite a show in the ass.
Now other shows like Twin Peaks and Lost proved that you can get away with lazy ass writing and leaving plot holes and plot threads hanging without resolution as long as you, wait for it, set up the premise of vague mysteries from the get go. Instead, what nBSG did was start out with minis+s1 giving everyone a perconcieved notion of what this universe and series would deliver. Which wasn't vague nor mysterious. Its not until the production started losing it due to too short writing sessions, not having time for backtracking and checking for inconsistencies in characters and plots. Then you see them add woo woo to the mix, that was not what they had sold the series on, nor was it where the audience wanted the series to go.
So no it doesn't matter whether you think that in your opinion the 33 'complaint' can be wanked away. It still shows the lazy ass attitude of the production versus its own universe.
If you want a movie example of this attitude; take Prometheus, since it doesn't make sense and doesn't explain its inconsistencies it becomes a crappier experience. Specifically due to the premise being disjoint with the story. Just like nBSG.

[JLTucker]

You did nothing wrong and perhaps I'm coming across as an asshole. That's not my intention, I assure you.

Why should I care what viewers, critics, and the production think? Why are their opinions at all relevant to my own?

Here is a small hint for the clueless:
Thinking that only your opinion is relevant=asshole

Lets reverse that shall we? Why would your single opinion over literally thousands count for anything at all? You are the anomaly and can be dismissed as easily as the green party in the US

It was obvious that i was referring to their opinions influencing mine, you blithering idiot.

[Spoonist]

It was obvious that i was referring to their opinions influencing mine, you blithering idiot.

Again for the clueless:
Not letting people influence one's opinions=asshole
Calling someone names without adressing their points=clueless asshole

[jollyreaper]

Stark, there is simply no point in engaging with you in any level.

[JLTucker]

It was obvious that i was referring to their opinions influencing mine, you blithering idiot.

Again for the clueless:
Not letting people influence one's opinions=asshole
Calling someone names without adressing their points=clueless asshole

Ah. So I'm an asshole for disregarding every review on Rotten Tomatoes for a movie so I can come to my own conclusions. I didn't know that wanting to be as free from bias as possible made me an asshole.

Give me a few minutes to complete my response to your post. I thought I'd shoot of a response to your ridiculous notion that not wanting outside influence = asshole.

[Spoonist]

Ah. So I'm an asshole for disregarding every review on Rotten Tomatoes for a movie so I can come to my own conclusions. I didn't know that wanting to be as free from bias as possible made me an asshole.

Nope, you come off ass an asshole because not only do you disregard the views of everyone in this topic who disagrees with you, you also disregard the premise of the OP, that you disregard the reviews, viewers and production is just icing on the cake.

Give me a few minutes to complete my response to your post. I thought I'd shoot of a response to your ridiculous notion that not wanting outside influence = asshole.

Ah, I'm sorry. I take that back, it could be simple lunacy or disablity as well.

[jollyreaper]

Good points, spoon.

As far as tech geeking goes one can view WWII as human drama as well as tech porn. You can equally explore social, military, technological ramifications. If a story is focusing on the bunker drama of the Battle of Britain, strictly fighter command stuff, technology comes into play with radar jamming, aeronautics, etc, but the particulars aren't relevant for the story. The Germans attack our radars, we jam theirs, we mess with their navigation beacons, etc. If the story focuses on stress and disintegration under high pressure, that's fine. All that's required from the tech geek end is not getting the broad strokes screwed up.

If the show is about a squadron in the fight, gearhead details could become far more relevant. The personal story of RJ Mitchell and the development of the Spitfire is the stuff of greatness. A writer might want to have him working on the Spitfire even as the bombs fell. Given that he died in 1937, that would simply not work. I would be against it. Now some could see this as being a needless pedant. I don't think so.

What does this have to do with scifi? Facts matter and details matter and getting the factual stuff right makes the story all the stronger. When you area making some thing up completely from whole cloth then the only way for them to carry weight is to treat them with respect. Same goes with fantasy or any other story with made up rules. I also find it satisfying when actual thought has been put into things only seen on screen for a few moments. Say what you want about Avatar, real thought was put into the starship. Details like that are missed by most of the audience but are a real treat for those who care.

From the blood and chrome thread, there's no point in even trying to figure out anything regarding the ships, how tough they are, performance and so on. They do what plot demands. The writers never ask themselves what could be done, what is established, sticking within bounds. Superman is as strong as he needs to be in this story, regardless of what you have seen before.

[JLTucker]

Nope, timeskips/reboots are done because the writers can't be bothered with the restraints from former episodes leaving huge weave of plot threads hanging unresolved. Its a hallmark of soaps like Dallas, 90210 and Days of our Lives etc. Its not seen as a hallmark of writing pedigree.

This has me intrigued. Would you mind listing which unresolved plots remained after the time skip?

The "33" complaint, the alleged lack of tracking by the cylons, the "lazy" writing with the time jump, and other things that haven't yet popped up in the thread.

Nope you are missing it. These are all examples of a writing/production attitude versus the investement a viewer puts into characters and universe of a series. Such attitude usually bite a show in the ass.

I didn't know that the tracking method used in "33" was seen as a character investment for the viewers. Once again, the tracking is a MacGuffin and is completely irrelevant other than to nerds who want to whet their appetite with useless technobabble rambling. Let's put it this way: every single scene in the show with technobabble sucks because it has to placate people like jollyreaper. It's boring and whenever you hear it, you know something eye-roll inducing is about to appear. I'd rather watch the fleet be damaged psychologically and physically because they have to be on the alert for days on end to defend what's left of their people.

Instead, what nBSG did was start out with minis+s1 giving everyone a perconcieved notion of what this universe and series would deliver. Which wasn't vague nor mysterious. Its not until the production started losing it due to too short writing sessions, not having time for backtracking and checking for inconsistencies in characters and plots. Then you see them add woo woo to the mix, that was not what they had sold the series on, nor was it where the audience wanted the series to go.

So no it doesn't matter whether you think that in your opinion the 33 'complaint' can be wanked away. It still shows the lazy ass attitude of the production versus its own universe.

I've already admitted and agree that they likely never had anything planned out from the beginning. That is unfortunate and, quite frankly, inexcusable. But where you lost me here is the notion that they should bend over and write what the fans expected. I don't agree with fan service and never will. I think that's more lazy than anything mentioned in this thread. I think they did that with Starbuck's return because they knew fans would hate her death. I didn't like it either, but when they brought her back, it struck my as a ton of bullshit.

Nope, you come off ass an asshole because not only do you disregard the views of everyone in this topic who disagrees with you, you also disregard the premise of the OP, that you disregard the reviews, viewers and production is just icing on the cake.

I don't disregard the views here. I know they exist and I know that people have problems with the show. My problem is that they are not being defended well at all. The "33" complaint is bogus, to me, because it's a MacGuffin and completely irrelevant. The Cylons continued to track fleet despite what jollyreaper claims (I even produced evidence to refute it). The premise isn't being disregarded either because I have already mentioned some of the problems I have with the show, some that are quite huge. The difference is that I don't think these things made the show consistently slip in terms of quality. I have always seen the show as a character study, from its very beginning, and I think that remained in a satisfying manner until the end. The finale is just a boring over-CGIed mess.

I won't be responding for a while because I have two finals to prepare for. I hope you'll excuse my absence until at least Friday night as I am making a trek out of state after my last exam. My responses throughout the weekend will be sporadic as I am spending time with family.

[Themightytom]

Give me a few minutes to complete my response to your post. I thought I'd shoot of a response to your ridiculous notion that not wanting outside influence = asshole.

Ah, I'm sorry. I take that back, it could be simple lunacy or disablity as well.

...Or coming from a severely prejudiced position, so as to be oblivious of alternative context. It's ok to like a show and admit it is flawed. I know BSG ends like shit, I'm still watching my favorite episodes every now and then. You don't have to concede that the time skip was jarring to you personally, but it would probably be a good idea to acknowledge that it was jarring to a lot of people.

Seriously, 2001 isn't even main stream, it's not a good example to use a movie that is considered more artistic than entertaining as a paradigm for a TV show designed to retain viewer attention week after week.

I'm thinking after all of this discussion by the way that nBSG started to fail they minute they threw up "And they have a plan" on screen, when the writers actually didn't.

The reason I am defending the show in this thread is because I think the reasons for why it slipped (note: slipped, not just poor decisions made in a show that I think remained relatively consistent) are unconvincing. You can call me a fanboy, but I only defend what I think needs defending. The "33" complaint, the alleged lack of tracking by the cylons, the "lazy" writing with the time jump, and other things that haven't yet popped up in the thread. I still find some of the things the show did to be pretty horrible, like the final five nonsense and the finale. I never fully understood why the writers felt the need to play up the "final five' mystery as it was certainly boring. To take one of the most least interesting cylons (Diana) and spread her arc over the course of episodes for a stupid mystery is just filler and more proof why 20+ episode seasons suffer from wasted time and filler.

Wahahahahahat? Are you trying to lead me into debating other points? That's a red herring, I'm glad you're acknowledging the final five nonense take it a few steps further, the final five plot was terrible because it was obviously and poorly tacked on at the end.

The finale sucks, not because of the thematic elements that work within the context of the series, but because it's all climax and boring action.

Boring action? Seriously? Those words even go together? The pacing of the finale sucks utterly BECAUSE THEY FLOPPED BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS IN TIME back filling like crazy.

there was no good reason to go back for Hera, to risk the manpower, fuel and equipment on attacking the colony, except waaaaait a minute, there's a scene where Adama's a man of his word! Boomer is an utter traitor except waaaaait a minute, she almost got fired and Adama gave her a chance. thanks for the kid sweetie, really wish you hadn't stolen her in the first place, not to mention shooting me. Baltar really DOES care for the hallucination/genocidal maniac he dated, because his dad is a farmer, so they'll live happily ever after, Lee isn't a loose end because NOW we know that he almost had sex with Starbuck once, and so when she dissappears he's going to climb mountains and explore and be ok, and Tyrol, he killed Tory so that explains why he's Galen and going to the northern island so that that's where gaelic people can come from. that is ok too because the kid he thought was his, isn't. Oh and the opera house is allllllll a projection!
Everyone is ok with abandoning all technology and Hera is mitochondrial eve. great. Let's leap forward WAY THE FUCK TO THE FUTURE so we can play Jimmy Hendrix.

And yes, the angel shit with Starbuck was annoying, even if it was poorly foreshadowed in Razor.

Lies, it was not foreshadowed, at best her bringing "humanity to it's end" was foreshadowed because she found a planet of dead humans. After she returned from the maelstrom they did all kinds of tests to confirm she was human so Cottle is feeling really fucking stupid.

That entire arc with her in season four was pretty bad too because her development was over the minute she died. We saw all of the grieving parties. It felt like complete fan service to me to bring her back

.

dude it was fan service to kill her in the first place, she became mentally unstable IN THAT EPISODE. fell down the maelstrom while hallucinating Leoben who ran off scared later when they found her body and viper what the hell were they trying to do BESIDES keep fans guessing and spinning theories, they were so busy trying to keep throwing curveballs they never got around to thinking them out and they threw ANOTHER curveball on a whim with the mitochondrial even bullshit.

I have a book I bought with a quote from a writer about bringing her back. When I return home, I'll transcribe it because it's funny as hell and shows that the writers had no idea what the hell they were doing and had no plan in sight for the remainder of the series.

[Stark]

Stark, there is simply no point in engaging with you in any level.

It's ok, the adults are talking now.

Mightytom, I think someone already posted that quote, where it's shown that they made her came back just because it was kinda cool and not because they had any concrete idea of why or what it should mean. This is, I think, a great example of just flat out terrible writing. It might be excusable if the later follow up was rewarding or fulfilling, but obviously it wasn't. This is probably the real issue with the show plot wise; it's just Lost in space (lol) where the audience is left guessing about shit by the simple expedient of there actually being no explanation.

[lPeregrine]

Once again, the tracking is a MacGuffin and is completely irrelevant other than to nerds who want to whet their appetite with useless technobabble rambling.

Why do you insist on this straw man idea that what everyone wants is endless technobabble? Stuff like that isn't annoying because there's no meaningless technobabble "explaining" how it "works", it's annoying because it's a blatant plot device. It shows up out of nowhere when it's needed, then goes away without explanation and nobody ever asks what happened to it. It's a sign of a bad writer who, through laziness or incompetence, can't bother to keep up with a coherent plot.

And now let's look at a couple ideas for how to resolve the problem without a five-minute technobabble speech:

Turn it into more drama: "We've discovered they're tracking a radiation leak from the engines of one of our ships." Now they have to decide whether to risk the entire fleet by keeping the damaged ship and trying desperately to repair it, or abandon them to certain death to save the majority. And choose fast, because the next attack is only 17 minutes away, and we're not sure we can hold it off this time. And no matter what you choose it makes perfect sense that it's just a one-time thing.

Use it for comedy: "We caught the spy who was broadcasting our position." "But why 33 minutes?" "Oh, he was hiding in the cargo hold with the transmitter and watching every episode of his favorite TV show to pass the time, and the show is 32 minutes long." It's a complete non-explanation but you laugh at it and move on. It makes perfect sense that it's a one-time thing because it's the setup for a joke, and you don't repeat jokes.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

I really fail to see how either of those wouldn't be inferior to the episode we got. Explaining everything openly to the audience (even while avoiding technobabble) isn't a sign of great writing.

I can understand the argument that it might have been improved if the writers had an idea of what it was, since that might lead to other things later that the audience could piece together as related. That's a very different argument from "they should've told us in that episode exactly what's going on", though.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I more or less enjoyed... most of Galactica throughout its run, largely because the strong acting, production design, direction, music and character moments made the slow dissolution of its 'plausible', 'gritty' world to ground those characters in forgiveable, but Season 3 after New Caprica was when the wheels came off and it was clear that the writers had run out of ideas. Season 4 was more enjoyable in my eyes because, in their desperation, the writers essentially began swinging for the dramatic fences every episode in a punch-drunk state, and they hit more than they missed by a good margin. In Season 4 they also finally stopped delta-ing out the meaningless 'oh shit what is going on here???' mysteries and largely kept to simply exploring the plots already in place and tying the hanging threads together, however scattershot they were (I am on a mixed metaphor wagontrain to the stars right now) and it made it more dramatically compelling.

I don't mind mysteries the likes of '33' because the explanation doesn't matter and there are a number of perfectly plausible explanations even if it did matter; all the meat of the story and its payoff was contained in the episode, and in fact 33 was probably Galactica's best episode over all of its seasons. And I personally thought the New Caprica arc, however shortened by budget concerns it was, was really gripping stuff where it was clear the writers were inspired and cared and were working to the best of their ability to explore this new setting for their show, and the one year gap gave them the breathing room to do this, to get the characters to this new interesting place in the story.

But 'They had a plan', the Opera House, the angels, Shelley Godfrey, etc. - in those cases, the show was clearly trying to create drama and excite interest not by doing interesting things in and of themselves or engaging us with their characters, but by dangling something behind the curtain and promising the viewer a rich payoff somewhere down the line, when really it was just Ron Moore writing checks he couldn't cash. And that is a fucking disease in writing, and it's lazy and cheap and terrible and makes me stop trusting either the writers or their world and it weakened the entire enterprise of what was otherwise the most ambitious and interesting televised live-action sci fi in ages.

[Stark]

There's certainly a distinction to be made between things that aren't given an explanation onscreen but could have any of a number or explanations (and it doesn't really matter which) and things happening that have no explanation and are largely included to be inexplicable. Mysteries are good, but if you miss the payoff that's not the audiences problem.

[lPeregrine]

I really fail to see how either of those wouldn't be inferior to the episode we got. Explaining everything openly to the audience (even while avoiding technobabble) isn't a sign of great writing.

I can understand the argument that it might have been improved if the writers had an idea of what it was, since that might lead to other things later that the audience could piece together as related. That's a very different argument from "they should've told us in that episode exactly what's going on", though.

Sure, I admit that it's not great writing (that's why I'm not a professional writer who got paid a lot of money for the idea), I'm just disputing the ridiculous idea that you either leave everything unexplained and bring in blatant plot devices whenever you "need" them, or give in to the fanboys and turn the show into endless technobabble.

[Themightytom]

Mightytom, I think someone already posted that quote, where it's shown that they made her came back just because it was kinda cool and not because they had any concrete idea of why or what it should mean. This is, I think, a great example of just flat out terrible writing. It might be excusable if the later follow up was rewarding or fulfilling, but obviously it wasn't. This is probably the real issue with the show plot wise; it's just Lost in space (lol) where the audience is left guessing about shit by the simple expedient of there actually being no explanation.

yeah that was Tucker, I quote failed, I was going to say something along those lines, RDM really jsut admitted on multiple occasions he was rudderless, he just described as "I was inspired by.." and "I really wanted to do something like this..."

I more or less enjoyed... most of Galactica throughout its run, largely because the strong acting, production design, direction, music and character moments made the slow dissolution of its 'plausible', 'gritty' world to ground those characters in forgiveable, .

You're definitely right, I mean seriously? I got a kick out of seeing Adama scarf noodles, toss his son a lighter while standing on a spaceship, and shave the brostache. Pilots with flight manuals, spaceships with toilets, even in the fourth season where Callie went behind the wall? Star Trek has carpetted Jeffries tubes for crying out loud and Picard had a picnic in one of their crawlways, you're not gonna see that shit on the Galactica. I think galactica lost touch with itself after a while.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I followed Bear McCreary's blog for a while and I remember in his description of the last episode he takes a small tangent from discussing his fantastic score for that episode to mention how much he liked Adama puking on himself a little while looking up at the stars in the flashback, because you would not see that happening to the Captain on another space show. Some people made fun of that, because puke, but I think I get what he was saying - aside from the fact that the dichotomy in the shot actually exemplifies Adama's character pretty well, there was always, to the end, a certain rawness to Galactica and its people that appealed to me, and it was another thing that kind of disappeared for most of season 3 but came back a bit in Season 4. I would say 'grit' except that obviously that term is totally toxic now, but it's appropriate - it extends from the scenes of people cutting themselves shaving and all the burry photos on the memorial wall in episode 1 to Gaeta mentioning off-handedly how he started smoking after the apocalypse in season 2 to the simple line of chalk down the hangar bay in the final episode. It balanced the fantastic with the mundane in a neat way, I thought.

[Crazedwraith]

I don't think praising BSG just for not being Star Trek is kind of a cop out myself.

Plus I can totally see Malcolm Reynolds or D'Argo pucking on themselves. Though D'Argo generally pucked on others so they could fly his genetically locked shuttle. (You want anti-trek, try Farscape where its perfectly acceptable to cut off your pilot's arm against his will to barter it)

And really, everyone gets up in arms about the rejecting tech part of the finale. But I couldn't stand the damn flashbacks. So Adama's a dyed-in-the-wool military man who's word is his bond. Starbuck and Adama are cheating scumbags. This is not need stuff, we know it already. And who the hell cares that Roslin almost banged one her students? I mean, NUA or Tucker or someone? What did that add to the story? Please?

[Spoonist]

This has me intrigued. Would you mind listing which unresolved plots remained after the time skip?

There was a couple of time skips in nBSG and each one had unresolved plot lines. The final one was just amazingly WTFesque. For actual lists, google it,there are hundreds of people with more time than me that put a lot of effort into writing huge WTF lists, especially for the final time skip.
Why? and But..? and Nooooooooooo! is in frequent use.

I didn't know that the tracking method used in "33" was seen as a character investment for the viewers. Once again, the tracking is a MacGuffin and is completely irrelevant other than to nerds who want to whet their appetite with useless technobabble rambling.

OK, let me try to explain it to you from a different angle.
The episode is called 33, the number is onscreen plenty of times, the number is used in dialog, etc. Its a key part of the episode as given to the viewer from the scenes. This creates an investment regardless of other factors.
We know from the episode that it is "known" that it is the Olympic Carrier that is the key, since 33 minutes after its delayed arrival of jump 237 the cylons appear. So the episode itself tells the viewer repeatedly that the number 33 is of significance.
To never use that again or even to have never had a "why" is crappy attitude versus the investment they have created for the viewer.
Its like introducing a new character with a lot of good story hooks and then never show that character again. It creates badwill and a loss of suspension. Hence, bad writing.
Your tangent on pro/con technobabble is completely moot, it doesn't matter.

But where you lost me here is the notion that they should bend over and write what the fans expected. I don't agree with fan service and never will. I think that's more lazy than anything mentioned in this thread.

How you could get that from what I wrote is very strange to me.
Nope, I didn't say that they should write what the fans expected. Instead I said that if you give a premise and then change that premise you are going to lose viewers. This since the audience you have at the moment are the ones you got by the original premise, and since the other audience who might like the new premise wasn't interested in the original one you have lost them to. Successful series have shown that you can build on the original premise, and unsuccessful series have shown that you can't change the orginal premise without hinting to it from the start.
Its about being consistent and true to your creation.
If the writers have the attitude that the current episode is more important than consistency then you are soon in plot hole hell.

I don't disregard the views here. I know they exist and I know that people have problems with the show. My problem is that they are not being defended well at all

Why do you think that other people should have to defend their view? Especially when its shared with the majority of posters, viewers, reviewers, etc?
If I said that "pornos usually have sucky acting" would you insist that I defend opinions like "most porn actresses suck"?

The "33" complaint is bogus, to me, because it's a MacGuffin and completely irrelevant.

Here is a hint, if several different posters after one another claim that it is relevant, and an equal number of posters but not necessarily the same claim that you don't get why it is relevant, then tries to explain exactly why they think it is relevant. Then don't you think that you should at least try to listen to their views instead of trying to repeat your mantra ad infinitum?
Couldn't it be so that you are simply not seeing something which most other see? That the same things that bug you in other parts of the series and what bugs others about the 33 thingie actually have a similar root cause, ie , the writing teams attitude versus their own universe.

I have always seen the show as a character study, from its very beginning, and I think that remained in a satisfying manner until the end.

Most would agree that the characters was a big part of what made the series good in the beginning. Most would disagree that the characters or their arcs remained satisfying or even adequate as the series continued, its usually rather along the lines of, why the fracking fuck did that character make that completely out of character choice?

I won't be responding for a while because I have two finals to prepare for. I hope you'll excuse my absence until at least Friday night as I am making a trek out of state after my last exam. My responses throughout the weekend will be sporadic as I am spending time with family.

No worries. Its not an important dialog for me.

[Scrib]

I don't think praising BSG just for not being Star Trek is kind of a cop out myself.

Plus I can totally see Malcolm Reynolds or D'Argo pucking on themselves. Though D'Argo generally pucked on others so they could fly his genetically locked shuttle. (You want anti-trek, try Farscape where its perfectly acceptable to cut off your pilot's arm against his will to barter it)

And really, everyone gets up in arms about the rejecting tech part of the finale. But I couldn't stand the damn flashbacks. So Adama's a dyed-in-the-wool military man who's word is his bond. Starbuck and Adama are cheating scumbags. This is not need stuff, we know it already. And who the hell cares that Roslin almost banged one her students? I mean, NUA or Tucker or someone? What did that add to the story? Please?

It's just an attempt to appeal to the idea that this was about the characters when it really had no meaning at all. Do that and you can wave off bad plotting decisions and shitty action or logic. It's not important how Starbuck got there because this is about the JOURNEY OKAY?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I don't think praising BSG just for not being Star Trek is kind of a cop out myself.

Plus I can totally see Malcolm Reynolds or D'Argo pucking on themselves. Though D'Argo generally pucked on others so they could fly his genetically locked shuttle. (You want anti-trek, try Farscape where its perfectly acceptable to cut off your pilot's arm against his will to barter it)

And really, everyone gets up in arms about the rejecting tech part of the finale. But I couldn't stand the damn flashbacks. So Adama's a dyed-in-the-wool military man who's word is his bond. Starbuck and Adama are cheating scumbags. This is not need stuff, we know it already. And who the hell cares that Roslin almost banged one her students? I mean, NUA or Tucker or someone? What did that add to the story? Please?

If you confuse what I'm trying to say about that shot in Galactica with the body humour in Farscape it's pretty clear that trying to explain what I meant would be useless to us both.

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah. I was being totes serious and legit here. And not just being silly about the 'in no other show would you see this' phrase.

[Gandalf]

Here's a hint-some of us want SciFi shows to be about ships in space and awesome battles and shooting things down, not heavy-handed social commentary or dysfunctional characters getting on each other's nerves.

But it's not as though nBSG was a pew pew laser show and then got all 9/11. It's like you're criticising a fridge for not being a car.

It's a TV show. Its purpose is to entertain me. If it doesn't do so, it failed, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Not a fan of news or educational programming?