Anakin vs. Ranma

[lgot]

Wait, the description of it is the hold/cold energy of a enemy's chi. He never used it in any other way. I do not think there is a chi in the saber, but there is the chi of Anakin.
Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

[SylasGaunt]

Darth_Sinji:

good you remember, I said that to make people remember that ranma can be hurt by that, so he can be hurt by a light saber.

You seem to be conveniently ignoring that this is the same series in which people have shown the ability to use a belt as a friggin' sword.

You seem to do not read the debate. Yogi is using, so we are arguing about that.

He is using it as a low end example. You seem to think that hit from Kuno is his limit.

I talked about the feathers also and you ignore it. And you accused me of using that as not fair, but forgot to notice others doing that. Hah...

Because others had already responded. Claiming he can be hurt by a simple feather doesn't work when this series has shown even low level fighters being able to enhance objects to a ridiculous degree (Kuno's Bokken, Ryouga's belt and bandannas)

Invalid ???? Those are Rumiko motivations. And Shampoo had no reason to do anything with Akane. She could kill akane then had Ranma free. that is all.

She would have killed Akane, likely upset Ranma (you don't win a husband over by killing somebody he's living with you know), and nevermind the mess that would have gotten her into with the authorities.

Rumiko do not wanted those weapons in her series.

Ignoring suspension of disbelief. What the author wants or does not want (or what you think they don't want) isn't a valid debate tactic. It's what is seen.

The characters do other illegal stuff, there is no such thing as hard to get to them and Rumiko could easily have weapons close to Kunou, Kodachi or the principal, without any problem if she wanted .

So because someone's done one illegal thing it must be easy for them to do another? I've run a stop sign before does that mean it must be easy for me to get ahold of a machinegun? Guns are very difficult to get ahold of in Japan, furthermore none of the Ranma cast has shown any connections with the sort of people you'd have to know to get them.

[SAMAS]

Wait, the description of it is the hold/cold energy of a enemy's chi. He never used it in any other way. I do not think there is a chi in the saber, but there is the chi of Anakin.
Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

Actually, according to Cologne, it is a simple temperature change. Akane even tried to use fire to help Ranma learn it, but it backfired when her clothes caught fire, too.

[SAMAS]

[Spoiler!]









In addition, in the Battle with Saffron, he pulled off a version of it using Akane's Dool-body to absorb some of the heat from Saffron's flames, and used that to pull it off.









END SPOILER

[Yogi]

Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

So, you're conceding the argument? Thanks!!

[Darth_Shinji]

Darth_Shinji:

Akane is able of all that and yet she is the worst fighter of all the main cast, probally only being up with Kodachi. And saying that only shows my point: Ranma can be defeated when he is hit by a good attack.

A good attack by a superhuman being that could prob be able to rip a normal human being limb from limb if she wanted too. She and every other marital artist on that show are a total class above normal human. You can not use her as an example that a good attack of another person could work on ranma when we don't know how that "good attack" would relate to her in the first place. Also remember everyone on that show that has more than one apperance is still training and fighting as the series progresses.

good you remember, I said that to make people remember that ranma can be hurt by that, so he can be hurt by a light saber.

My original post too you shows that many characters have shown the ability of turning CLOTH into metal and concrete cutting weapons. You do not know how more powerful those feathers were made in relation to Kuno's bokken that was able to cut thru trees and stone and then shatter on ranma's forearm.

I never said her punch was weak!

My mistake on that one. I was just trying to show while she is the weakest fighter she is still strong enought to hit people miles into the sky. Saying that she is proof that a good attack by a weaker person could hurt or injue ranma without knowing how the weaker person stacks up to akane in the first place. I mean, she herself prob could take on Chewie hth.

[lgot]

Sylas:

My good, You does not make any argument worth, do you ?

You seem to be conveniently ignoring that this is the same series in which people have shown the ability to use a belt as a friggin' sword.

You have to read the debate before giving those tiring opinions about nothing. There was a idea that Ranma could resist the damage of a ligthsaber and that to defeat him you would need to break down some protective energy around him.
If he can be hurt by the bokken, by the feathers – which are like knifes – he can be hurt by the lightsaber. Does not matter if Ryouga’s bandanas can cut wood, it is irrelevant if THERE IS more source of damage. One source if more than enough to show it. So get up:
Ranma can be hurt by a lightsaber. Why ? Because he can be hurt by other stuff. Does not matter if others fight can use ridiculous weapons (spatulas, bandanas, stuffed bears, feathers) as weapons, because the lightsaber is already a weapon and the person using it know how to cause damage with that as well.

She would have killed Akane, likely upset Ranma (you don't win a husband over by killing somebody he's living with you know), and nevermind the mess that would have gotten her into with the authorities.

LOL. Make me laugh. That is your worse argument ever! She was willing to kill Onna-Ranma which by all accounts lived in that same house and would get in a big mess with the authorities as well, for god sakes

Ignoring suspension of disbelief.

You still do not understand what Suspension of Disbelief does.
It works for you to accept as “real” a world with punches that take you into orbit, for a world where police does not act when a bunch of teenagers destroy several houses fighting, all that. And all that because the author wants.
And They are willing to kill, they just do not do it because a lot of plot devices, not because they are unable to kill.

So because someone's done one illegal thing it must be easy for them to do another?

YOU are the one that said they can not get it because it is “illegal” and just showed they do a lot of illegal things without problem, so that is not a reason that stop them!

Samas:

Could you quote the manga sequence of that fight ?

Yogi:

If you look up, my only argument have been that in the second scenario, Ranma would have problem with getting in close range with Anakin because of the lightsaber range.
When you acted to provide a situation to him to attack far away, you are accepting my arguments as well. Which is not a problem to anyone…

Darth Sinji:

Also, I never claimed that “because Akane can defeat him, other people can”. I claimed that he can be defeated because he was defeated during the series by many , Akane among then. If you look up, people claimed the DBZ forum stuff here, which would make no sense. That was answer to that.

[Yogi]

Yogi:

If you look up, my only argument have been that in the second scenario, Ranma would have problem with getting in close range with Anakin because of the lightsaber range.

Scenario #2 is "Both have Lightsabers". Not that it matters.

When you acted to provide a situation to him to attack far away, you are accepting my arguments as well. Which is not a problem to anyone…

Only in your mind.
Saying "Here's another way for Ranma to win, this time without even having to do much." is not the same as saying "This is the ONLY way he can win."

Why do we even bother with you anymore . . .


Try listen to logic once in a while.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Lets observe: Anakin cannot block lightning, Anakin is hotheaded, Anakin is overly arrogant and angry.

Ranma moves as fast as lightning, Ranma can use Hiryuu Shoten Ha, Ranma is waving at Anakin Skywalker: Lost in Space from the giant tornado that flung Anakin up there.... NEXT.

[SylasGaunt]

Sylas:
You have to read the debate before giving those tiring opinions about nothing. There was a idea that Ranma could resist the damage of a ligthsaber and that to defeat him you would need to break down some protective energy around him.
If he can be hurt by the bokken, by the feathers – which are like knifes – he can be hurt by the lightsaber.

A knife does not typically carve through a concrete wall now does it?

Does not matter if Ryouga’s bandanas can cut wood, it is irrelevant if THERE IS more source of damage. One source if more than enough to show it. So get up:

Ryouga's heavily enhanced bandannas.

Ranma can be hurt by a lightsaber. Why ? Because he can be hurt by other stuff. Does not matter if others fight can use ridiculous weapons (spatulas, bandanas, stuffed bears, feathers) as weapons, because the lightsaber is already a weapon and the person using it know how to cause damage with that as well.

Except that Anakin cannot enhance his weapon with his ki like the Ranma fighters can.

LOL. Make me laugh. That is your worse argument ever! She was willing to kill Onna-Ranma which by all accounts lived in that same house and would get in a big mess with the authorities as well, for god sakes

Except for the fact that:

1.) Her pursuit of Onna-ranma began before she encountered Ranma in male form.

2.) Unlike Akane Shampoo has to kill Onna-ranma.

Killing someone close to your only lead on your target isn't a good idea since if you get booted out of the country before you kill them.

You still do not understand what Suspension of Disbelief does.
It works for you to accept as “real” a world with punches that take you into orbit, for a world where police does not act when a bunch of teenagers destroy several houses fighting, all that. And all that because the author wants.

The fact that author wants or doesn't want is irrelavent. It is accepting the world as we see it as reality. Claiming something doesn't appear because the author doesn't want it is like claiming 'because God wanted it like this'.

And They are willing to kill, they just do not do it because a lot of plot devices, not because they are unable to kill.

Except we have seen someone killed.

YOU are the one that said they can not get it because it is “illegal” and just showed they do a lot of illegal things without problem, so that is not a reason that stop them!

You're the one who claimed they could get them while providing no proof that they had the slightest clue where to go about getting them because they are a very difficult item to obtain.

[lgot]

Yogi:

Only in your mind.
Saying "Here's another way for Ranma to win, this time without even having to do much." is not the same as saying "This is the ONLY way he can win."

Expect you have been unable to provide any evidence that Ranma can come close enough and avoid the ligthsaber expect by the amazing claim he moves fasts as he hits, even if it is illogical, there is no evidence in the manga for this and actually, normal people can track Ranma moves, what to say of a jedi.

And funny, a fanboy from where I come is someone that can not accept any limitation to his “favorite characters”. You painted a invincible Ranma. You act as a Fanboy. Not me.

Chaos burnflame:

Pleeeasse, From Moving like Lighting is just a figure of speech, He does not turn in light. And wait, He hits that fast, His body movement is enhanced from human level, but is not that fast.

Sylas:

Except that Anakin cannot enhance his weapon with his ki like the Ranma fighters can.

What part of the evidence that Ranma can be hurt by weapons and giving a bigger number of weapons to hurt him only help me you did not get ?
And please, this is stupid. Jedis use the Force to enhance their fighting skill as well.

And please, I will not comment Shampoo’s theory. She does not care for the authorities. And she had to kill Akane as well, for the same reason. Amazon laws hold that the rival face each other in combat and the best one get the husband.

Except we have seen someone killed.

Yeah, the problem is: YOU are the one that claimed that there is no murderous rampage among ranma’s characters. Now ,there is ?

You're the one who claimed they could get them while providing no proof that they had the slightest clue where to go about getting them because they are a very difficult item to obtain.

No, I said the reason you gave are lame.

[Yogi]

Yogi:Expect you have been unable to provide any evidence that Ranma can come close enough and avoid the ligthsaber expect by the amazing claim he moves fasts as he hits, even if it is illogical, there is no evidence in the manga for this and actually, normal people can track Ranma moves, what to say of a jedi.

You missed the scene about Kuno, right? Look up a few posts and note that

1) Ranma blitzed Kuno.
2) Kuno swings hard enough to slice through concrete.
3) In order to impart enough energy, the blade has to be traveling many times faster than normal sword swings.
4) Anakin has never swung the sword that fast.

Also, you have no evidence to say that Anakin can deflect a Hiryu Shouten Ha. As mensioned before, thanks for the concession.

[lgot]

1 - Even that "blitzed"kunou hit him. Anakin shows much more capacity of fighting, not say "perception" than Kunou, any given day.
2 - Lightsaber can slice a person with little effort. Everytime we see a litghtsaber hitting someone or somethign we see the effect and its very good and enough to won a fight against Ranma
3 -Lightsabers can cut better than knifes, bokkens or mostly else. There is no reason to believe Ranma have ability to resist the lightsaber as it was posted here.
4 - Anakin ? That jedi people who can deflect back laser bolts shoot from short distance ? wait , sequence of laser bolts, they can not swing the saber very fast or fast enough to hit Ranma ?

Of course, the same way that I have no problem with the jedi mind tricks "you are not seeing me" or any of those stuff that a jedi can do and Ranma can not resist also.

[Yogi]

1 - Even that "blitzed"kunou hit him. Anakin shows much more capacity of fighting, not say "perception" than Kunou, any given day.

You know, Ranma gets inside Kuno's husrd TWICE and each time could have hit him, but didn't. Kuno never actually TOUCHED Ranma with his sword, something Annakin would have to do.

2 - Lightsaber can slice a person with little effort. Everytime we see a litghtsaber hitting someone or somethign we see the effect and its very good and enough to won a fight against Ranma
3 -Lightsabers can cut better than knifes, bokkens or mostly else. There is no reason to believe Ranma have ability to resist the lightsaber as it was posted here.

I was actually talking about dodging it. It's like this. A "normal" blade can cut through concrete. That means it must be moving very fast fast than Anakin can swing his own sword.

4 - Anakin ? That jedi people who can deflect back laser bolts shoot from short distance ? wait , sequence of laser bolts, they can not swing the saber very fast or fast enough to hit Ranma ?

No, Anakin never swung his saber so fast that all we see was a blur.

Of course, the same way that I have no problem with the jedi mind tricks "you are not seeing me" or any of those stuff that a jedi can do and Ranma can not resist also.

Ranma was able to stand in a group of cats, holding a packet of fish sausages, without bolting. If you can not figure out why this is a case of extreme willpower then you have not read the series.

Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

Concession accepted.

[lgot]

Kuno never actually TOUCHED Ranma with his sword, something Annakin would have to do.

I supposed that Anakin would have to touch him yes. I thought that was something that we are arguing if he could or not do that...

That means it must be moving very fast fast than Anakin can swing his own sword.

You do not consider also the reckless tatic of Kunou, who gave Ranma a lot of openings. Not a great strategy.

No, Anakin never swung his saber so fast that all we see was a blur.

Ranma moves about 3,4 times faster than a human, Anakin for sure can hit someone under that speed.

Ranma was able to stand in a group of cats, holding a packet of fish sausages, without bolting. If you can not figure out why this is a case of extreme willpower then you have not read the series.

The simple fact he have that fear and lost control of himself in the presence of cats already shows his will is not so great.
Also, You forget the rest of the series, when Ranma was possessed or enchated a good number of times.
Also, Rumiko clear describes Kunou as a strong willed character, Ranma she says he was "Indecise, Sly, stubborn".

[Yogi]

I supposed that Anakin would have to touch him yes. I thought that was something that we are arguing if he could or not do that...

Kuno can't catch him. Kuno is faster than Anakin.

You do not consider also the reckless tatic of Kunou, who gave Ranma a lot of openings. Not a great strategy.

Prove that Kuno's attack was reckless. Anakin assumes an extremely vulnerable position during his duel with Dooku, which is traditionally used only because the weight of the sword will add to the strength of the strike (of course, since the Lightsaber is mass-less . . .)

Ranma moves about 3,4 times faster than a human, Anakin for sure can hit someone under that speed.

And he has done so, when?

The simple fact he have that fear and lost control of himself in the presence of cats already shows his will is not so great.

Does the word "Neko-ken" mean anything to you? You seem to have frogotten about the training involved (or more like, you never knew.)

Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

Concession accepted. BTW, to any Mod that may be reading this, how stupid do you have to be to VI yourself?

[lgot]

Kuno can't catch him. Kuno is faster than Anakin.

Kunou's movement is not fast than Anakin.
Plus Kunou hit Ranma. Does not matter if it was the air preasure, Kunou hit was mean to hit that same way.

Prove that Kuno's attack was reckless.

Kunou only attacked, over and over, without thinking a single second. He does not stop to think, and that was enemy he did not knew.

And he has done so, when?

You claim that Anakin reflexes can not deal with a speed 3,4 times bigger than human ? That same little boy who won a pod racer ? Oh, yeah, he and jedi can only cope with normal human speed, Yogi.

Does the word "Neko-ken" mean anything to you?

You are so smart, uh ? Does the Neko-ken means that Ranma have no fear ? Justify it ? No, It only tells a weekness in Ranma's will. Does not matter if he got it from a extreme sittuation, He still have it. That is all that matters.

BTW, to any Mod that may be reading this, how stupid do you have to be to VI yourself?

As soon they noticed you said he moves as fasts as he punches even if he have special technique to do that and not to move.

[Yogi]

Kunou's movement is not fast than Anakin.
Plus Kunou hit Ranma. Does not matter if it was the air preasure, Kunou hit was mean to hit that same way.

Kuno can hit without actually touching. Anakin needs to touch. Which part of that can you NOT understand?

Kunou only attacked, over and over, without thinking a single second. He does not stop to think, and that was enemy he did not knew.

True, but how does that decrease his skill in any way?

You claim that Anakin reflexes can not deal with a speed 3,4 times bigger than human ? That same little boy who won a pod racer ? Oh, yeah, he and jedi can only cope with normal human speed, Yogi.

You claim that
1) Ranma caps out at 3-4x normal speed.
2) Anakin can tag people at 3-4x normal speed.
Time for you to, I don't know, JUSTIFY your claims?

You are so smart, uh ? Does the Neko-ken means that Ranma have no fear ? Justify it ? No, It only tells a weekness in Ranma's will. Does not matter if he got it from a extreme sittuation, He still have it. That is all that matters.

Look, unless Anakin has a magical ability to conjure cats, Ranma's weakness is not going to be a factor here. What that feat DOES tell us though, is that even when confronted with the worst fear of his life, Ranma still stands his ground. Not weak minded.

Lets suppose Ranma can make the "dark side" of Anakin go to the surface to use it...imagine the hurricane of that...

Thank you SO MUCH for the Concession.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Ranma was in a whole room full of cats WITHOUT going into Nekoken. Its only until a giant tiger was brought in that he snapped, so I think that speaks VOLUMES about Ranma's will.

[lgot]

Kuno can hit without actually touching. Anakin needs to touch. Which part of that can you NOT understand?

I have yet to understand what does it have to do with the Skill of Ranma to dodge or be possible to be hurt . But this is ridiculous. It is irrelevant this argument about Kunou.

True, but how does that decrease his skill in any way?

I dunno yogi, Where have I ever said that decrease his skills ? I claimed that reduced his ability to keep defense.

You claim that
1) Ranma caps out at 3-4x normal speed.
2) Anakin can tag people at 3-4x normal speed.
Time for you to, I don't know, JUSTIFY your claims?

Anakin can deflect laser shots from short range, like any jedi. That means, his reflexes are good enough to react that fast, so it is good for him to tag more faster humans.

Look, unless Anakin has a magical ability to conjure cats,

I think that is funny, because you are the one THAT Brought that example to show Ranma’s will, Not me. So you should be smart enough to think that is about Ranma will, not magic cats.
Ranma’s lost control of himself, OFTENWHILE, with simple cats. That say much.

Actually .I am wasting time with your running around this. They do not show anything. You do not bring any evidence to the points:

1 – Ranma could noit be hurt by lightsabers, Even if in all the series he never showed any power or immunity to any kind of weapon, avoiding them even if Kasumi is holding those. Actually, cats are funny, because Cats can scratch his face and cats do not destroy walls. Please, show me in the manga any evidence of Ranma’s immunity (you may mean partial immunity, but works also) That is your claim show it.
2 – Show also Any evidence in the manga of a possible power to resist the power of the force by ranma (yeah, a dude who is possessed , enchanted around a bit) . Please show it.

You have done nothing of that. Please do.

[consequences]

Show how Ranma won't simply chi blast the ground at Anakin's feet, shredding him with the shrapnel.
Show how Ranma won't create a rapid hot spiral with one arm, before punching through it with the cold second arm, creating a hiryu shoten ha concentrated enough to puree anakin's chest.
Show how overcoming being in the same room without immediately freaking out as something that you were mercilessly mauled by at least half a dozen times as a small child is evidence of a weak will.
Show how Ranma, with speed and strength superior to Kuno, won't just throw a hundred air pressure punches in three seconds from ten feet away.
show how you are not a fanboy, grasing at straws without providing calcs.(hint, providing calcs will help disprove this.)

[lgot]

I wonder Consequences, if you think I have to prove things I have not stated...
Now. Blasting energy against a Jedi is not the best way of attacking one, right ?
Now, I never Said it was, And It is not a evidence of strong will as well. If You are able to read, You will say that I said his loss of control because his fear shows a weakness. Simple as that. Saying how it happneed does not change a bit.
Now, Why would I show anything about kunou ? Yogi and I talked about a specific fight,and what he did and I have no argument of How Ranma would win here. Graps reality
Show me you are not a fanboy. Wait you have no prove or that and you claim that
Wait, You have showed Any calc ? No. So what you accuse me ? I mean, someone that would argue that Nabiki blackmail people then to give money back, to show some moral lesson, withou any evidence, any logic, one of the most stupid things i ever saw and totally going against any cannonical evidence of Nabiki's behaviador is pointing fingers ? And in such mindless way...

[consequences]

Dipshit, the energy beam has to be the width of the lightsaber or less.
Actually no, I can make a case psychologically for that fear being so severe that Ranma can't even muster fear for almost anything else. Aside from the fact that his chi blast is based off of confidence, something you don't have with a weak will.
Bitch, if you read the start of the thread, you would have gotten a summary of most of the relevant calcs, sorry I can't quote to the second, but the Dvds are a bit out of my price range.And my copy of the unedited original japanese VHS tapes was a bit too bulky to pack in my one personal bag for military deployment.
And if you don't like the way I'm treating you, too bad, earn better treatment or cope.

[lgot]

You did a lot of calcs ? You did one or two and the rest you just used examples of the anime.
I do not care if you are a idiot, I did not complained about your ways but about your stupidity.

Dipshit, the energy beam has to be the width of the lightsaber or less.

And which special move he would use to do that ?

Actually no, I can make a case psychologically for that fear being so severe that Ranma can't even muster fear for almost anything else.

Do the case you want, Your morom. It still a weakness of Ranma. And do what you want, Rumiko Takashi describes ranma as indecise, sly and stubborn boy. When she describes Kunou as strongwilled. You still claim otherwise, you know the characters better than herself.

Now, all this talking is because you still also unable to provide any evidence about Ranma's immunity to light saber and jedi's mind tricks ? Or have you any calcs about this also...

[Yogi]

I have yet to understand what does it have to do with the Skill of Ranma to dodge or be possible to be hurt . But this is ridiculous. It is irrelevant this argument about Kunou.

The fact that he can dodge attacks made by a swordsman who doesn't need to touch him to hurt him speaks quite a lot for his dodging skills.

I dunno yogi, Where have I ever said that decrease his skills ? I claimed that reduced his ability to keep defense.

Technically, defense IS a significant part in being a skilled fighter, but I digress . . .
Very well then, show that it decreases his defense.

Anakin can deflect laser shots from short range, like any jedi. That means, his reflexes are good enough to react that fast, so it is good for him to tag more faster humans.

So, you have shown that Anakin can tag blaster shots (not technically laser shots, as blasters are STL) which is true. From this you claim that he can tag "more faster humans" which is gramatically incorrect. Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean
1) Anakin can tag things moving faster than he is. Question is, how much faster? Does "No Limits Fallacy" mean anything to you?
2) Anakin can tag fast moving humans. Again, how fast is fast, and is it faster than how fast Ranma can move?

You have answered nothing.

I think that is funny, because you are the one THAT Brought that example to show Ranma’s will, Not me. So you should be smart enough to think that is about Ranma will, not magic cats.
Ranma’s lost control of himself, OFTENWHILE, with simple cats. That say much.

ROFL!!!

For those just joining us, the Neko-Ken training technique was done to Ranma when he was a small child. He was wrapped in fish sausages and tossed into a pit full of starving cats. Repeat until boy's mind snaps. While he has a great fear of cats (as anyone would) his willppower helps him overcome it. Unfortunatly for Anakin, he can't prey on Ranma's weakness, and still has to contend with his willpower.

Actually .I am wasting time with your running around this. They do not show anything. You do not bring any evidence to the points:

1 – Ranma could noit be hurt by lightsabers, Even if in all the series he never showed any power or immunity to any kind of weapon, avoiding them even if Kasumi is holding those. Actually, cats are funny, because Cats can scratch his face and cats do not destroy walls. Please, show me in the manga any evidence of Ranma’s immunity (you may mean partial immunity, but works also) That is your claim show it.

Bokken broken on his arm, the same one that slashes through concrete with ease.

2 – Show also Any evidence in the manga of a possible power to resist the power of the force by ranma (yeah, a dude who is possessed , enchanted around a bit) . Please show it.

You have done nothing of that. Please do.

Force Push, Pull, Choke, and other forms of Telekenesis: Ranma has gotten kicked over the horizen, been blasted to hell and back, pounded on by various martial artists, and he lives through all of it. That has to be a pretty strong choke.

Mind Trick: See aforementioned "Room full of cats" feat.