I apologize for my words about the Agents in Matrix Reloaded

[Darth_Shinji]

Actaully after seeing just last night I have to disagree with Smith being sub-par. The upgrads never hit Neo, just couaght his attack once. For all we know Smith is just as good as those Agents and it justs takes that many to actaully hit Neo. Also even if they didn't die the first two were not up and fighting before the third who lasted longer than the other two was beaten.... Agent Smiths were up and going again during that same time frame.

[Omega-13]

Actaully after seeing just last night I have to disagree with Smith being sub-par. The upgrads never hit Neo, just couaght his attack once. For all we know Smith is just as good as those Agents and it justs takes that many to actaully hit Neo. Also even if they didn't die the first two were not up and fighting before the third who lasted longer than the other two was beaten.... Agent Smiths were up and going again during that same time frame.

I am getting the movie on tape in a few days (yay) so I will be able to watch more closely, however I also saw it just recently, night before last, *second time I saw it*
and those 3 agents got a few hits in on Neo, infact one of them punched him right in the face

[Omega-13]

Actually just to add to that, those 3 Agents, while you are correct, ,mostly caught and or deflected his attacks (obviously not all of them)

they also caught him arm in mid swing and through him towards the lightpole.

Only three of them, the smiths were cannon fodder, coming at him by the dozens, and he was still untouched for the most part,

It was rediculous really

[Darth_Shinji]

Actually just to add to that, those 3 Agents, while you are correct, ,mostly caught and or deflected his attacks (obviously not all of them)

they also caught him arm in mid swing and through him towards the lightpole.

Only three of them, the smiths were cannon fodder, coming at him by the dozens, and he was still untouched for the most part,

It was rediculous really

In the begining when there was five or six smiths he managed to hit Neo a few times. Thats 6 to 3 that got hits in and lasted alot longer (Even before he called in more Smiths).

[neoolong]

Subpar to upgraded agents. So he's still pretty cool.

Ahh, but can't he like upgrade himself to them too? I mean smith is my favorite character, he must rock, or else I shall become terribly dissapointed

He'd have to find a patch.

[Slartibartfast]

I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.

Maybe the Agents dodge bullets by running a "Dodgebullets.EXE" or something like that, rather then being just really fast.

I have a theory for the easy-to-dodge bullets vs the hard-to-dodge swords and punches:

Think about the amount of programs needed to handle one, and the amount of programs to handle the other. You have a lot of programs for the bullet: one or more programs for the actual physical mechanism of the pistol. One to compute a trajectory for the bullet and such, and then the bullet goes along this path, which becomes predictable.

On the other hand (no pun intended) you have a sword, which you swing with your arm. You, being either a human being or a sentient program, arbitrarily decide the trajectory you're going to give the sword, which is just an inert object, at most has programs to calculate weight, air resistance, and maybe ability to cut thru stuff, but doesn't move on its own. This makes it harder for agents to track and predict its movement, since it isn't "public domain" like all the other physics programs and its output isn't accessible to anyone who's looking.

[Slartibartfast]

By the way the only time the agent is "cut" with the sword is when he's distracted (same with Smith's hand). After that I think he only takes a little nick to his face. When they dodge bullets, they see it coming a mile away. Even in the first movie an agent didn't have time to react at point blank range. I think they are just slow to make decisions.

[Slartibartfast]

This is such a crock of shit, its based on light illunination and the speed of helicopter rotors, lol
this is a fine case of OVER examination where someone is so blind, that they are taking the movie out of context.

So when Johnson was on the top of the hood, ,and morph emptied an entire clip at him, why didn't see see the bullets if they slowed down? He was only 3 feet away, he would have had to slow those bullets down to a snails pace

I don’t even know what damn rotors people are talking about. In the Matrix when we see the agent dodge bullets the helo rotors are not even turning, while the later minigun action has no bullet dodging at all and the only time we see the rotors is just slow motion.

Neo was shooting at their legs. Everyone knows that Agents can only dodge from the waist up

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'd love to see what happens when Neo gets a hold of a Spas-12 and uses that instead.

The positions the agent will try to get in will be unseen since the first misprint of the Karma Sutra.

[Slartibartfast]

Actually, on the Agents abilities, does anyone else think they are play balanced? Strong enough to be unbeatable by normal humans despite inbuilt imperfections, but not enough to take on the One.

The agents, as programmes should never miss their target. They should never run out of ammo (as the gun is created from thin air when they take over a person, the ammo should be never-ending), they should be able to block any incoming attack as even Neo cannot move faster than the Matrix can render him, therefore the Agents should be able to match him.

I disagree. Every time they "change" something (or whatever) there's a strain in the Matrix, like the deja-vu feeling or the readings on the agensts or whatever. Every time they take over a person, they create a new person or something, with physical objects (a fresh clip of ammo, unbroken glasses, a new tie). With a never-ending supply of bullets, the Matrix would be producing objects of thin air every time a bullet is fired, and it could mess things up - mess with the other programs that are trying to keep consistency like the one that governs the laws of "physics".

They SHOULD be able to only reappear certain things, like a new pistol or whatever, but maybe this thing needs some recharging and resources and they'd rather only do it when necessary?

[Slartibartfast]

Subpar to upgraded agents. So he's still pretty cool.

Ahh, but can't he like upgrade himself to them too? I mean smith is my favorite character, he must rock, or else I shall become terribly dissapointed

Another Revolutions teaser theory: the final, stronger, faster Smith is the one in that human's brain.

[Omega-13]

Actually just to add to that, those 3 Agents, while you are correct, ,mostly caught and or deflected his attacks (obviously not all of them)

they also caught him arm in mid swing and through him towards the lightpole.

Only three of them, the smiths were cannon fodder, coming at him by the dozens, and he was still untouched for the most part,

It was rediculous really

In the begining when there was five or six smiths he managed to hit Neo a few times. Thats 6 to 3 that got hits in and lasted alot longer (Even before he called in more Smiths).

The Agents didn't die when they fought Neo,
1. we didn't see them die
2. we didn't hear a fizzle from their bodies
3. we didn't see the flash of light associated with killed agents
4. neo flew away about 3 seconds after he kicked the last agent the lampost

all indications is that they did not die

[Darth_Shinji]

Actually just to add to that, those 3 Agents, while you are correct, ,mostly caught and or deflected his attacks (obviously not all of them)

they also caught him arm in mid swing and through him towards the lightpole.

Only three of them, the smiths were cannon fodder, coming at him by the dozens, and he was still untouched for the most part,

It was rediculous really

In the begining when there was five or six smiths he managed to hit Neo a few times. Thats 6 to 3 that got hits in and lasted alot longer (Even before he called in more Smiths).

The Agents didn't die when they fought Neo,
1. we didn't see them die
2. we didn't hear a fizzle from their bodies
3. we didn't see the flash of light associated with killed agents
4. neo flew away about 3 seconds after he kicked the last agent the lampost

all indications is that they did not die

Yes but I already said even if they didn't die they didn't get back up in the same time frame the Smiths did. If it was three smiths the first two would of been up by the time Neo hit the third one into the lampost.

[Joe Momma]

Do not forget, they were also much stronger, when Neo said "agents are coming' the reinforced steel door deformed several inches, and knuckle marks were scene from the Agent. Later the roof of the car was ripped off with a simple back hand. In the first film, it took smith a few seconds to get Morphs hands off his neck, so I don't think Morph is as strong as thompson or johnson...
just something to think about

I'm not sure the new Agents' upgrades included much (if at all) greater strength. Smith did punch through the corner of a concrete support during his fight with Neo. It's possible that he was restraining himself somewhat with Morpheus, since he needed Morpheus alive to get the Zion mainframe codes from him.

-- Joe Momma

[Omega-13]

In the begining when there was five or six smiths he managed to hit Neo a few times. Thats 6 to 3 that got hits in and lasted alot longer (Even before he called in more Smiths).

The Agents didn't die when they fought Neo,
1. we didn't see them die
2. we didn't hear a fizzle from their bodies
3. we didn't see the flash of light associated with killed agents
4. neo flew away about 3 seconds after he kicked the last agent the lampost

all indications is that they did not die

Yes but I already said even if they didn't die they didn't get back up in the same time frame the Smiths did. If it was three smiths the first two would of been up by the time Neo hit the third one into the lampost.

Fighting 20 guys and fighting 3 guys is entirely different. Neo had to react quick and fast, with extremely fast strikes just to keep the smiths away from him. When he fought the 3 Agents, he could put more 'ummff' into each hit, so giving them more damage.

[Omega-13]

Do not forget, they were also much stronger, when Neo said "agents are coming' the reinforced steel door deformed several inches, and knuckle marks were scene from the Agent. Later the roof of the car was ripped off with a simple back hand. In the first film, it took smith a few seconds to get Morphs hands off his neck, so I don't think Morph is as strong as thompson or johnson...
just something to think about

I'm not sure the new Agents' upgrades included much (if at all) greater strength. Smith did punch through the corner of a concrete support during his fight with Neo. It's possible that he was restraining himself somewhat with Morpheus, since he needed Morpheus alive to get the Zion mainframe codes from him.

-- Joe Momma

We know something was upgraded,
we know that the speed was because of the bullet dodging,
and punching through concrete is a hell of a lot easier than bending steel like they did
Concrete is rated at about 9,000 PSI
where as metal is anywhere from 80,000 to 250,000 PSI

[Joe Momma]

I'm not sure the new Agents' upgrades included much (if at all) greater strength. Smith did punch through the corner of a concrete support during his fight with Neo.

and punching through concrete is a hell of a lot easier than bending steel like they did
Concrete is rated at about 9,000 PSI
where as metal is anywhere from 80,000 to 250,000 PSI

Good point!

Here's something that caught my attention looking at all of the superspeed/blurring scenes. In every case (at least in the movies -- I haven't seen the Animatrix yet) everyone who starts moving in a blur doesn't move their feet.

When Neo is fighting Morpheus and begins to blur, he remains standing on the same spot. Ditto in his final fight with Smith at the end of the first movie. When Neo dodges the Agent's gunfire even though he falls back his feet remain flat on the ground until after he slows down again.

In both the movies when an Agent dodges bullets (the Agent on the rooftop in The Matrix, Agent Johnson on the car hood in Reloaded) they move their upper bodies back and forth but their feet remain stationary. Smith uses the same blur effect once in his first fight with Neo, but only when Neo is leaning stunned against a wall so Smith can throw a bunch of body blows without moving.

With that being the case, I'm wondering if moving in bullet dodging mode requires the subject to be "locked down" to whatever surface he's standing on. It seems to be the case in every instance that we see someone blur and it explains why it isn't used more often.

It would be less than useless in most hand-to-hand fights because you'd need to move (explaining why it was only used once, when Neo was momentarily cornered against a wall). Perhaps part of the reason they couldn't use it to dodge the minigun was that they were too busy trying to move into position to shoot back and they couldn't move and do the superspeed macarena at the same time.

Is this a viable theory or have I missed something?

-- Joe Momma