nBSG : "Home"

[Knife]

The human resistence said to Starbuck they've raided military cache's and stores. That said, there is no reason why all those weapons couldn't be military.

Even modern militarys have different weapons for different situations. The Colonial Marines have atleast two different rifles they carry as standard, not to mention the two distinct pistols in the fleet.

Even then, it is quite possible that Starbuck and Helo stopped off at 'Caprica's gun barn' on their way out of the city.

[StarshipTitanic]

I know nothing about the weapons the show has used, so I can't debate that point. Of course, you seemed to gloss over the fact that the unified Colonial military is a recent invention.

Either way, looking at the human resistance, a heft number of those guns have to be civilian. Especialy when you consider the number of people with weapons training.

Anders told Starbuck that his group was composed of vacationers and a few survivalists. The survivalists could have trained the others, and have even had illegal weapons to begin with. Remember Leoben's cover story from the pilot?

Everything we are seeing indicates that civilian ownership of weapons is perfectly legit.

That wasn't your claim, your claim was military-grade weaponry is legal. Except you just pointed out that the stuff carried by the resistance and Starbuck isn't really military-grade. Changing your position?

The grenade launcher for the Kobol team makes that even more clear.

Wasn't the CGIed effect more indicative of a rocket? I'm going to rewatch to find that out sometime tonight. But anyway, that weapon could have been distributed by the Galactica or stolen. I see no reason to assume the government allows civilians that kind of weaponry when places like Saggitera exist (I know I couldn't have spelt that correctly).

[Alyeska]

That wasn't your claim, your claim was military-grade weaponry is legal. Except you just pointed out that the stuff carried by the resistance and Starbuck isn't really military-grade. Changing your position?

My point is indeed that military grade weaponry is legal. The rather varried weapons used by the resistance were almost entirely military grade, but extremely varried. More so then any traditional military. Furthermore the use of the grenade launcher (grenades, rockets, whatever) by use of civilians without any apparent discomfort by the part of military personel (Helo, Starbuck, or Apollo) also indicates this.

[Akaramu Shinja]

Fuck off. I'm not attacking you.

That doesn't address the issue of you being wrong. You can't make up things like "the only reason these ships are there" when it's obvious that the colonials had no choice in who managed to survive.

Well if you consider statements from the shows producers to be conjecture...

Where are these statements?

Ron Moore has stated that the fleet has industrial vesels capable of parts replacement and potentialy even capable of producing replacement Vipers on a limited basis.

Even if what you say about his quote is true, it's obviously they haven't addressed the issue in the plot, and until they do, one cannot assume (this is what you're doing, even though you state them as facts, it's called assuming) they're already in production of military parts/vipers and already doing "periodic" mining. There is no basis for this other than a quote from Moore I hope you intend to show us.

That they are considered valuable fleet assets kinda shows they did something.

Because it's valuable doesn't mean it's being used "periodically" as you say. Nukes are valuable, does this mean we throw them around willy nilly? I'm sure this is a logical fallacy, but I am too lazy to look it up.

The Galactica blew up the refined Tillium ore. They had to go mine for the raw stuff on their own.

Conceeded. It's still not periodic mining though. Two cases. Two.

[StarshipTitanic]

My point is indeed that military grade weaponry is legal.

Except:

Given the weapons Starbuck had in her Hummer on Caprica, civilian ownership of weapons of military grade is legal.

But when you consider the sheer number of weapon types seen, almost all of them "military grade", civilian ownership is the most logical explination.

The weapons that Starbuck and Helo had don't really match what we have seen from the Colonial Military...The weapons that Starbuck and Helo had were pretty damned basic.

The "pretty damn basic" portion is throwing me off. Do you mean that they're military grade, but inexplicably missing other military grade equipment, like better optics?

More so then any traditional military.

Except I just pointed out that there had been 12 separate militaries a little over 40 years previously and there is a black market for buying military-grade equipment stored in government facilities. How do you reconcile these facts?

[Alyeska]

Where are these statements?

Mentioned in previous BSG discussion and it was said this information came from Ron Moore. Probably a pod cast or web log by him.

Even if what you say about his quote is true, it's obviously they haven't addressed the issue in the plot, and until they do, one cannot assume (this is what you're doing, even though you state them as facts, it's called assuming) they're already in production of military parts/vipers and already doing "periodic" mining. There is no basis for this other than a quote from Moore I hope you intend to show us.

I was repeating what I had heard from others.

Conceeded. It's still not periodic mining though. Two cases. Two.

Over the span of two months they were forced to mine twice. Thats more then infrequent usage.

[Akaramu Shinja]

Mentioned in previous BSG discussion and it was said this information came from Ron Moore. Probably a pod cast or web log by him.

Direct me, it's up to you to back a claim up. Burden of proof and all that.

I was repeating what I had heard from others.

Of course.

Over the span of two months they were forced to mine twice. Thats more then infrequent usage.

Main Entry: pe·ri·od·ic
Pronunciation: "pir-E-'ä-dik
Function: adjective
1 : occurring or recurring at regular intervals

So nope. Not periodic. Are you now claiming that they have only done it twice, as opposed to your previous hint that they've been doing it behind the scenes? Nice dodge.

[Alyeska]

Direct me, it's up to you to back a claim up. Burden of proof and all that.

Word of mouth doesn't work like that and you already knew it. Your being an ass trying to prove a point now.

Main Entry: pe·ri·od·ic
Pronunciation: "pir-E-'ä-dik
Function: adjective
1 : occurring or recurring at regular intervals

So nope. Not periodic. Are you now claiming that they have only done it twice, as opposed to your previous hint that they've been doing it behind the scenes? Nice dodge.

And now your nitpicking definitions.

pe·ri·od·ic Audio pronunciation of "periodic" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pîr-dk)
adj.

1. Having or marked by repeated cycles.
2. Happening or appearing at regular intervals.
3. Recurring or reappearing from time to time; intermittent.
4. Characterized by periodic sentences.

I was using the third definition and I could have sworn that most people can understand that basic concept.

However since you want to make a issue of it I will change my statement from saying periodic to intermittent.

Do I know what is bring produced? No. But we can say that these ships are not all high endurance ships and that things break. Some things need to be produced. They even had to refine their own Tillium since they blew the Cylon refinery sky high. The fleet has to produce and/or refine resources that are interittently mined. That make you happy? Most of your argument has been nitpicking things I've said rather then trying to say anything.

[Akaramu Shinja]

My arguments only spring up when you make completely baseless claims as if they were fact. State opinions and I won't be so irritated. And I'm pretty confident everyone else that reads this will think you meant the first definition.

The fleet periodicaly mines for resources on planets and asteroids.

In fact, on second thought, it looks like you're trying to revise your initial obviously incorrect statement. I'll accept that as a concession, it's the best someone like you can manage I think.

[Alyeska]

What the fuck is your problem? I still hold by thate statement. You had to nitpick the meaning of periodicaly in order to try and make your point. I cited possible reasons for needing to do the mining and you did prove that the issue of viper construction and munitions to be non-canon. But my point still stands. They have to periodicaly mine for resources.

[StarshipTitanic]

*Cough cough*

[Akaramu Shinja]

What the fuck is your problem?

It's a Sci-fi debate forum. Just because I am opposing your points doesn't mean I am holding some kind of grudge.

I still hold by thate statement. You had to nitpick the meaning of periodicaly in order to try and make your point.

I think you'll find that I nitpicked it lastly, you were arguing on the idea that they were doing behind the scenes mining, don't try to weasel your way out of it.[/quote]

They have to periodicaly mine for resources.

See now it's slightly different isn't it? Just say that they've only ever mined twice as far as we know (once for water and once on the tillium asteroid) and that you didn't intend to mean that they've done behind the scenes extra mining without it showing on screen.

If you agree with that, then I guess we're level on the subject. Should clear up any confusion.

[Alyeska]

My stance hasn't changed. They need those mining ships to mine for resources. We know of two incidents and they will need them for future needs and it remains reasonable (though unproven) that they have needed them for other missions off screen. Any way you put it, they need those mining ships for periodic/intermittent/ocassional/infrequent resource gathering needs.

[Akaramu Shinja]

(though unproven)

Thank you.

Any way you put it, they need those mining ships for periodic/intermittent/ocassional/infrequent resource gathering needs.

I never said they wouldn't need them. I just tried to clarify that they've only been used twice on screen, with no dialogue evidence to support them being used again. Perhaps they will begin periodic mining in the future, but they haven't yet.

[tumbletom]

Btw, does anyone know how long it has been for the fleet since they left Caprica?

[StarshipTitanic]

Btw, does anyone know how long it has been for the fleet since they left Caprica?

A little over two months, I believe.

[xerex]

The fleet periodicaly mines for resources on planets and asteroids.

They've mined once. It was for water. What evidence do you have to support them doing it periodically? You state it like fact.

dude , what was the point of of even arguing this? you could have just asked "how do you know this?" rather than throwing a fit. and this doesnt even address the REALLY interesting original question. how much reserve does Adama's fleet have? can they survive without Rosalyn's gruop?

[xerex]

Btw, does anyone know how long it has been for the fleet since they left Caprica?

last definitive date was in "kobol's last gleaming pt1" where Helo's time on cylon occupied Caprica was given as 50 days. the next 4 episodes appear to occur over 1-2 days and 'the farm' takes place about a week after that.


so yeah about 60days.

[Akaramu Shinja]

dude , what was the point of of even arguing this? you could have just asked "how do you know this?"

Like this?

They've mined once. It was for water. What evidence do you have to support them doing it periodically? You state it like fact.

Read first.

[Crown]

This episode was mostly set-up and exposition for the next part one. Not much to say about it really. I don't know, everything was excellent in it (as usual), but on my special 'nBSG rating scale', I would give it only 3/5 or 4/5. But for general sci-fi; 5/5.

[Old Plympto]

That "To be continued" sign in the end was quite unnecessary, considering the various degrees of cliffhangers in every episode's end this season.

[Akaramu Shinja]

I was personally glad to see some routine military activity, even if it was only to express the crapness of the new CAG.

[UCBooties]

I was personally glad to see some routine military activity, even if it was only to express the crapness of the new CAG.

Yes, because the only way we can ever think that there might be military drills is if we see them on screen. Common sense means nothing right?

So tell me, if we hadn't had those scenes in this episode, would you be arguig that the pilots don't run drills? Or will you now be arguing that the routine flight duties we saw in this episode have only ocurred once in the two months of the series?

[Akaramu Shinja]

Yes, because the only way we can ever think that there might be military drills is if we see them on screen. Common sense means nothing right?

Being glad to see them and being glad to see them to know they exist is two things. Dick for brains.

So tell me, if we hadn't had those scenes in this episode, would you be arguig that the pilots don't run drills?

No, why would I?

Or will you now be arguing that the routine flight duties we saw in this episode have only ocurred once in the two months of the series?

No of course not. That's retarded.

If you rewatch the episodes I think you'll find they've had little time to make these "routine" mining stops and the two times they did, they made it obvious it HAD to be done. Moores blog also suggests he will address the issue of resources properly in the future. I was merely arguing that it hasn't happened yet. Now you're taking my point over one topic and trying to apply the concept of the argument (incorrectly I might add) to completely irrelevant subjects.

I know it might be hard, but try not to be a shitface.

[Calrissian]

I enjoyed the episode, better than the previous. For once, it was pleasing to see mr. baltar and six, i'd almost forgotton all about them.

I was surprised to see Duella (she should be shot for her two faced-ness) with Adama. Clearly Adama can't really fire anyone, since he ain't got the crew.

They should have 'execute all batteries' on the Astral Queen whilst they knew the nasty religious nut Rosyln was on board. As for Zarrick, arghh.. what a slime ball, please can he be the next to be killed off please?

Elosha's loss was sad. She had an interesting role in the mini-series.
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