Well then my mistake, though he could have simply said that instead of being pissy about it.MRDOD wrote:There's no R in WAAAAAGH.18-Till-I-Die wrote:
And what, pray, does that mean? I spelled it wrong or something?
What did i say something insulting, am i missing a joke, what?
Palpatine vs. the God Emperor of Mankind (WH40K)
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Oh, dear what naivete. How do you assume that he knows there is a trap? That's what makes it a "trap" you see.DEATH wrote:That you should just destroy the room rather than wander into a trap, throw a grenade in (For example), or keep your guard up.What are you attempting to argue here?
Almost impossible without something that can be translated into numbers, or compared with things that can be translated into numbers via the laws of limits.True (As I said), but how do we quantify "Really fast, I can't see them move"?No, as NL has pointed out, it was a power. And in any case, even if you are correct quanntification would still be needed here, since blur like movement is an advantage.
He has no chance against the Emperor of Man. He does not need to be anything like the Emperor to have a fair shot at defeating a Bloodthirster, though.Then how big is it? When even Palaptine's force storms are nothing compared to the Emperor's wrath Palaptine really does not have a chance in 100 fights.or did I unequivocally state that Palpatine would win, merely that the difference is not automatically as high as you seem to assume.
The force storm neccesary to kill a Bloodthirster is - in terms of orders of magnitude - quite a bit closer to that needed against people than that needed against SW fleets, given that a Bloodthirster can be taken out by anti tank weapons. Presumably, the time needed to prepare would be similarly proportional.When did he do it in a fight with opponents near him, he didn't use it against Luke/Leia, and it required concentration- hardly a rapid fire attack (Same reason a ritual type spell in D&D will get you killed if you try it while being threatened by multiple melee fighters- you don't have the breathing room for it, even if you can destroy a castle [for example] or lift a mountain top given time and opportunity).When has Palpatine used a forcestorm fast enough against his immediate opponent - except when he has. SNORE! There was no rebel fleet in the Bloodthirster scenario that needed toasting.
If the force storm can toast SW fleets, it can toast a Bloodthirster. End of issue. The only question is who gets the first shot in.
Still, assuming that this were not so, we might be in a picle. If only Palpatine could be aware of the arrival of his opponent in advance so he could prepare. Some sort of "Precog", if you will.
You know, the reason I put that in tiny quotes is because it was off topic and contained spoilers.Technically it's roaring/singin the world of Narnia [not just Narnia] into existence without any trouble, and while being limited by his Father the Emperor over the sea.And now having watched the flic, I can suggest that the upper limit involves his inability to defeat an army of several thousand minions of evil without help from several thousand talking animals and four British kids from the 1940s.
He's basically Illuvatar/Jesus light (He all but states that he is Jesus in our world- "I have many guises").
The White witch had eaten from a tree that made her part of creation as well as granting power, wishes and eternal youth), which was why Aslan couldn't destroy her until later on.
Anyway, what NL said.
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And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
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When has Palpatine showed not just the ability to dial down a force storm (He has shown that) but to make it far faster when it would need less energy?The force storm neccesary to kill a Bloodthirster is - in terms of orders of magnitude - quite a bit closer to that needed against people than that needed against SW fleets, given that a Bloodthirster can be taken out by anti tank weapons. Presumably, the time needed to prepare would be similarly proportional.
You also didn't address the point of him not using it in a straight up hth fight with a comparable opponent, it's not really effective as a combat power, simple as that.
If Palpatine and the Thirster started on opposite continents and the Thirster had no ranged psychic ability then Palpatine would do it, but if the Thirster was anywhere near melee/hitting range then Palpatine would not have a chance.
Also, spoilers on a 60-70 year old series of books is a bit iffy, although I apologize for not thinking of it from your view.
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While I don't know enough to say how effective force storms would be against a bloodthirster, I will state that mundane weapons do not work that well on demons at all except in huge quantities. This is why things like bloodletters actually manage to get into close combat.Lord Zentei wrote:The force storm neccesary to kill a Bloodthirster is - in terms of orders of magnitude - quite a bit closer to that needed against people than that needed against SW fleets, given that a Bloodthirster can be taken out by anti tank weapons. Presumably, the time needed to prepare would be similarly proportional.
Of course, force lightning is supposed to do some funky soul-draining mojo...
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Are'nt you talking about pure hatred force lightning , never heard of special effects for a Force storm.Of course, force lightning is supposed to do some funky soul-draining mojo...
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Force lightning is pure hatred, so it's effectiveness against a being made of raw anger and bloodlust who's "maker" is empowered by hatredSetzer wrote:Energy powered by pure hatred doesn't seem like it would be very effective against Khornate daemons.
(Or is that Nurgle? I think that Khorne being in "charge" of all negative angry and war related emotions would find hate part of his "power base").
As far as I know, Force storms are the "pure" energy of the darkside, meaning raw emotions and power, but not neccesarily hate/rage (Although if Palpatine uses his rage as a boost [Such as Luke did in EP6] rather than just his hatred [for his souped up lightning] it might be far less effective being so similair to the warp and emotions that created Khorne ]and the Thirster]).
If I'm wrong about the Force storms and the hatred composition of the UNLIMITEd POWER!!! of Palpatine's Force storms then please tell me before I start digging my hole any further
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They're intended to be scaling up of the same power. Force lightning does physical damage too remember (Smoke coming off Anakin springs to mind.)DEATH wrote:Are'nt you talking about pure hatred force lightning , never heard of special effects for a Force storm.
And yes, let's not forget that Khrone has a long history of intervening with his immense power to stop magicians destroying his demons.
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Really? Never heard of that, the rpg (Dark empire sourcebook) has them as seperate powers, and not based of each other...They're intended to be scaling up of the same power.
Does WEG contradict this?
Yup, but it's main effects seem to be a "drain life"/negative energy effect, it does raw damage (Raw electrical damage at least, that's the reason Vader couldn't use it due to the risk of it frying his suit).Force lightning does physical damage too remember (Smoke coming off Anakin springs to mind.)
Considering how low/weak the physical component apparently is (Palaptine using it to push Windu out of the Window, while vs Yoda he used TK according to the WOTC RPG site), I'd say that if the main effect is just a life draining/hate effect then the most likely reaction of a Bloodthirster would be to lick it's jaws and start sucking it in (causing an effect similiar to what happened in EP3 when Windu was deflecting/redirecting the lightning).
This is speculation though, and if there has been a more impressive showing of Force lightning in terms of raw damage (I know about the room full of Stormtroopers in Empire #4), that is not based on the drain life/hatred/Dark side effect aspect please tell me.
Eh, where? (Out of curiosity, not that I doubt you).And yes, let's not forget that Khrone has a long history of intervening with his immense power to stop magicians destroying his demons.
He didn't do anything when 13 greater deoms bounced of the shield of lord Kroak (Fanatsy) unless I am very much mistaken.
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Eh, where? (Out of curiosity, not that I doubt you).DEATH wrote:And yes, let's not forget that Khrone has a long history of intervening with his immense power to stop magicians destroying his demons.
He didn't do anything when 13 greater deoms bounced of the shield of lord Kroak (Fanatsy) unless I am very much mistaken.[/quote]
40k is a different continuity from Fantasy. In 40k, the Chaos gods' influence extends over regions of the galaxy. In fantasy, the Chaos gods span regions of a planet.
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I'm talking about obvious authorial intent. The rancid crap pile that is the DESB is something I'm not very aware of.DEATH wrote:Really? Never heard of that, the rpg (Dark empire sourcebook) has them as seperate powers, and not based of each other...
That's just a mindbogglingly shakey argument.Does WEG contradict this?
Yup, but it's main effects seem to be a "drain life"/negative energy effect, it does raw damage (Raw electrical damage at least, that's the reason Vader couldn't use it due to the risk of it frying his suit).
Considering how low/weak the physical component apparently is (Palaptine using it to push Windu out of the Window, while vs Yoda he used TK according to the WOTC RPG site), I'd say that if the main effect is just a life draining/hate effect then the most likely reaction of a Bloodthirster would be to lick it's jaws and start sucking it in (causing an effect similiar to what happened in EP3 when Windu was deflecting/redirecting the lightning).
This is speculation though, and if there has been a more impressive showing of Force lightning in terms of raw damage (I know about the room full of Stormtroopers in Empire #4), that is not based on the drain life/hatred/Dark side effect aspect please tell me.
Lord Kroak was one of the most senior servants of the Old Ones. He destroyed demons in the warp itself. The guy was godlike. Normal magicians tend to run into problems from the protections the marks and items of Khorne grant. This is also why there are no Khronate socreres. Khorne views magic as cheating, and takes action against it.Eh, where? (Out of curiosity, not that I doubt you).
He didn't do anything when 13 greater deoms bounced of the shield of lord Kroak (Fanatsy) unless I am very much mistaken.
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Not actually true. There are Inferno stories that canonically show that Fantasy is at the very least a galaxy scale universe, with the Chaos Gods having access to it. Their full might cannot be brought to bear on that world, and they have multitudinous other concerns.Matt Huang wrote:40k is a different continuity from Fantasy. In 40k, the Chaos gods' influence extends over regions of the galaxy. In fantasy, the Chaos gods span regions of a planet.
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There is also the fact that some books had 40k wepaonry being available as gifts from the Chaos gods.Not actually true. There are Inferno stories that canonically show that Fantasy is at the very least a galaxy scale universe, with the Chaos Gods having access to it.
GW has denied the connection, although the correlation is immense from the Slaan/old ones to, well everything else (Sigmar could even be a pathetic primarch).
What type? Daeomonetes or greater planet batting demons?He destroyed demons in the warp itself.
He's dead? Also, didn't first generation S'laan (Of which he is one) help the Great old ones re-arrange the planet?Lord Kroak was one of the most senior servants of the Old Ones
True, it kinda ran away from my claim that "force lightning is more of a "life draining" effect than raw physical damage.That's just a mindbogglingly shakey argument.
I conceed it, since it really ran away (Although my "it's a "funky" life draining effect through the DS rather than raw DET" claim still stands for now).
Since when could Lightning teleport someone?I'm talking about obvious authorial intent
the Force storms were the same for destruction and teleportation- unleashing the raw power of the DS into the physical world for various effects.
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GW couldn't have denied the connection, since they wrote it into Codex Necrons that the planet exists.DEATH wrote:There is also the fact that some books had 40k wepaonry being available as gifts from the Chaos gods.Not actually true. There are Inferno stories that canonically show that Fantasy is at the very least a galaxy scale universe, with the Chaos Gods having access to it.
GW has denied the connection, although the correlation is immense from the Slaan/old ones to, well everything else (Sigmar could even be a pathetic primarch).
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Greater Demons. IIRC he destroyed hundreds of thousands of lesser demons.DEATH wrote:What type? Daeomonetes or greater planet batting demons?
Err. Yes. That's why he's mummified.He's dead?
Yes. That is meaningless though. And it's 'Slaan' no apostrophe.Also, didn't first generation S'laan (Of which he is one) help the Great old ones re-arrange the planet?
Since incredibly ignorant people were allowed to write Dark Empire? From what I've read, it yanked Luke's X-Wing around, not teleported. Futher, do not ever say that Force Lightning is just Lighting again.Since when could Lightning teleport someone?
Do they look the same? Because otherwise, they're probably not the same power at all.the Force storms were the same for destruction and teleportation- unleashing the raw power of the DS into the physical world for various effects.
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Or better yet, old school Chaos - Slave to Darkness outright states that the WHF world is a rouge planet in the eye of terror and exist in the current time line of 40KLost Soal wrote:GW couldn't have denied the connection, since they wrote it into Codex Necrons that the planet exists.DEATH wrote:There is also the fact that some books had 40k wepaonry being available as gifts from the Chaos gods.Not actually true. There are Inferno stories that canonically show that Fantasy is at the very least a galaxy scale universe, with the Chaos Gods having access to it.
GW has denied the connection, although the correlation is immense from the Slaan/old ones to, well everything else (Sigmar could even be a pathetic primarch).
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He destroyed multiple greater demons inside the WArp ....Greater Demons. IIRC he destroyed hundreds of thousands of lesser demons.
I think we have the new "culture class" opponent for the fantasy forum .
I think that thats what I read was denied by GW.Or better yet, old school Chaos - Slave to Darkness outright states that the WHF world is a rouge planet in the eye of terror and exist in the current time line of 40K
Same as what? as lightning? apart from the white colour, not that much, although DE art sucks balls.Do they look the same? Because otherwise, they're probably not the same power at all.
Thought he was still hanging around like a froggy Budha using his transported corpse as a focus.Err. Yes. That's why he's mummified.
A warty GeoM in other words .
Ok, confused with Berserk .Yes. That is meaningless though. And it's 'Slaan' no apostrophe.
Is it canon that the Great old ones are the superior ancestors of the Slaan or that the slaan are/were merely their servants?
It bought Luke to Byss from across the galaxy.From what I've read, it yanked Luke's X-Wing around, not teleported
Sorry, I meant to say raw concentrated evil, don't know where my spelling was .Futher, do not ever say that Force Lightning is just Lighting again. Razz
Re-he-he-eally? Where, that sounds interesting? (You can just give me a page, I can check the codex on my own)
GW couldn't have denied the connection, since they wrote it into Codex Necrons that the planet exists.
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Not really. It just means he could resist the warp's weirdness.DEATH wrote: He destroyed multiple greater demons inside the WArp ....
I think we have the new "culture class" opponent for the fantasy forum .
Do all instances of 'Force Storm' look the same, or could it be a classification of major force event?Same as what? as lightning? apart from the white colour, not that much, although DE art sucks balls.
Old Ones. Great is lovecraft ya puddin. And no, they used to be called the "Ancient Slaan" in the 40K background, but are truly called the Old Ones. The Slaan resemble them most of all their servants in form, wisdom and power, but did not evolve from them. At a guess, the Slaan were kind of like trained apes would be to us.Is it canon that the Great old ones are the superior ancestors of the Slaan or that the slaan are/were merely their servants?
That's not teleportation unless he didn't pass through the intervening space.It bought Luke to Byss from across the galaxy.
They didn't, they wrote the Old Ones back into the 40k history, and wrote that perhaps some still existed. Xenology says that there was probably one Old One still going around half a million years ago. She may yet live.Re-he-he-eally? Where, that sounds interesting? (You can just give me a page, I can check the codex on my own)
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Not going to argue it, but do you know off the top of your head where GW said that? I love it when they flip flop on there background info, ugggggggDEATH wrote:I think that thats what I read was denied by GW.Or better yet, old school Chaos - Slave to Darkness outright states that the WHF world is a rouge planet in the eye of terror and exist in the current time line of 40K
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Yes it does, resisting the insanity of the warp is the lesser feat.Not really. It just means he could resist the warp's weirdness.
The greater feat is beating greater deomons in their home ground when they can play ping pong with planets.
The effect is similiar, if not 100% identical, but the appearance resembling a "white storm" or "funnel"/whirlpool is relatively consistant, the "fx" is roughly the same- no major differences.Do all instances of 'Force Storm' look the same, or could it be a classification of major force event?
And the outer gods , but thanks for the correction.Old Ones. Great is lovecraft ya puddin.
Thanks, that explains the Slaan hunters with lasguns problem.The Slaan resemble them most of all their servants in form, wisdom and power, but did not evolve from them
Then what is it? it sounds like Teleportation rather than very fast transport, it bought him from here to there incredibly quickly.That's not teleportation unless he didn't pass through the intervening space.
Odd, I thought that after the invention of the WArp and "fall" of the C'tan the Old ones were left to start dealing with Chaos (In the background to avoid any sign of hope in the grim and apocalyptic 40k verse ).That's not teleportation unless he didn't pass through the intervening space.
What happened to the very old fluff about them waiting in the wings?
Or is the theory that they made the Nid's more popular nowadays?[and ended up losing control or in trouble)
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Err, no, the C'tan never fell. The Old Ones tried desperately to manipulate enough races into living weapons to mount an effective counter-attack, but such energy could not be drawn from the warp without causing the warp to become a mess. The Old Ones civilisation collapsed, and the C'tan decided they could not halt the problem before all their cattle were infested by the warp monsters, and so went into stasis to wait for new species to emerge that they could make their playthings. Mephet'ran says it is a great surprise to him, for example, that the Krork survived from that time.
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I'm pretty sure they retconned it out around the time they released 4th Edition.Azazal wrote:Not going to argue it, but do you know off the top of your head where GW said that? I love it when they flip flop on there background info, ugggggggDEATH wrote:I think that thats what I read was denied by GW.Or better yet, old school Chaos - Slave to Darkness outright states that the WHF world is a rouge planet in the eye of terror and exist in the current time line of 40K
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It's not that that material was removed, it's that they stopped officially recognizing the link, because it pissed off Fantasy's fans.Kuja wrote:I'm pretty sure they retconned it out around the time they released 4th Edition.
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Someone (probably Death himself) posted a short time ago several pics of Force Storms in Spacebattles that show a consistent appearance. It looks like a serpentine grayish "cylinder" with a storm-like appearance and a massive illuminated "maw" (it is probably smaller than the Eclipse, but more than big enough to swallow whole a Nebulon B). The maw generates some pretty strong suction that in one instance lifts a complete army from the surface of a planet.NecronLord wrote:Do all instances of 'Force Storm' look the same, or could it be a classification of major force event?