If Babylon 5 invaded Star Wars (off topic,sorry)

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:19am

You are being sooo mean Mike.

I like it! Guys ask yourself; has someone else already asked this question before?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:20am

Sorry about the double post, just that the other one is invisible.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-31 01:24am

You are being sooo mean Mike. icon_lol.gif I like it!

Hey, if someone's going to start posting calcs, they're asking for trouble if they just start inventing their own version of physics to fill them in.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:25am

Mike you know that I am a softie; should I give them just a little hint?

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 01:27am

I was attempting to prove that if the ISD was a billiard ball and the asteroid was a billiard ball...
Collision mechanics only work when to matter only objects collide, there are no energy shields on the asteriod so I can only assume that upon impact with the ISD the shields actively did something to the asteroid, such as vaporizing it, because the shields would have done all the pressing back(Newton's second law) instead of the ISD. I'm also assuming that an ISD will not act upon an asteroid as an asteroid acts upon another asteroid.
Please explain why having an expanding cloud of superheated plasmatic iron moving towards you at 400 m/s is better than having a cold rock moving at you.
And when you say that a person has no knowledge of kinematics please provide another explanation instead of a pointless insult.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-31 01:31am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:I was attempting to prove that if the ISD was a billiard ball and the asteroid was a billiard ball...

... then your equations are still meaningless, because they're not based on anything remotely resembling the physics of such a situation. They appear to be based on totally random use of figures and equations.

Collision mechanics only work when to matter only objects collide, there are no energy shields on the asteriod so I can only assume that upon impact with the ISD the shields actively did something to the asteroid, such as vaporizing it, because the shields would have done all the pressing back(Newton's second law) instead of the ISD. I'm also assuming that an ISD will not act upon an asteroid as an asteroid acts upon another asteroid.

Keep trying.

Please explain why having an expanding cloud of superheated plasmatic iron moving towards you at 400 m/s is better than having a cold rock moving at you.

Please explain what the fuck you think this has to do with the issue I raised.

And when you say that a person has no knowledge of kinematics please provide another explanation instead of a pointless insult.

I have. Your failure to locate it is not my problem.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-31 01:31am

Crown wrote:Mike you know that I am a softie; should I give them just a little hint?

Heh heh ... do what you think is best

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 01:33am

If you want I can take plastic models and through rocks at them at 400m/s and see what happens.(Hint: Kaboom)
Alright what calculations do you have proving that hitting that asteroid would have caused significant damage to the ISD, Dth. Wong?

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-31 01:34am

Crown wrote:has someone else already asked this question before?

There's a page on the main site that addresses this issue in detail. I can't find it at the moment (SD is quite badly organized IMO) but it should be there somewhere unless Wong took it down.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:34am

No you don't get out of that this easily. It's obvious that if you think with an engineering principle, rather than just a science principle, the answer will smack you right in the head! Start at the start; what is Newton's 3rd Law?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-31 01:38am

I'll help only to see if he gets it...

For

every

action,

there

is

an

equal

and

opposite

reaction.

Think of a bug and a car windshield...

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 01:51am

Really it isn't F=ma
Or wait is that the second law!
Damn

SyntaxVorlon wrote:
I was attempting to prove that if the ISD was a billiard ball and the asteroid was a billiard ball...

This is a joke, your failure to locate it is not my problem.

Please explain why having an expanding cloud of superheated plasmatic iron moving towards you at 400 m/s is better than having a cold rock moving at you.

The issue you raised was vague and unexplained. I was assuming that if the ISDs shields would not only counter the momentum(ie not transfer the momentum to the ISD) and repel the object, then the ISD would not have needed to fire upon it. But if the ISDs shields were weak enough to allow a hull breach or breach in SW physics allowing Newton to get in the window, enough to destroy or hamper the ISD, then the shields cannot take Teraton impacts as the books may have you believe.
Also the reactor on an ISD is not hypermatter it is a solar ionization reactor.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:53am

Wow

Way to go to avoid the freakin' question.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-31 01:54am

Okay...you think he'll actually answer the question or just simply ignore it and make some huff about it?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-31 01:55am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:Also the reactor on an ISD is not hypermatter it is a solar ionization reactor.

As near as I can figure, Solar Ionization is a brand. Afterall, you find solar ionization reactors on all kinds of stuff, Strike Cruisers, TIEs, etc and different sources say it is different things (some say solar power, some say fission, some say fusion). Plus since ISDs can have superlasers mounted on them, even if it wasn't hypermatter, it still cranks out as much power. I wrote an essay on this and a bunch of other power things a while back (think it was January). Oddly, turns out a few were on the ball.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 01:56am

I don't think he is dumb or anything, it's that he just stops short of getting to the heart of the matter before reaching a conclusion. Like I said he is thinking too 'scientific' instead of 'engineering'.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-31 01:56am

Just want to point this out: SAMAS had the same question

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 02:09am

According to the SW site the ISD is powered by a small sun. Read it if you like.
What engineering principles do you mean, Crown?
I've heard a lot of "you're arguments are dumb" and "it's obvious you are an idiot because your butt is stupid"-like comments but know equations or rationalizations. Ender and I have been the only ones with paragraphs for an entire page, let's see some indented explainations!

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-31 02:15am

Hey, like I said, I don't particularly think that you are dumb, but I do believe that you are not thinking the question all the way throught to the answer. Always remember that of every single thing asked what is it's simplest form? If you follow this thought through you will get there. I'll start you off; Newton's 3rd Law. We have determined this, now where is the 'reaction' force applied?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-31 02:19am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:According to the SW site the ISD is powered by a small sun. Read it if you like.

I have

Powering the 1.6 kilometer long craft is nothing short of a miniature sun -- a solar ionization reactor bulges from the ventral spine, using its raging fires to fuel the giant warship.

Ignoring the fact that it is an artistic description, it actually supports me.
All it really does is show that ISDs use fusion to go, where as TIEs also have a solar ionization reactor and they use either fission (saxtons site IIRC) or solar power (EU). It can't be both, but if Solar Ionization is a brand, just like "Event Horizon" engines on the A-wing are, it works. And depending on what hypermattter is it can be a hypermatter reactor that uses fusion.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2002-12-31 03:29am

Ender wrote:*He's one of the Jump Point fanboys (he thinks they can beat back any invader just by opening a jump point inside their ship.

Idiot. That's the Fiver equivalent of the Warp Strafing Theory. Who is this Adarx dipshit?

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 03:40am

Crown wrote:Hey, like I said, I don't particularly think that you are dumb, but I do believe that you are not thinking the question all the way throught to the answer. Always remember that of every single thing asked what is it's simplest form? If you follow this thought through you will get there. I'll start you off; Newton's 3rd Law. We have determined this, now where is the 'reaction' force applied?

This assumes that shields work in the same way as armor except they cannot be penetrated as easily. Or that shields only work against energy weapons and a meteor can get through easily.(Also assumes that projected shields[Hoth, Endor] are completely different from ship shields)

I assume that shields are charged particulate barriers that absorb energy and move it around at a great speed, away from area so that it dissapates quickly. This form of shield(on an ISD) would not transfer momentum from the asteroid to the ship and would destroy the asteroid by reflecting its kinetic energy and adding the particle energy to the mix.

But if you do know what the nature of SW ship shields is, do tell.
And Crown, please if you've figured it out, do simply tell me the answer.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2002-12-31 03:47am

Captain Kruger wrote:
Ender wrote:*He's one of the Jump Point fanboys (he thinks they can beat back any invader just by opening a jump point inside their ship.
Idiot. That's the Fiver equivalent of the Warp Strafing Theory. Who is this Adarx dipshit?

A: What is Warp Strafing?
B: This has been used against ships in B5, opening a jumpgate creates a massive amount of energy to be released if the as a part of the universe shifts into another dimension, whatever matter is their is destroyed and any in the immediate vecinity is superheated.
Ex:B5: In the Beginning, Minbari cruiser opens a jump gate immediately next to a Nova class cruiser and it is destroyed immediately.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2002-12-31 04:17am

Warp strafing is firing photon torpedoes from warp at target that are going slower than light. It was done in the TOS ( the original Star trek) but later never done in the later TNG, Voyager, and DS9.

Problem is how much energy is release by opening a jump gate. Is the damage in the megatons? Cannot be alot since Jumpgate are open all the time and most of the time they appear not to be causing harm to any vessels in the area.

Sinclair was able to destroy a shadow ship by opening a Jump portal while in a jumpgate, but as he said this was a highly dangerous action and was nickname the "Bone head Manuever"...

even if you get an explosion you still got to over come the shields of of SW vessels that can withstand damage in the Gigatons to Petaton range.

Apparently the Minari ship open a gate on top of the earth force ship sheering it in half , but SW ship are much faster than the slow ship of the Earth force, and would be very hard to target compare to a ship that can only accelerate to 1 to 3 G max ( compare this to average acceleration of 2000 to 3000G for most SW capital ships).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-31 04:30am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:And Crown, please if you've figured it out, do simply tell me the answer.

(sigh) it's elementary physics, and you're so goddamned lazy you refuse to give it a serious try before giving up and demanding that the answer be spoon-fed to you? My faith in the younger generation slips another notch ...

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

If Babylon 5 invaded Star Wars (off topic,sorry)

warp strafing and jump gates