ST vs B5 Boarding Action (Trek defending)

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-21 09:17pm

The EarthForce fleet that attacked Babylon 5 in "Severed Dreams" attacks Deep Space 9.

For purposes of this debate, DS9 has not yet undergone a weapons upgrade; they have the same level of protection that they had in "Emissary" (the pilot).

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » 2003-01-21 09:35pm

B5 takes the station, only because they're more competent then the pajama-wearing trekkies

Shadow Walker · Post by **Shadow Walker** » 2003-01-21 09:48pm

The corridors of DS9 run red with red shirt blood. The feddie's would probably let the B5's onbaord for talks. We all know how it goes from there.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-21 11:02pm

Yeah Sheridan gets in with his lawyer and sues their asses for copying the show.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-22 09:55am

Shadow Walker wrote:The corridors of DS9 run red with red shirt blood. The feddie's would probably let the B5's onbaord for talks. We all know how it goes from there.

I think we can safely dismiss the "let them on board for talks" arguments. For our purposes, the EarthForce ships are known to be as hostile to DS9 as they were to B5. Sisko knows he has to resist.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 10:09am

This is no contest at all. Earthforce troops carry PPG pistols, rifles, and on ocassion we have seen one that looks like a PPG .50 cal on steroids.

PPG's are strong enough that 3 or 4 troopers with them can knock in a blast door in a matter of seconds.

Earthforce troops also wear actual bodyarmor and show themselves skilled in the use of cover.

Finally Earthforce troops actually carry grenades. Anyone ever seen a Trek guy with anything but his PJ's and a pistol?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-22 10:23am

DocMoriartty wrote:This is no contest at all. Earthforce troops carry PPG pistols, rifles, and on ocassion we have seen one that looks like a PPG .50 cal on steroids.

PPG's are strong enough that 3 or 4 troopers with them can knock in a blast door in a matter of seconds.

Earthforce troops also wear actual bodyarmor and show themselves skilled in the use of cover.

Finally Earthforce troops actually carry grenades. Anyone ever seen a Trek guy with anything but his PJ's and a pistol?

Umm a com bage and some rank pips?

ohh and a fun handy dandy tricorder so he can anylise the energy phase variance of the quantum flux as he gets his head blown clean off.

Seele · Post by **Seele** » 2003-01-22 11:58am

But doesn't Earthforce have to be able to knock out the shields on DS9?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-22 12:06pm

An Omega destroyer buzzing the station should take out the bubble shields, if they are somehow hull-hugging, then ram unmanned shuttles into them until they give. Remember, trek kinetic shielding truly sucks.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 12:08pm

No reason to suggest that they cannot. Bab5 forces have fought aliens from another dimension whose ships were protected by massive shields.

What did the Bab5 pilots do? They just shot the damn things 5 times instead of twice.

So we have a battle going here. Bab5 capships are blasting away with extremely heavy solid bean cannons that will eventually take down Trek shields. Then it gets ugly since Bab5 weapons are designed to deal with targets that are well armored.

The Trek return fire gets free hits since Bab5 ships have no shields. Bab ships do though have interceptors. These are special gun emplacements deisgned to rapid fire shots that intercept and detonate enemy fire before it reaches the ship. These interceptors are generally 90% plus effective since you only see ships taking heavy hits after the interceptors start to overheat and slow down their fire. So odds are Trek torps are not going to get anywhere near the Bab5 ships.

Now we can suggest that phasers might be immune to interception. Unfortuantely phasers are horribly inaccurate. Even worse phasers are LEAST effective against dense material. Bab5 ships use heavy dense armor (is there any other kind?) as their only passive defense. So even when phasers hit they are hitting material that they are going to do the least damage to.

I give this battle of Bab5.

BTW. Exactly what class ships is Bab5 going to use for this boarding action? I was assuming a large squadron of Omega Destroyers. They are a pretty baseline ship in the Bab5 universe.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-22 12:17pm

The original fleet looked like 3 Omegas and the breaching pod, the reinforcement column looked like two Omegas and a Hyperion.
Does DS9 have the Defiant to aid in defense, or just the runabouts?

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 12:29pm

If DS9 does not have its weapons upgrade then this must be happening before the Defiant came along.

consequences wrote:The original fleet looked like 3 Omegas and the breaching pod, the reinforcement column looked like two Omegas and a Hyperion.
Does DS9 have the Defiant to aid in defense, or just the runabouts?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-22 12:43pm

That's not absolutely certain, there was a period between 'The Search' and 'The Way of The Warrior' where they had the Defiant, and the weapons upgrades might not have been operational.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-22 12:45pm

Ted C wrote:The EarthForce fleet that attacked Babylon 5 in "Severed Dreams" attacks Deep Space 9.

For purposes of this debate, DS9 has not yet undergone a weapons upgrade; they have the same level of protection that they had in "Emissary" (the pilot).

Seems that its pre defiant to me.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-22 12:52pm

DocMoriartty wrote: BTW. Exactly what class ships is Bab5 going to use for this boarding action? I was assuming a large squadron of Omega Destroyers. They are a pretty baseline ship in the Bab5 universe.

The force Clark sent to take B5 in "Severed Dreams". That would consist of two Omega-class destroyers, a couple of heavy cruisers, all of their fighters, and at least one breaching pod. If you think the scenario is too easy for the defenders, you can always bring in the three additional destroyers that arrived as reinforcements (with the same difference in arrival time, of course).

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-22 12:53pm

DocMoriartty wrote:If DS9 does not have its weapons upgrade then this must be happening before the Defiant came along.

DS9 has the same resources that were available to it in "Emissary" (the pilot).

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 01:00pm

The definately Bab5 forces.

In the pilots episode DS9 has less than a dozen torps total (I want to say less than 6 even) and a few phaser banks of low power.

In a matter of moments the shields will be down and there will be Earthforce maries pouring into DS9. Then superior weapons, tactics (since Bab5 troops actually use tactics) and numbers will make this a very short fight.

Ted C wrote:
DocMoriartty wrote:If DS9 does not have its weapons upgrade then this must be happening before the Defiant came along.
DS9 has the same resources that were available to it in "Emissary" (the pilot).

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-22 01:14pm

It seems like we're somewhat crippling DS9 here. Why not at least give them the Defiant to temporarily hold off the boarding of the station?

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-22 01:24pm

Captain Kruger wrote:It seems like we're somewhat crippling DS9 here. Why not at least give them the Defiant to temporarily hold off the boarding of the station?

The intent of this whole series of threads is to examine the abilities of various groups to force entry into a defended station. The space battle is mostly a side-show; I'm more interested in how the troops perform.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-22 01:26pm

Ted C wrote:
Captain Kruger wrote:It seems like we're somewhat crippling DS9 here. Why not at least give them the Defiant to temporarily hold off the boarding of the station?
The intent of this whole series of threads is to examine the abilities of various groups to force entry into a defended station. The space battle is mostly a side-show; I'm more interested in how the troops perform.

That should be obvious. DS9 has never really had a defense force to it. It has a security force. Its only defense is outside of the station. Once the hull is breached its the Alamo for the defenders.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-22 01:43pm

DocMoriartty wrote:
Ted C wrote: The intent of this whole series of threads is to examine the abilities of various groups to force entry into a defended station. The space battle is mostly a side-show; I'm more interested in how the troops perform.
That should be obvious. DS9 has never really had a defense force to it. It has a security force. Its only defense is outside of the station. Once the hull is breached its the Alamo for the defenders.

They did successfully repel/contain Klingon boarders in "Way of the Warrior", so they have some ability to defend against boarding parties.

The question, therefore, is how long could those defenders resist a determined effort from EarthForce troops to take the station.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-22 02:04pm

Ahh. Well in that case…

Unlike your other thread where you have Klingons boarding B5, I think this one is a slaughter. Odo's meager squad of defenders would never fend off the horde of EA troops coming their way.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-22 05:56pm

If B5 Marines get on the station, it will run red with Federation blood. I am not totally confident of the ability of the B5 task force to down the shields of DS9 and to survive its defensive fire.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-01-26 03:51am

Howedar wrote:If B5 Marines get on the station, it will run red with Federation blood. I am not totally confident of the ability of the B5 task force to down the shields of DS9 and to survive its defensive fire.

Agreed. B5 does seem to have weaker firepower than many of the other universes.

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2003-01-27 03:19am

DS9 wins.

DS9 was designed to handle megaton yield weapons, while EA forces carry nukes only for special occasions (Captain's birthday).

So since the shields never fall, the boarding parties never get a chance to show their stuff.

The only way, as was said earlier, is for EA to use kamikazi shuttles or fighters (or remote piloted), and smash them into the shields over and over. After that, get the ships inside the bubble, and launch the breeching pods. That is the only way to get a B5 victory.

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ST vs B5 Boarding Action (Trek defending)

ST vs B5 Boarding Action (Trek defending)

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