40K force subsitution...

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 09:16am

What would happen if we replace the Imperium from 40K with the Empire from Star Wars?

Would the Empire be able to stand up against the threat of Chaos, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, Orks & Tau...plus all the other nasties the Imperium has to put up with?

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-23 09:36am

Goddamn, not another 40K vs SW thread.

Flee! Flee before the flames come!

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 09:45am

Not so much as VS, more a 'what if...'

Artanis · Post by **Artanis** » 2003-01-23 12:21pm

Three words: "Base Delta Zero"

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2003-01-23 12:33pm

DocHorror wrote:What would happen if we replace the Imperium from 40K with the Empire from Star Wars?

Would the Empire be able to stand up against the threat of Chaos, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, Orks & Tau...plus all the other nasties the Imperium has to put up with?

Not only would they do as good as the Imperium. They would do BETTER than the Imperium, Far better in fact. But I do honestly wonder if they could survive against the Necrontyr.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 01:06pm

Three words: "Base Delta Zero"

Whats that going to achieve exactly? Do you recommend the Empire goes around blitzing every planet?

The Imperium can destroy planets at will also so the 'dreaded' Base Delta Zero isn't exactly scary or effective here...

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-01-23 01:40pm

Not only would they do as good as the Imperium. They would do BETTER than the Imperium, Far better in fact. But I do honestly wonder if they could survive against the Necrontyr.

I somehow doubt this, their complete lack of any sort of anti-chaos technology at all will be their downfall methinks.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 01:48pm

I somehow doubt this, their complete lack of any sort of anti-chaos technology at all will be their downfall methinks.

That was my thinking as well. Though it would be interesting. You could argue that hyperdrive tech will make travel safer due to the fact that it doesn't need to enter the warp. But Im sure any unprotected psykers will cause trouble, especially after they get possessed by some hideous fiend...

On a side note, I think thats one of the reasons I like 40k, the fact that tech isn't all powerful...it helps, a great deal, but it becomes effectively nullifed against daemons & such, a more spiritual approach (eg the Emperors prayer hurts daemons & words of power or symbols can banish them) is needed...

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-01-23 02:14pm

Well, without the shielding influence of the Emperor, the human inhabitants basically become daemon fodder.

also, complete non-existance of Warp based technology means that the C'tan are unkillable by the Empire.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 02:21pm

also, complete non-existance of Warp based technology means that the C'tan are unkillable by the Empire.

True...while I dont think the Empire will get slaughtered, they will have a hardpressed fight on their hands here.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-23 02:58pm

Artanis wrote:Three words: "Base Delta Zero"

One word: Exterminatus

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-23 03:24pm

DocHorror wrote:
also, complete non-existance of Warp based technology means that the C'tan are unkillable by the Empire.
True...while I dont think the Empire will get slaughtered, they will have a hardpressed fight on their hands here.

Actually they would get massacred. When the C'tan see hyperdrive they will realise that the 'great warding' (who named that anyway, you should have gone with my suggestion folkes) will not remove their hyperdrive they will smack them down. As codex necrons says they have system destroying black hole weaponary...

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 03:29pm

So generally no body (so far) thinks the Empire will be able to hold its own against the 40k galaxy...

I would have thought there would have been a few arguements at least...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-23 03:33pm

DocHorror wrote:So generally no body (so far) thinks the Empire will be able to hold its own against the 40k galaxy...

I would have thought there would have been a few arguements at least...

Well to be fair if the C'tan wanted to they could kill the IoM just as fast if not faster.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 03:35pm

Well to be fair if the C'tan wanted to they could kill the IoM just as fast if not faster.

I think you'll find I disagree with you there

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-23 03:35pm

You're missing a very important fact. The Empire is a fluid entity. It is constantly growing, and in the space of a very short time developed significantly POWERFUL weapons of mass destruction. Its industrial capabilities are immense, it's scientific abilities wide.

I don't think the Empire would take very long to DESIGN weapons capable of defeating even the C'tan, especially once they figured out what the warp tech was all about. There's no reason they wouldn't, since everything but them uses it, right?

The only thing I don't know about is the starfleet power of the 40K universes. Most of the Empire's strength seems to lie in its navy.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 03:40pm

I don't think the Empire would take very long to DESIGN weapons capable of defeating even the C'tan, especially once they figured out what the warp tech was all about. There's no reason they wouldn't, since everything but them uses it, right?

Thats a good point, but you don't just 'learn' how to defeat Chaos in a short space of time...especially when most normal weapons are unaffective against Daemons...

Also different races use warp tech is different ways. The Eldar have a web way (vaguely similar to Stargate, vaguely, if my understanding is correct) to allow them safe passage through the warp.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2003-01-23 04:11pm

I don't know if this is overwritten by any of the novels/et al (I don't like the 40K setting, but I like the system), but Exterminatus isn't that impressive. In the core rulebook, part of the fluff text describes a fleet that tried to 'BDZ' a planet of tentacled Beholder-like creatures. When they tried, though, the planetary defenses came to life and whipped their tails. So, obviously, the IoM can't BDZ at will...it takes some preparation time, and if there are planteray defenses, they can't at all.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-23 04:14pm

DocHorror wrote:
Well to be fair if the C'tan wanted to they could kill the IoM just as fast if not faster.
I think you'll find I disagree with you there

Insolence...

*blasts you to bits*

"Galaxies had lived and died at their masters command" - Nightbringer.

Also do see my sig.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-23 04:22pm

Ryoga wrote:I don't know if this is overwritten by any of the novels/et al (I don't like the 40K setting, but I like the system), but Exterminatus isn't that impressive. In the core rulebook, part of the fluff text describes a fleet that tried to 'BDZ' a planet of tentacled Beholder-like creatures. When they tried, though, the planetary defenses came to life and whipped their tails. So, obviously, the IoM can't BDZ at will...it takes some preparation time, and if there are planteray defenses, they can't at all.

Umm Sheilded planets in SW can flip a switch and render BDZ futile.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-23 04:23pm

Lagmonster wrote:You're missing a very important fact. The Empire is a fluid entity. It is constantly growing, and in the space of a very short time developed significantly POWERFUL weapons of mass destruction. Its industrial capabilities are immense, it's scientific abilities wide.

I don't think the Empire would take very long to DESIGN weapons capable of defeating even the C'tan, especially once they figured out what the warp tech was all about. There's no reason they wouldn't, since everything but them uses it, right?

The only thing I don't know about is the starfleet power of the 40K universes. Most of the Empire's strength seems to lie in its navy.

Humm the Necrons have been around for 600 Million years. They never developed warp tech. Their FTL is leagues more advanced than the Empires. Their warships can annihalate star systems they have destroyed galaxies. Their tech is sufficient to cut off an alternate dimension, completely.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 04:31pm

I don't know if this is overwritten by any of the novels/et al (I don't like the 40K setting, but I like the system), but Exterminatus isn't that impressive. In the core rulebook, part of the fluff text describes a fleet that tried to 'BDZ' a planet of tentacled Beholder-like creatures. When they tried, though, the planetary defenses came to life and whipped their tails. So, obviously, the IoM can't BDZ at will...it takes some preparation time, and if there are planteray defenses, they can't at all.

I doubt the Empire can BDZ while under heavy fire from planetary defenses...

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2003-01-23 04:58pm

I get to participate in a 40k discussion. Against the Nids, the empire might stand a chance if they can hold the hive fleets off and keep the infestation from getting to out of hand. Sure the Empire has superior tech and they'd easily be able to hit Node Creatures after a few encounters, but the Nids relie on steaming rolling targets with wave after wave of weak creatures. Tau are beaten, they're not enough of them and GE can take 'em out their Mechanized Suits with their walkers. Eldar its the numbers deal. It'd be interesting to see Chaos Stormtroopers.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-23 05:17pm

NecronLord wrote:Humm the Necrons have been around for 600 Million years. They never developed warp tech. Their FTL is leagues more advanced than the Empires. Their warships can annihalate star systems they have destroyed galaxies. Their tech is sufficient to cut off an alternate dimension, completely.

Okay. So there's a limit. But from what I've seen of them, wouldn't you think that something like, say, the Orcs or the Eldar seriously lack the industrial or scientific capacity to outperform the Empire. Remember, we're not talking an Imperial battle group with no support, right? We're talking THE WHOLE EMPIRE, planets and resources and all, plop surrounded by 40K hostile forces. That's a big pool of shit for the 40Kers to wade through.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-01-23 05:47pm

I don't think the Empire would stand a chance in hell. The Empire simply does not have the resources. Imperial Guardsmen number in the billions, if not trillions, and that's not taking into account Space Marines, Sisters, plantetary militias, ship crews, clergy, and other support units. While the Empire does have impressive weapons technology, its just outclassed in terms of manpower.

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Exterminatus

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