Battle of the Line Change

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-24 09:38pm

The Earth-Mimbari war had begun in earnest with the Mimbari fleet drawing close to earth, when a EA cruiser happens upon a wormhole connecting to the SW galaxy. Since they are getting the stuffing beat out of them, Earthforce asks the Empire for help. Palpatine wants to eliminate the rebels before he moves on to other galaxies, but sees the benefit of having an ally (read as: foothold) over there. Plus he doesn't like aliens defeating humans. So he gives to the EA the following:

1) 1 Golan 3 station, put in orbit around earth (assume that it has ZERO problem targeting through Mimbari stealth).
2) Outdated sensor upgrades for all EA craft (lets them get an iffy lock through the jamming, think of it like the difference between nothing (before) and scrambled porn (now)).

EA cannot adapt the Golan weapons to work with their stuff.

The Mimbari fleet arrives, all numbers the same as before. What happens?

Remember: A Golan is in geostationary orbit, meaning that it can only cover a single hemisphere. So while it can tear through Sharlins, it can't take out the fleet. It does let the EA concentrate it's forces a bit better though. Of course, the Mimbari can just go on the other side as well.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-24 09:53pm

With a Golan station in orbit, the Battle of the Line becomes the Great Minbari Turkey shoot!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-01-24 09:55pm

anyone read dark distorted mirror, where the minbiri didnt surrender? awesome story.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-24 09:55pm

A Golan III has the combat power of a ISD II, anything it gets LOS to will be destroyed in seconds.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-24 10:21pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:A Golan III has the combat power of a ISD II, anything it gets LOS to will be destroyed in seconds.

Don't the Golan station's weapons have light-hour ranges if there's no ECM to interfere with targeting? If that's the case, the Mimbari are utterly fucked unless they approach down the very narrow (relative to the solar system) corridor where Earth and sometimes the moon blocks the Golan station's sights, and then they're easy prey for the Earth forces, who can pounce on them at will while the Mimbari can't maneuver.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-24 10:30pm

RedImperator wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:A Golan III has the combat power of a ISD II, anything it gets LOS to will be destroyed in seconds.
Don't the Golan station's weapons have light-hour ranges if there's no ECM to interfere with targeting? If that's the case, the Mimbari are utterly fucked unless they approach down the very narrow (relative to the solar system) corridor where Earth and sometimes the moon blocks the Golan station's sights, and then they're easy prey for the Earth forces, who can pounce on them at will while the Mimbari can't maneuver.

Turbolasers can reach out that far, as seen in Rebel Stand, but even extremely simple maneuvers would provide protection against such fire. The across system shots against the world ship where probably only possibul because it was in a stable orbit.

Still, they won't have any reason to evade until the fires ships explode, and Golan's have scores of weapons, which only need one shot.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-24 10:39pm

Except that if they come in on the far side of earth, they are safe and can fight the EA without dealing with the station.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-24 10:41pm

Oh, and I'm going to clarify before someone comes in with it: No jump point trick.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-24 10:47pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:anyone read dark distorted mirror, where the minbiri didnt surrender? awesome story.

I loved that story....nice dark character and the juxtaposition of the roles was damn good....all the old threads just jumbled together into a new weave....

As for the matter at hand....if you can get the minbari in the arc of the Golan this is a damn short battle....otherwise the sensors make it a close run battle with the EAS.....a matter of who has the luck on the day....

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-24 10:48pm

With the Golan-3 the Earth Force ships can leave a significant portion of Earth alone. This allows more of their ships to concentrate elsewhere. With their new targeting capabilities they could possibly hurt the Minbari enough to force a Draw. The Minbari could still win, but its a question of how much damage they are willing to take.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-24 11:37pm

Alyeska wrote:With the Golan-3 the Earth Force ships can leave a significant portion of Earth alone. This allows more of their ships to concentrate elsewhere. With their new targeting capabilities they could possibly hurt the Minbari enough to force a Draw. The Minbari could still win, but its a question of how much damage they are willing to take.

With Sharlins being blown out of the sky left and right, I think they would pull back and lick their wounds. If you walk into battle expecting a turkey shoot and find your finest warships being blown out of the sky, you probably reconsider your tactical position instead of grimly pressing on.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-24 11:39pm

What is an appropriately pompous Minbari phrase for "Where the fuck did that battlestation come from, and what the fuck are they using for weapons?"

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-24 11:59pm

AdmiralKanos wrote:What is an appropriately pompous Minbari phrase for "Where the fuck did that battlestation come from, and what the fuck are they using for weapons?"

I think the minbari for "Shit!" would about cover it wouldnt it?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-25 12:00am

Who are the Minbari?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-25 12:09am

If the Minbari learn to stear clear of the Golan-3, they can still devestate Earth from other angles. Really, this battle is for the upgraded Earth Alliance vessels to win.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-25 12:13am

Alyeska wrote:If the Minbari learn to stear clear of the Golan-3, they can still devestate Earth from other angles. Really, this battle is for the upgraded Earth Alliance vessels to win.

I seriously doubt that the Minbari would not be shaken after seeing their vessels being effortlessly shredded by this newcomer. Anything but a full retreat after the first few dozen lost warships would be silly; how would they even know it can't move if it wants to?

You seem to be assuming that the Minbari will be completely cool while watching their precious war cruisers being blown away left and right, assume the station can't move to follow them, and calmly move around to the far side of the planet, taking massive casualties as they go, until they're safe to do battle with "only" the upgraded EA warships. I just can't see this; what kind of military commander walks into a situation, discovers his enemy is a thousand times more powerful and dangerous than he thought, and does not call a retreat?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-25 12:19am

AdmiralKanos wrote:
Alyeska wrote:If the Minbari learn to stear clear of the Golan-3, they can still devestate Earth from other angles. Really, this battle is for the upgraded Earth Alliance vessels to win.
I seriously doubt that the Minbari would not be shaken after seeing their vessels being effortlessly shredded by this newcomer. Anything but a full retreat after the first few dozen lost warships would be silly; how would they even know it can't move if it wants to?

You seem to be assuming that the Minbari will be completely cool while watching their precious war cruisers being blown away left and right, assume the station can't move to follow them, and calmly move around to the far side of the planet, taking massive casualties as they go, until they're safe to do battle with "only" the upgraded EA warships. I just can't see this; what kind of military commander walks into a situation, discovers his enemy is a thousand times more powerful and dangerous than he thought, and does not call a retreat?

They would probably regroup, but not completely retreat. If anything they can use hit and fade tactics against the EA ships using jump points to come out on top of them, then escape before the station comes in range.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-25 12:19am

AdmiralKanos wrote: I just can't see this; what kind of military commander walks into a situation, discovers his enemy is a thousand times more powerful and dangerous than he thought, and does not call a retreat?

A dead fool.

All in all the upgrade would definitly shift it much more in EA's favor...if not outright win it for them.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-25 12:21am

Alyeska wrote:They would probably regroup, but not completely retreat. If anything they can use hit and fade tactics against the EA ships using jump points to come out on top of them, then escape before the station comes in range.

"Know your enemy". If they drop into this situation and see this happening, it would surely occur to them that they obviously don't know jack shit about their enemy, and that to continue attacking under these circumstances would be sheer folly.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-25 01:38am

also, Proton torpedos could probably be launched around the planet to attack Minbari in its shadow, as could whatever fighter and armed shuttle complement the Golan has.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-25 02:13am

What is the fighter complement of a Golan? I mean simple TIE fighters assrpe any fighter save maybe the Thirdspace ones with ease

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-25 02:27am

I think that the Minbari should be lured into range of the Golan, and possibly pinned there. They won't be expecting it, and no reason to think that it would be particularily vulnerable. Draw the Minbari into range, and then let the Golan tear them a new asshole. While the Minbari reel from this unexpected attack, have EA flank them and start hammering into them. While EA ships are still inferior to Minbari ones, we're not talking much difference (Remember that EA ships were able to BADLY damage the Gray Co uncil ship at the start of In the Beginning - and they received weapons upgrades from the Narns) They can still pound the fuck out of them.

While I no doubt expect the Minbari to still take a toll on EA, and I doubt EA can utterly wipe out the Minbari fleet, the combination of a Golan and upgraded EA ships will throw them into retreat.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-25 02:31am

I don't think a Golan Arms battle station actually carries any fighters. They're just gun platforms; 50 turbolaser turrets, 24 proton torpedo launchers, and 15 tractor beam projectors for a Golan III, which is about a mile and a half long.

There's really no need to carry fighters in a defense platform like a Golan III when they can be housed on the surface and make orbit in seconds. Too bad; imagine the havoc that a squadron of Firespray patrol craft (aka Slave-1 base model) could wreak in the closely packed Minbari fleet at the Battle of the Line

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-25 02:33am

Darth Wong wrote:I don't think a Golan Arms battle station actually carries any fighters. They're just gun platforms; 50 turbolaser turrets, 24 proton torpedo launchers, and 15 tractor beam projectors for a Golan III, which is about a mile and a half long.

There's really no need to carry fighters in a defense platform like a Golan III when they can be housed on the surface and make orbit in seconds. Too bad; imagine the havoc that a squadron of Firespray patrol craft (aka Slave-1 base model) could wreak in the closely packed Minbari fleet at the Battle of the Line

Actually the tractor beams are a good addition. At the most we're talking "hundreds" of Minbari warships, and if we draw them into close range, the Golan could be tractoring quite a few of the buggers long enough to hammer them with TL fire.

ben · Post by **ben** » 2003-01-25 02:33am

one Golan 3 in geosync? the mimbari go to the other side and ass rapes earth that is assuming the Golan 3 is not equiped with fighters or missiles, torps, etc... but i don't know by giving the EA one less hemishpere to concentrate on and the better sensor tech it just might be able to give them a chance (however small)