Mordor v.s. Taliban-Afghanistan

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-08-10 12:50pm

Well come on, Mordor v.s. USA is just a bit one-sided.

Pakistan is replaced with Mordor, so Mordor has an actual border with Afghanistan. No other countries can interfere.

You know, if you think about it the fact that Mordor has a bigger Air force than
the Taliban kinda makes you blink a bit...

So who wins this match up?

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Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-10 12:58pm

Taliban though disorginized and a little off-balanced still has RPGs and MGs

Making it a rather one-sided fight...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-10 02:03pm

I think that Mordor has a good chance, at this one. Even though the Afghans have RPG's, Mordor has enormous advantages in numbers, and their troops are more highly motivated and almost certainly more capable than the average Taliban. Most Afghan MG's have been there since the Cold War, and are in pretty sorry shape. I think that Mordor and the Forces of Darkness can overrun the Taliban.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-10 03:11pm

MG in sorry shape is not what we heard from the US forces in Afganastan, Several of those caves contined hundreds of still un-opened boxs of guns with that fresh gun smell still intact, The Talibans equipment is not a porblem thanks to the Oil money....

A second of all, Seven people and three MGs on an evelated position could easily hold back 40-90 Troops, Consdering most are Melee it gets ever worse...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-10 03:31pm

Sauron would probably set himself up as a god, after all he was able to fool all of middle earth into thinking he'd repented (bar Gil-galad and Elrond) How hard can mullah Mohammed Omar be?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2002-08-11 12:58am

If Mordor wins, is it better or worse for the average Afghan?

Crossover_Maniac · Post by **Crossover_Maniac** » 2002-08-11 01:01am

{hits the 'both mangled and killed' button}

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-11 11:16am

Sauron would probably set himself up as a god, after all he was able to fool all of middle earth into thinking he'd repented (bar Gil-galad and Elrond) How hard can mullah Mohammed Omar be

Setting himself up as the devil would be much more effective. With little enough effort he could convince the Taliban that the Apocolypse had come and the forces of Mordor were the forces of Hell. Between Sauron and the Nazgul, it would be easy enough. They're invincible and scary as hell.

Against something like that Taliban morale would shatter. They fell apart easily enough once the US went in, how would they hoild up against the Legions of Hell?

Even a few small arms won't matter. Mordor has staggering numbers advantage. Sauron could use orcish wave tactics to overwhelm any resistance and still come out ahead.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-11 12:16pm

Point taken, the orcs have a vast numbers advantage, and will not run away, they never seem to when sauron or tha nazgul are around anyway...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-11 04:45pm

Point taken, the orcs have a vast numbers advantage, and will not run away, they never seem to when sauron or tha nazgul are around anyway...

The Uruk Hai (fighting orcs) are a disciplined, motivated fighting force. They don't break and run except under extraordinary circumstances. The lesser orcs (aka goblins) will unless someone nasty (Balrog, Nazgul, Dragon, etc) is keeping an ye on them.

Plus there are literally millions of Uruk Hai. Sauron (and Morogoth before him) could and did spill their blood like water and come out ahead.

Tanith · Post by **Tanith** » 2002-08-11 06:16pm

Also, the Orcs are very familiar with dark winding caves. So hiding from them in underground passageways and mountain caves wouldn't be a viable tactic for the Taliban either.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-11 06:48pm

The Taliban have a bit more then infantry weapons. If were talking before September 2001, then they can field several hundred tanks and BMP's, about 300 pieces of field artillery, and around 40,000 men. They also have about 20 helicopters, and 20 MiG-21 and Su-17 fighters, six SA-3 SAM sites and a number of ZSU-23-4's.

They'd shread the Orc's at long range. The Terrian would allow realtivly small numbers of troops with machine guns and mortars to dominate huge areas. Armed only with Bows for ranged combat, the Orc's would never stand a chance. And its charge to charge up a mountain.

The Taliban also have alot of trucks and Pickup trucks, which takes care of any mobility advantage the Orcs might have on foot.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-11 11:12pm

They'd shread the Orc's at long range. The Terrian would allow realtivly small numbers of troops with machine guns and mortars to dominate huge areas

But what about enemies that bullets won't touch? Not all of Mordor's warriors could be slain with a built. A Nazgul would simply laugh at a machine gun or artillery and then proceed to massacre the crew. The wraith army could be used against any position that holds out.

Tanith · Post by **Tanith** » 2002-08-11 11:31pm

Stormbringer wrote:But what about enemies that bullets won't touch? Not all of Mordor's warriors could be slain with a built. A Nazgul would simply laugh at a machine gun or artillery and then proceed to massacre the crew. The wraith army could be used against any position that holds out.

The Nazgul have problems with fire. A few incendiary projectiles would do the trick... if the Taliban has enough of those (I wouldn't know).

Also, while the Nazgul themselves are impervious to all normal weaponry, their mounts aren't. And they'd be pretty slow if forced to advance on foot.

The only problem is that the fear aura they generate tend to make shooting at them nigh impossible as it is...

*shrug*

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-11 11:36pm

The Nazgul have problems with fire. A few incendiary projectiles would do the trick... if the Taliban has enough of those (I wouldn't know).

Most likely not. Those aren't exactly common and I doubt they would have an of them.

Nazgul don't like fire true but can be compelled to attack anyway. And it won't kill them one way or the other. Plus they have absolute control over the lesser wraiths and could send them in instead.

Also, while the Nazgul themselves are impervious to all normal weaponry, their mounts aren't. And they'd be pretty slow if forced to advance on foot.

But they still can advance. If their enemies flee or die the wraiths still win.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-12 12:37am

Most likely not. Those aren't exactly common and I doubt they would have an of them.

Nazgul don't like fire true but can be compelled to attack anyway. And it won't kill them one way or the other. Plus they have absolute control over the lesser wraiths and could send them in instead.

Machinegun tracers however are quite common have a quite powerful indindary effect. And an explosion is really little more then a very fast burning fire, which would make eveyrthing from rifle grenades to autocannon to 152mm fire effective. They also were known to use napalm from aircraft fairly often. The Russians also made heavy use of RPO napalm rockets in Afganistan, no doubt some could be found, or bought.

But they still can advance. If their enemies flee or die the wraiths still win.

If they really are all powerful and unstoppable in combat, they why did they not simply storm Minas Tirith on there own? Why did a huge army have to be sent instead? They were only ever used for very speical missions, I don’t see that changing.

Anyway, nine sword-armed warriors spread over thousands of square miles are not going to make much difference anyway. The Taliban have an insane firepower and range advantage, and the terrain is perfect for exploiting it, better in many respects then a board open space.

Plus there are about 30 million land mines in the country, and the areas Mordor will have to first advance through saw the heaviest fighting during the Russian occupation and later Taliban take over, thus they will have very high concentrations.

The Orcs wont know what's happening, and will have no idea of how to clear them other then marching troops over em.

Tanith · Post by **Tanith** » 2002-08-12 03:36am

Sea Skimmer wrote:If they really are all powerful and unstoppable in combat, they why did they not simply storm Minas Tirith on there own? Why did a huge army have to be sent instead? They were only ever used for very speical missions, I don’t see that changing.

Uh... the men of Gondor did flee. Half of more of them had to turn back on the trip to the Black Gate 'cause of the influence of the Nazgul flying overhead. Only the people of Numenorean descent (Aragorn, Faramir, Imrahil...) and Gandalf with the Third Elven Ring (Narya, which uplifted the spirit) had the will to not only resist the Nazgul, but also to inspire confidence among those soldiers closest to them. They were the ones that dragged the rest of the army on to the Black Gate. Similarly, the peoples of Gondor/Rohan were losing the Battle of the Pelenor fields until Aragorn brought in the dead souls (who were not affected by the Nazgul as much) to reinforce them.

Anyway, nine sword-armed warriors spread over thousands of square miles are not going to make much difference anyway. The Taliban have an insane firepower and range advantage, and the terrain is perfect for exploiting it, better in many respects then a board open space.

This, however, is very true. Sauron would need a *lot* of orcs to be able to overwhelm them by sheer numbers. The more advanced weaponry the Taliban can get access to, the worse the prospects get for Sauron's team. But I don't know all that much about the Taliban, so I can really only talk about the LOTR side of the equation. *shrug*

Tanith · Post by **Tanith** » 2002-08-12 03:39am

Uh... the men of Gondor did flee. Half of more of them had to turn back on the trip to the Black Gate 'cause of the influence of the Nazgul flying overhead.

Oh wait... I think it was the Nazgul influence on the Pelenor fields. Not too sure about the trip to the Black Gate... the Nazgul were around, but I'm not sure if they were directly responsible for that incident or if the landscape of Mordor was the reason...

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-08-12 06:46am

Ummm... come on, guys. No matter how pathetic the Talibans are, it is still modern-day army (with machine guns, mortars, etc) against a bunch of Orcs...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-12 08:21am

True, In a battle the Orcs are dead, but that always happens anyway doesn't it?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-12 05:18pm

Machinegun tracers however are quite common have a quite powerful indindary effect. And an explosion is really little more then a very fast burning fire, which would make eveyrthing from rifle grenades to autocannon to 152mm fire effective. They also were known to use napalm from aircraft fairly often. The Russians also made heavy use of RPO napalm rockets in Afganistan, no doubt some could be found, or bought.

Again, let me point out. The Nazgul will attack anyway. Fire bothers them but they can be made to attack anyway. Look at Weathertop, the fire didn't stop them when they had an important mission to accomplish.

If they really are all powerful and unstoppable in combat, they why did they not simply storm Minas Tirith on there own? Why did a huge army have to be sent instead?

Because there were blades specially-made to kill them in Minas Tirith. After all the Numenorian blades did hurt them but the Taliban aren't likely to hve them.

Anyway, nine sword-armed warriors spread over thousands of square miles are not going to make much difference anyway.

The Nazgul were avle to cover the thousands of miles of Middle Earth without a problem. Gotta love those winged steeds. They could also use the wraith army. Same as nazgul just much less power.

The Orcs wont know what's happening, and will have no idea of how to clear them other then marching troops over em.

They would have no problem with simply roundg up civilians and using them to clear ou minefields. Brutal but effective.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-08-12 06:14pm

Sauron has alot of ground to cover in terms of finances. We don't know the state of his treasury and he has never had his ring appraised. We also know that Sauron lacks funding from charities, legitimate business, the sale of arms/narcotics, and from wealthy financiers. I'll give the balance of power to Osama

Tanith · Post by **Tanith** » 2002-08-12 08:55pm

No one's really arguing about the orcs, who are really just canon fodder. In this case, even the Uruk Hai are fairly useless.

It's the Nazgul and the wraiths (as someone mentioned) that are going to be the main problem.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-08-13 08:33pm

Sauron has alot of ground to cover in terms of finances. We don't know the state of his treasury and he has never had his ring appraised. We also know that Sauron lacks funding from charities, legitimate business, the sale of arms/narcotics, and from wealthy financiers. I'll give the balance of power to Osama

Slave labor by mindless minions: Free.

Sauron doesn't need to worry about such things as money. It's not like he pays anyone! He's got an entirely slave/conscript army and plenty of minions for other purposes.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-13 10:44pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Machinegun tracers however are quite common have a quite powerful indindary effect. And an explosion is really little more then a very fast burning fire, which would make eveyrthing from rifle grenades to autocannon to 152mm fire effective. They also were known to use napalm from aircraft fairly often. The Russians also made heavy use of RPO napalm rockets in Afganistan, no doubt some could be found, or bought.

Again, let me point out. The Nazgul will attack anyway. Fire bothers them but they can be made to attack anyway. Look at Weathertop, the fire didn't stop them when they had an important mission to accomplish.

I'd expect capturing the ring of power to be rated a bit higher then running all over the place killing machine gun and mortar teams.

If they really are all powerful and unstoppable in combat, they why did they not simply storm Minas Tirith on there own? Why did a huge army have to be sent instead?
Because there were blades specially-made to kill them in Minas Tirith. After all the Numenorian blades did hurt them but the Taliban aren't likely to hve them.

Thanks for that information. But who knows what the Taliban have found, mabey the ancient Persians made such blades, hid them in the mountains and Bin laden found them while expanding one of his caves.

So they can be killed. We'll then given that they've never faced anything remotely like modern weapons, you really cant say how they would effect them. Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic after all. I dont think they would be killed, but who knows. And your still stuck with just nine men with swoards.

Anyway, nine sword-armed warriors spread over thousands of square miles are not going to make much difference anyway.
The Nazgul were avle to cover the thousands of miles of Middle Earth without a problem. Gotta love those winged steeds. They could also use the wraith army. Same as nazgul just much less power.

The Map of middle Earth provided in the books shows it to be only about 600-700 miles across, the Nazgul never flew more then 300 miles on there mounts, one of which was downed with a single arrow.

Triple AAA will restore them to foot mobility in short order. Stingers and Blowpipes were the real killers, but 220 odd Soviet aircraft fell to gunfire. If they can hit 500 knot Sukhoi's and 150 knot Hinds while under fire, I think a large winged beast that fly's low enough to be struck with a bow should be no problem for the gunners. And the Blowpipes EO guidance would allow its use against them as well.

The Orcs wont know what's happening, and will have no idea of how to clear them other then marching troops over em.
They would have no problem with simply roundg up civilians and using them to clear ou minefields. Brutal but effective.

Not when the area you advance though has three mines more mines then people. And by the same card, the Taliban would not see a problume with shooting those people to protect there fields.

And of course, first they have to figure out whats happening. There just as likely to think the blasts are mortars or grenades, not that they would know what those were.