Major characters in WH40k

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-09-21 02:48am

The Humans have the God-Emperor and the Primarchs, but what do the other races have on that level? I mean, major powerful characters roughly on the level (or as close as anyone gets) for the Eldar, Tau, Orks and others?

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2007-09-21 03:10am

The Eldar have the Pheonix Lords and Chaos has the Daemon Primarchs/exceptional Chaos Marines.

Orks don't really have such figures. Chiefly due to the fact that they would be able to unite waaaay too many Orks to the Status Quo Gods' liking.

The Tau have a few notable individuals, but nothing as crazy-awesome as what the other races have.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2007-09-21 04:57am

Orks have Ghazgull Thrakka, a very powerful ork who is either in touch with Gork and Mork or insane. Either way, orks follow him. He lead the 2nd and 3rd invasions of Armageddon and it was only the surprising resistance inspired by Commisar Yarrick (2nd) and massive amount of forces dedicated to keeping the planet (3rd) that stopped him. He is also very cunning and a fairly competant commander.

Chaos have Abbadon the Fluctuatingly Competant (Horus' successor), Fabius Bile (space marine mad scientist) and Ahriman of the Thousand Suns (Powerful sorceror trying to get into the Black Library).

Eldar have the Phoenix Lords, Prince yserl (sp, former pirate, saviour of what's left of Iyanden.) and until recently had Eldrad Ulthran (old and powerful farseer).

Tau have Commander Farsight (a rebel from the Tau Empire who depending who you ask is being influenced by Chaos/C'Tan/no one), Commander Shadowsun (Farsight's Successor), Aun'shi (ethereal that can fighta little) and Aun'va (head ethereal).

Dark Eldar have Azrubael Vect (most powerful Archaon), Lelith Hesperex (Major wytch cult figure) and Drahzar (master bodybuard).

Imperial Guard have a shitload of characters including COmmisar Yarrick (hero of Armagedon), Lord Solar Macharius (Alexander the Great in space), Gaunt and his ghosts and Ciphias Cain.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2007-09-21 05:48am

And the Necrontyr have the C'tan, which I'm sure our own resident Necronlord is far better equipped to elaborate on.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-09-21 05:49am

I was thinking along the lines of roughly equivalent in political/physical power.

The closest the Eldar appear to have, from what I've been reading, sounds like Eldrad Ulthan, assuming you can believe the information gathered from an Eldar ranger.

Ghazgull Thrakka, Prince Yserl, Farsight, Shadowsun, the ethereals and the Imperial Guard characters are all noticeably further down the totem pole of power scale, aren't they?

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2007-09-21 07:05am

Did they ever put out stats for Cain, because I think that so far he's just been in the books. He would be a very interesting character to have in an army, probably with some very strange special abilities focused on keeping him alive.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-09-21 07:39am

The eldar have the Laughing God and various Avatars of Khaine.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-09-21 07:44am

Crom wrote:The closest the Eldar appear to have, from what I've been reading, sounds like Eldrad Ulthan, assuming you can believe the information gathered from an Eldar ranger.

Yeah, but he died recently.

Ghazgull Thrakka, Prince Yserl, Farsight, Shadowsun, the ethereals and the Imperial Guard characters are all noticeably further down the totem pole of power scale, aren't they?

Ghazgkull and Yserl (or however you spell his name) are pretty much at that level, given the rather more ... 'fractional' qualities of their species. And the Ethereals are the most powerful members of the Tau species, while Farsight and Shadowsun are two of the most important commanders in all of Tau history. Lord Solar Macharius is similar as well, as would Ursarkar Creed of Cadia - they're technically only generals, but their names carry lots of historical weight.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-09-21 08:02am

Apart from the Adeptus Astrades didn't the Lord Solar title carry at least as much power as the title of Warmaster (aka almost as much power as Horus had before turning to Chaos)

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-09-21 08:11am

Lord Revan wrote:Apart from the Adeptus Astrades didn't the Lord Solar title carry at least as much power as the title of Warmaster (aka almost as much power as Horus had before turning to Chaos)

That I remember, Lord Solar basically is equivalent to Warmaster. They don't use the latter thanks to Horus.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-09-21 08:15am

Adrian Laguna wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:Apart from the Adeptus Astrades didn't the Lord Solar title carry at least as much power as the title of Warmaster (aka almost as much power as Horus had before turning to Chaos)
That I remember, Lord Solar basically is equivalent to Warmaster. They don't use the latter thanks to Horus.

kind of like why the title of Führer is pretty much not used at all in modern germany even though it just means leader.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2007-09-21 08:59am

Don't they still use the Warmaster title to at least refer to the big honchos in charge of Crusades? I distinctly remember references to "Warmaster" Slaydo and Macaroth from the Gaut novels...

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2007-09-21 09:09am

SiegeTank wrote:Don't they still use the Warmaster title to at least refer to the big honchos in charge of Crusades? I distinctly remember references to "Warmaster" Slaydo and Macaroth from the Gaut novels...

according to the gaurd codex, it depends on the general mood of the era, meaning that sometimes they do use but other times, not to not invoke similarities to the arch-heretic Horus.

either way Warmaster or equilevant is basically the highest (military) rank anyone could hope get in the Imperium.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2007-09-22 06:25am

Ford Prefect wrote:Yeah, but he died recently.

Was there any evidence on how powerful Eldrad Ulthran actually was? You would think he would have foreseen his own death considering he was part of the battle against Abaddon.

Ford Prefect wrote:Ghazgkull and Yserl (or however you spell his name) are pretty much at that level, given the rather more ... 'fractional' qualities of their species. And the Ethereals are the most powerful members of the Tau species, while Farsight and Shadowsun are two of the most important commanders in all of Tau history. Lord Solar Macharius is similar as well, as would Ursarkar Creed of Cadia - they're technically only generals, but their names carry lots of historical weight.

Out of curiosity, could creatures on the level Ghazgkull or Prince Yriel take on a Primarch? I know the Emperor is king of Power-Scale Mountain, but it sounds like the Primarchs have been exaggerated by history.

NecronLord wrote:The eldar have the Laughing God and various Avatars of Khaine.

I take it that the LG and the Avatars of Khaine are above Human-Form Emperor but below Star-Child Emperor, in power?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-09-22 08:52am

Crom wrote:Was there any evidence on how powerful Eldrad Ulthran actually was? You would think he would have foreseen his own death considering he was part of the battle against Abaddon.

Seeing his own death is spectularly special - when he fought Abaddon in personal combat he saw his own death in a million different ways. The nature of his precognition gave him numerous 'strands of fate', any one of which could become the future. As it turns out, if he avoided his death, the Blackstone above Cadia probably would have burnt the surface clean, even with the Necron assitance.

Ford Prefect wrote:Out of curiosity, could creatures on the level Ghazgkull or Prince Yriel take on a Primarch? I know the Emperor is king of Power-Scale Mountain, but it sounds like the Primarchs have been exaggerated by history.

I've not read any of the Horus Heresy books, which has most of their combat related feats in them. However, Sanguinus, after days of fighting on the walls of the Imperial Palace was able to hold the Ultimate Gate almost single handedly, then had a war stopping duel with a Bloodthirster, was tossed from on high with such force that he cratered the ceramite road, then got up and snapped the Bloodthirster's back over his knee.

Admittedly, this event may have been covered in the HH books, which means that it might have happened differently, though in White Dwarf, Primarchs have been noted as being able to solo Greater Daemons. Though it depends on the Greater Daemon - Ka'Bhanda took on the entire Blood Angels Legion and Sanguinus at the same time and won, following it up with a heavy duty mocking of Sanny.

However, if I was going to bet money in a fight between Ghaz or Yriel (that's his name!) and Primarch (any Primarch), I'd be betting on the Primarch. Though other characters do have some pretty awesome feats of raw badassitude, such as Maugan Ra versus the titanic worm in the battle on Iyanden.

I take it that the LG and the Avatars of Khaine are above Human-Form Emperor but below Star-Child Emperor, in power?

I don't think the Eldar Gods have many quantifiable feats - Khaine was able to 'defeat' the Nightbringer in personal combat, though. If you can call that a win.

The Star Child would probably be more powerful, but there's no knowing about the actual validity of the theory. As I understand it, the Star Child is supposed to fuck all four of the Chaos Gods over mano-y-mano, and one Chaos God pretty much ate the majority of the Eldar panthenon (though it's been some time since I've read up on the Fall - I'm pretty sure Vaul was dead by then after his battle with the Void Dragon, but I don't know other casulties from the War in Heaven and such).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-09-22 09:00am

Slanessh was superfuelled at the time, with the energy of its birth. It's no longer 'easily the most powerful of the chaos gods' after all.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-09-22 09:09am

NecronLord wrote:Slanessh was superfuelled at the time, with the energy of its birth. It's no longer 'easily the most powerful of the chaos gods' after all.

Fair point; though depending on the source you use (and this one is pretty suspect) Slannesh was only able to stalemate Khorne when they were fighting over Khaine, before Khaine exploded and made the Avatars. Of course, there's another story which says that it was Khaine and Slannesh duking it out, with the Laughing God pulling faces at Slannesh from behind Khaine.

Oh Eldar Mythology, you bastard you.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-09-22 09:26am

According to one of the WFB background books (so it's of questionable relevance) Khorne and Khaine were the same entity, until Slanessh tore them apart.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2007-09-22 10:43am

Crom wrote:I was thinking along the lines of roughly equivalent in political/physical power.

The closest the Eldar appear to have, from what I've been reading, sounds like Eldrad Ulthan, assuming you can believe the information gathered from an Eldar ranger.

Ghazgull Thrakka, Prince Yserl, Farsight, Shadowsun, the ethereals and the Imperial Guard characters are all noticeably further down the totem pole of power scale, aren't they?

Then by the terms you want there isn't really anyone on the same (political) power level. The Emperor was pretty much in charge of the Imperium. No ifs, no buts he was head man and that's final. The Imperium has a clear head of state, or nowadays a clear group of rulers (High Lord of Terra).

The only other races in 40K that have such a a clear leadership are the Tyranids with the Hive Mind and Necrons with the C'Tan (though IIRC arguably the C'Tan aren't united). Maybe the Tau as well, as they're lead by the ethereals and IIRC Aun'Va is head ethereal.

Ghazgull, Yserl, Eldra, Farsight, etc. are all at the top of their totem pole, just that within their species there's more than one pole.

Regarding physical power, in Fulgrim an Eldar avatar gives a primach a decent fight, so things like greater deamons should be on that level and C'Tan should surpass that easily.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2007-09-22 12:02pm

NecronLord wrote:According to one of the WFB background books (so it's of questionable relevance) Khorne and Khaine were the same entity, until Slanessh tore them apart.

Khaine is a little more complicated in WF. He's a lot like a version of Khorne that is okay with sorcery when worshipped by elves (the Dark Elves worship him full time, the other elves only just before and during a battle) down to marking his priests with brass coloured eyes.

Humans also worship him as a god of murder, according him the place of being the brother of Morr (god of death and dreams) in the human pantheon as the god of murder who steals souls from his brother. It's a secret, illegal cult of stealth killers in the Old World.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2007-09-22 05:29pm

Khaine is a little more complicated in WF. He's a lot like a version of Khorne that is okay with sorcery when worshipped by elves (the Dark Elves worship him full time, the other elves only just before and during a battle) down to marking his priests with brass coloured eyes.

He pretty much is just an aspect of Khorne though. Hell, the Witch Elves even have khornate symbols.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2007-09-22 05:39pm

He's Khorne with orgies and sorcery, which are major deviations from the Blood God's usual preferences.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2007-09-22 05:50pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:He's Khorne with orgies and sorcery, which are major deviations from the Blood God's usual preferences.

hence the "aspect" aspect (heh)

Lets not forget that Khorne, according to Liber Chaotica gains power from anything that sheds blood, regardless of how its done, and mystical rites are still a part of WHFB and 40k Khornes lexicon, Bray Shamans of Khorne can summon Daemons, use certain magical abilities, physical enhancement magic and its ilk.

And the orgies usually include the bathing in freshly shed blood, and the eating of hot steaming torn flesh etc....

The Chaos gods aren't quite so narrowly defined as the basic info suggests.

Oh, and the Darkblade series and Liber Chaotica pretty much write them as one.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2007-09-22 06:09pm

white_rabbit wrote:
Oh, and the Darkblade series and Liber Chaotica pretty much write them as one.

I'm quite aware of the similarities (I brought some of them up and I quite enjoy the Darkblade series), but Khaine's differences to bog standard Khorne worship and practice are substantial. Khaine's unquestionably an aspect of Khorne in WF, but the religious practices and his place in the pantheon(s) are different enough to be considered a separate religion even though they both honor the same entity.

On a related matter, the Tome of Salvation includes mention of a minor god of sensual indulgence whose worship is now banned in the Empire and seems to be associated with Slaanesh in a similar manner to the way Khaine is associated with Khorne. The god (I can't remember his name of hand) is sort of a more socially acceptable "Slaanesh light." Slaanesh cults sometimes masquerade as being associated with him to suck in more worshipers.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-09-23 05:04am

NecronLord wrote:According to one of the WFB background books (so it's of questionable relevance) Khorne and Khaine were the same entity, until Slanessh tore them apart.

Khaine being an aspect of Khorne (oh the irony) is present in 40k as well - that was the reason why Khorne was duking it out with Slannesh.