Enterprise vs. Concordia

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-27 11:06pm

As part of the biannual UFLEET wargames, a Confederation-class dreadnought squares off against a Sovereign-class starship in a test of performance and tactical acumen.

NCC-1701-E USS Enterprise commanded by Jean-Luc Picard - pre-Nemesis, so Riker is still Number One.

CVS-65 TCS Concordia commanded by Rear Admiral Geoffrey Tolwyn, circa 2666. The ship has a full fighter wing.

The two ships fight around an asteroid belt. Opening distance is 500,000 kilometers.

FIGHT~

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-27 11:15pm

Concordia wins, as she launches a full deck alpha strike consisting
of Sabre and Broadswords with heavy torpedoes, with Epees and Rapiers
doing protection, and essentially overwhelms the E-E with too many
targets to successfully prosecute efficiently.....

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-28 01:12am

"Warp 3 evasive" -Picard, Peak Performance

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-28 01:15am

Uraniun235 wrote:"Warp 3 evasive" -Picard, Peak Performance

... which moved the ship a few hundred metres. Sorry, but you'll have to do better than that.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-28 01:25am

In open space Concordia would win, with astroids for cover its becomes even easiler for the bombers to blow E-E to tiny bits.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-28 10:36am

The Enterprise could easily stay out of range of the Concordia while picking off the Concordia's fighters. From there it just takes long range bombardment.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-28 10:39am

Alyeska wrote:The Enterprise could easily stay out of range of the Concordia while picking off the Concordia's fighters. From there it just takes long range bombardment.

Not hardly. Enough of the fighters will get through to maul the Ent-E. The fighter carry some damn big torpedoes, hundreds of megatons by most calcs, and some will get through.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-28 10:59am

Stormbringer wrote:
Alyeska wrote:The Enterprise could easily stay out of range of the Concordia while picking off the Concordia's fighters. From there it just takes long range bombardment.
Not hardly. Enough of the fighters will get through to maul the Ent-E. The fighter carry some damn big torpedoes, hundreds of megatons by most calcs, and some will get through.

The Enterprise can outrun said fighters and manuever clear of missile locks. Only the bombers are a threat and they can only launch 1 torpedo at a time. Sending out Epees with torpedoes take retrofiting the fighter, something they don't have time for. There is also the speed at which the Concordia can launch its fighters, not THAT fast.

Vejut · Post by **Vejut** » 2003-01-28 11:41am

"Long range bombardment" Alyeska? Trek is never shown shooting at anything beyond visual range. Bob would know for sure, but I'm reasonably certain WC ships (at least the capitol variaety) are slightly longer ranged than that....

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-28 11:45am

Just how fast do you think the enterprise can move at? not THAT fast..

Seriously though, It would not be able to outrun the fighters who would be continually pounding at the shields...eventually those would fail and do remember the fighters also carry missles which are weaker than the torps yes....but they still pack a hellava firepower

The torps themselves are not the slow beasties you assume them to be either, they are reasonably fast...and could total the Ent with a couple of good hits.

The Concordia herself was also heavily armed if I remember rightly

Concordia battle group takes the victory as the Ent is pummelled into a million pieces

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-28 11:50am

Vejut wrote:"Long range bombardment" Alyeska? Trek is never shown shooting at anything beyond visual range. Bob would know for sure, but I'm reasonably certain WC ships (at least the capitol variaety) are slightly longer ranged than that....

Trek ships have fired BVR before. WC ships don't have that good of range when it comes to firing on eachother. Their acceleration also isn't the best.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-28 11:53am

Coaan wrote:Just how fast do you think the enterprise can move at? not THAT fast..

They can move significantly faster then observed WC combat speeds.

Seriously though, It would not be able to outrun the fighters who would be continually pounding at the shields...eventually those would fail and do remember the fighters also carry missles which are weaker than the torps yes....but they still pack a hellava firepower

Yes, it would outrun the fighters. WC fighters at full after burner can't even make 1km per second. The Bombers must lock on the Enterprise first. That takes time and they can't manuever greatly. The Enterprise can simply manuever to avoid torpedo locks.

The torps themselves are not the slow beasties you assume them to be either, they are reasonably fast...and could total the Ent with a couple of good hits.

Torpedoes ARE slow.

The Concordia herself was also heavily armed if I remember rightly

Yes, but the range is not the best.

Concordia battle group takes the victory as the Ent is pummelled into a million pieces

They will have a hard time hitting the Enterprise.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-28 11:56am

one sure advantage the Ent-E has is the tactical use of it's FTL drive in this situation. WC fighters, no matter how fast their sublight drive could not box in the E-E. The E-E could draw out the concordia's stike fighters, run away at full warp, then turn to flank the concordia while it's strike wing of fighters trailed behind. At theat point it would make sense to warp in and out in multiple hit and fade runs. WC gunners simply have no experience traking FTL targets so the E-E must use that to it's advantage staying at warp as much as possible dropping out for a few quick volleys at random intervals on different attack vectors.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-28 11:58am

Consider for a moment all they need is one solid hit, Now, as the Ent is evading all the fire being thrown at it, they would be launching more to engage it correct?...it's simply a case of flood the skies with bombers (as many as they have)

The Enterprise cannot evade forever, no manuver is totally safe

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-28 12:02pm

Coaan wrote:Consider for a moment all they need is one solid hit,

but you simply cannot state that as fact! That argument works if we are dealing with an ISD's multi gigaton TL's, because we know the yield is a multi gigaton one, but not here. Let me ask you this, what is the yield of this one hit wonder weapon? until you answer that your point is nothing.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-01-28 12:18pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Coaan wrote:Consider for a moment all they need is one solid hit,
but you simply cannot state that as fact! That argument works if we are dealing with an ISD's multi gigaton TL's, because we know the yield is a multi gigaton one, but not here. Let me ask you this, what is the yield of this one hit wonder weapon? until you answer that your point is nothing.

I didn't mean one solid hit to destroy them, it might have sounded like that but it wasn't

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-01-28 12:34pm

IMHO E-E takes it. I've played all the WC games, and it's not hard to bring down fighter shields with a few good hits. And in WC you can shoot down the torps, but I don't know if you can assume the E-E can/will also.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-28 12:35pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:one sure advantage the Ent-E has is the tactical use of it's FTL drive in this situation. WC fighters, no matter how fast their sublight drive could not box in the E-E.

And we have seen the Feds use their FTL in a combat situation....when?

And we have seen the Feds employ real tactics......when?

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-01-28 12:35pm

apocolypse wrote:IMHO E-E takes it. I've played all the WC games, and it's not hard to bring down fighter shields with a few good hits, and IIRC phasers are more powerful than most WC fighter weapons. Also in WC you can shoot down the torps, but I don't know if you can assume the E-E can/will also.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-01-28 12:36pm

IMHO E-E takes it. I've played all the WC games, and it's not hard to bring down fighter shields with a few good hits, and IIRC phasers are more powerful than most WC fighter weapons. Also in WC you can shoot down the torps, but I don't know if you can assume the E-E can/will also.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-01-28 12:37pm

Damn, sorry, can someone get rid of my accidental quote of myself.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-28 12:50pm

apocolypse wrote:IMHO E-E takes it. I've played all the WC games, and it's not hard to bring down fighter shields with a few good hits, and IIRC phasers are more powerful than most WC fighter weapons.

And Phasers have been shown to have piss poor effects against armor or
heavy materials.

TCS Concordia Stats:

Front Armor
500 cm

Rear Armor
500 cm

Right/Left Armor
400 cm

TCS Concordia has FOUR FUCKING METRES MINIMUM of ARMOR
on her. no way the E-E can penetrate that in enough time with
phasers before Concordia replies with her antimatter guns and
severely damages the E-E.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-28 12:53pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:one sure advantage the Ent-E has is the tactical use of it's FTL drive in this situation. WC fighters, no matter how fast their sublight drive could not box in the E-E.
And we have seen the Feds use their FTL in a combat situation....when?

And we have seen the Feds employ real tactics......when?

i'm simply saying what i think is a logical course of action in this situation.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-28 12:59pm

MKSheppard wrote:
apocolypse wrote:IMHO E-E takes it. I've played all the WC games, and it's not hard to bring down fighter shields with a few good hits, and IIRC phasers are more powerful than most WC fighter weapons.
And Phasers have been shown to have piss poor effects against armor or
heavy materials.

TCS Concordia Stats:

Front Armor
500 cm

Rear Armor
500 cm

Right/Left Armor
400 cm

TCS Concordia has FOUR FUCKING METRES MINIMUM of ARMOR
on her. no way the E-E can penetrate that in enough time with
phasers before Concordia replies with her antimatter guns and
severely damages the E-E.

The E-D has drilled through over 40 km of solid rock in 19 seconds.

Besides, that is the comparison armor rating.

http://www.wcnews.com/ships/wcsopiranha.shtml

Do you really think that 12 meter fighter really has 2 meters of armor on the whole thing?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-28 01:14pm

Alyeska wrote: The E-D has drilled through over 40 km of solid rock in 19 seconds.

After heavy phaser modifications, if I recall correctly, and lets not forget
NDF effects, which don't work on dense materials, like hull armor....

Do you really think that 12 meter fighter really has 2 meters of armor on the whole thing?

WC2 era fighters have 6 to 10 cm of armor on them. 18 cm on the Broadswords.