Realistic alternate histories?

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-01-27 11:35pm

I'm writing a screenplay, and maybe later a novel on a device that lets you go through alternate dimensions(histories), my question is, can ya'll provide me with some VERY realisic alternate histories?

I also need one where the nazis were able to control North America by the 1980s, and by not nuking it off the face of the Earth, if possible.

ANY alternate histories would be appreciated, and please tell me how it happened(in the real world and the alternate one).

Thank you.

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-28 12:59am

Umm... a realistic scenario in which the nazis controlled north america is completely non-existent. Better look somewhere else.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-28 01:09am

jaeger115 wrote:Umm... a realistic scenario in which the nazis controlled north america is completely non-existent. Better look somewhere else.

A realistic scenario where the Nazis conquer Russia east of the Volga is completely non-existant, for that matter.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-28 01:33am

The only way I can see it even being a possibility is a radical rewrite of Hitler's personality whereby he and Stalin would be less ideologically diametrically opposed and would actually hold their alliances with each other. Only without the threat of Soviet Russia looming over him would Hitler have any chance at victory. It would require a lot of other improbables, though, like the US not getting involved right away (whcih would require a fundamental change in Japanese strategy) and Operation Seelowe actually being launched and succeeding. It'll be hard to make such a thing feasible.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-28 01:42am

Sea Lion succeeding is less likely then Germany deploying an ICBM with 10000-ton throw weight in 1942

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2003-01-28 02:06am

Let the Confederacy win the Civil War and develop Nazism domesticaly. Hitler couldn't even invade Britain, that scenario was simulated by British & German officers and even with an annihillating defeat of the RAF the invasion would fail. Now imagine all the SeeLöve problems magnified a thousand times in a cross Atlantic invasion... Not even the US would be able to pull that of without trans Atlantic bases.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-28 02:11am

CJvR wrote:Let the Confederacy win the Civil War and develop Nazism domesticaly. Hitler couldn't even invade Britain, that scenario was simulated by British & German officers and even with an annihillating defeat of the RAF the invasion would fail. Now imagine all the SeeLöve problems magnified a thousand times in a cross Atlantic invasion... Not even the US would be able to pull that of without trans Atlantic bases.

The thing about having Nazi's developed domestically is, there not Nazi's. They might hold similar views, but they won't be the same. The different cultures ensure that.

Just look at all the variations you get with Communist states , the only ones that are the same where generally the result of the USSR cramming it down the states throat with a rifle butt.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-01-28 02:22am

Have the politics work out differently, and have germany not be involved in the first major rounds of fighting. What if Stalin invaded British possessions, kicking off a war wih the traditional Allied powers that crippled all involved parties while Germany stayed neutral due to its scrupulously correct observance of the military limitations imposed on it(correct as far as anyone could be bothered to determine while in the middle of a war with Stalin and Mao).
Hell, have the nazi movement presented as an option for ending the great Depression, where people dissatisfied with Roosevelt's lack of progress demanded his impeachment, and the adoption of the form of government that had done so well in turning Germany around.

Ro Jo-Mu · Post by **Ro Jo-Mu** » 2003-01-28 06:05am

Check out Harry Turtledove for alternative history. He's kind of already done this with the Great War/American Empire series. And his Worldwar and Darkness series are great too.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-28 07:11am

Have the Nazis launch ICBMs from trebuchets and taunt the English into submission. It's the most realistic you'll get.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2003-01-28 10:29am

FaxModem1 wrote:lso need one where the nazis were able to control North America by the 1980s, and by not nuking it off the face of the Earth, if possible.

Uhmm nearly impossible.
What about an american fascist party founded by Charles Lindburgh & Henry
in the the 1930-39 period?

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2003-01-28 11:17am

Thunderfire wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:lso need one where the nazis were able to control North America by the 1980s, and by not nuking it off the face of the Earth, if possible.
Uhmm nearly impossible.
What about an american fascist party founded by Charles Lindburgh & Henry
in the the 1930-39 period?

Been done. Anyone else remember GURPS: Alternate Worlds?

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-28 02:03pm

Books one and two of GURPS alternate Earths one of the wilder ones has a high tech Islamic society

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-28 05:52pm

high tech islamic society really isnt that hard to concieve. before the crusades the middle east was very advanced compared to the rest of the world. only china rivaled islamic nations and china went into decline thanks to "getting religion". Islam was a pretty good religion back then, Muslims believed that if all is gods creation the learning the true nature of the world is learning about god, so blind faith before science was almost frowned upon (tho not entirely because they were good with maths not history

)

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-28 07:43pm

Yes, but once the last Caliph was killed by the Mongols, they began settling into fundamentalism. Their culture was in a slow but steady decline from that point on.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-28 07:58pm

Thunderfire wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:lso need one where the nazis were able to control North America by the 1980s, and by not nuking it off the face of the Earth, if possible.
Uhmm nearly impossible.
What about an american fascist party founded by Charles Lindburgh & Henry
in the the 1930-39 period?

Also KKK during the 1920s. If not for a sex scandal involving their leader, the KKK would have been a power in 1930s. They would have probably been sympathetic to the Nazi cause.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-01-28 10:59pm

You could do one where Genghis Khan didn't die when he did, and the Mongol empire stretches to the Bay of Biscay.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-28 11:18pm

If you wanna get really weird, you could have the K-T extinction asteroid miss and have a Clarketech-equipped dinosaur civilization dominating the entire galaxy. Frankly, that's more realistic than the Nazis dominating North America in the 1990s.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-28 11:23pm

As long as it doesn't involve the God damn American Civil War (like half of all alt-history stories seem to do) I'll be happy.

What about one where nukes were used during the Korean War, or that the USSR landed on the Moon first?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-29 12:37am

What about one where Germany actually developed the bomb first? I could see them using that to possibly get a truce declared in the war.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-29 01:01am

Well in this Islmic civilization they discovered steam power in the 9th or 10 century Ad and used Iraqui +Saudi oil to power there indusytrial revolution

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-01-29 01:04am

The Dark wrote:What about one where Germany actually developed the bomb first? I could see them using that to possibly get a truce declared in the war.

Not really possible. They kinda alienated all their best nuclear physicists.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-29 01:19am

Beowulf wrote:
The Dark wrote:What about one where Germany actually developed the bomb first? I could see them using that to possibly get a truce declared in the war.
Not really possible. They kinda alienated all their best nuclear physicists.

There were still a few working for them, and according to a Dr. Bethe who knew Heisenberg, he never even considered the construction of one. If he had done serious work into it, rather than use the program to preserve physicsts' lives, it's possible that they could actually have developed a bomb. The Allies were concerned enough to send an assassin after Heisenberg, though the necessary prerequisites for his activation never occurred. Heisenberg never even calculated the critical mass of U235, because he never believed the supplies would arrive, and thus the calculations would not be needed. While the tapes made at Farm Hall do show a gross overestimate by Heisenberg of the amount of uranium necessary for critical mass, asking him that would be like asking Stephen Hawking...while both work in physics, neither (AFAIK) has calculated the necessary U235 for critical mass. If Heisenberg had taken the bomb seriously and asked Speer for real funding, it's possible that the Germans could have had a bomb.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-29 01:23am

The Dark wrote:What about one where Germany actually developed the bomb first? I could see them using that to possibly get a truce declared in the war.

Germany had no chance of getting a bomb

http://pub82.ezboard.com/fhistorypoliti ... D=58.topic

And even fi they did, they had no delivery system. So they also need to spend a huge amount of resources also getting a giant bomber. Now even if they could do that, not fucking likely, the B-29 program cost billions, they have to get it past thousands of fighters. Even if that happened, they wipe out one or two cites. Then the vast allied bomber fleets load up poison gas and exterminate Germany.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-29 01:30am

I've read about the Alsos stuff. The evidence from Alsos basically agrees that Heisenberg didn't try. I'm positing what if he did try. I'll agree that they would have had to develop a delivery system, and that's another thing that would have to be counterfactual. If Nazi Germany's going to win, though, I feel that this is the most likely way. Entirely subjective, but I haven't seen any better ideas.

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Realistic alternate histories?

Realistic alternate histories?

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