40K: Human Ages in Eisenhorn (some spoilers)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

While reading Uts' copy of the Eisenhorn Omnibus I made a remark concerning the age of Magos Bure of the Adeptus Mechanicus in Malleus, since it struck me as incredible.

He commented that outside of the omnibus, he had never come across such long-spanning ages in any of the fluff from the codexes and such, the oldest ages he could recall were somewhere in the low one-hundreds. I'll admit that right now that my own experience with the 40K fluff isn't terribly deep.

Abnett makes frequent reference to augmentation surgeries and rejuvenation treatments in connection with such long lifespans. I didn't really get an idea of how widespread such treatment was within the Imperium, though, and many "ordinary" characters are mentioned as having ages comparable to our own (30s, 40s, 50s, etc...)

As best as I could determine, some of the characters' ages break down like this:

Medea Betancore was around 80 by the end of Hereticus, though with the attitude and behavior of someone still in their 20s, and is mentioned in the epilogue notes to have disappeared when she almost 175.
Alizebeth Bequin was 173 when she was blasted into a psychic coma.
Gregor Eisenhorn himself was about 190 at the end of Hereticus.
Commodus Voke was 405 when he was killed.
Uber Aemos was something like 425 when he died.
Magos Bure was at least 700 years old to Eisenhorn's direct knowledge, though it's implied that he could be much older.

So is this another case of Abnett kind of doing his own thing (which from discussions here I've gotten the impression that he does from time to time), or are such ages consistent with the rest of the property?

[Imperial Overlord]

The ages in Eisenhorn as consistent with other in universe fluff. If you have access to advanced med tech in 40K, you can live a very long time.

[Lord Revan]

and don't warp travel affect your aging so you could be biologically much younger then what you actual birthdate would suggest.

[NecronLord]

Being attached to an inquisitor, and there's only a few million such individuals in the galaxy, is a good way to get life extension. As is being a senior tech priest. Yeah.

[Academia Nut]

As a non-Abnett source, Comissar Ciaphas Cain died when he was "in his second century", which is usually interpretted as him being >200 years old, give or take a few years for the vaguarities of the Warp. At the very least this means that he was over 100. And since the Inquisitor who was compiling his memoirs in a readable format was a contemporary with Cain, she can be no younger than couple of decades from him, if she is not older.

And while not quite the same, the point needs to be made that Space Marines started off as normal humans but after being altered can easily reach multiple centuries of age (Chapter Master Dante is 1100 by the end of M41), to say nothing of the fact that marines encased in dreadnoughts can live 10,000+ years, so obvious the technology exists in universe to perform significant life extensions. The rich and powerful having access to such levels of technology is not out of line.

[[R_H]]

How wide spread is rejuvenation and augmentation? I vaguely remember the book mentionning that the security chief (ex Arbites) for the estate on Gudrun was ~150 years old when he retired from the Arbites (a few years/decades from achieving a high rank). Do members of law enforcement (excluding the Inquisition) get more access to rejuv and aug than other civilian government branches (Ecclisiarchy etc.)?

[Imperial Overlord]

How wide spread is rejuvenation and augmentation? I vaguely remember the book mentionning that the security chief (ex Arbites) for the estate on Gudrun was ~150 years old when he retired from the Arbites (a few years/decades from achieving a high rank). Do members of law enforcement (excluding the Inquisition) get more access to rejuv and aug than other civilian government branches (Ecclisiarchy etc.)?

Depends. On a feral world, it is going to be pretty much unavailable. On a civilized world with advanced tech, its going to be much more common.

Arbites aren't merely law enforcement, they're adeptus, members of the class of Imperial servants who have the job of shooting a world's Imperial Commander if he gets out of line. Adeptus and high ranking military officers have good access to rejuv and advanced medical care.

[Adrian Laguna]

There are other characters who die live a long time in the Trilogy. In an Eisenhorn short story a nobleman dies in his 80s and the good Inquisitor laments that he was struck down in the prime of his life. The conductor of a train, though note it's a luxury train, states that's he's been doing the job for well over a 100 years, the fact that he's part machine probably has something to do with it. Then there's that bastard Heldane, he appears first in 240M41 and dies in 745M41. Assuming he's 20 when we first meet him, the guy lived five and a half centuries. And this despite getting some pretty horrific injuries when he was around 170 years of age.

[Teleros]

I believe the 3rd / 4th edition rulebook makes note of the top AdMech members living for thousands of years. Admittedly completely nuts, but thousands of years old nonetheless.

[Connor MacLeod]

I believe the 3rd / 4th edition rulebook makes note of the top AdMech members living for thousands of years. Admittedly completely nuts, but thousands of years old nonetheless.

In the new DA book there's an AdMech guy who lives that long, though he's basically almost fully mechanical now. Also, once you get to that age you're either basically inhuman (a robot in all respectS) or you're insane.

And only the AdMech can live that long. Others only last centuries at most (Draco comments on something to that effect WRT to the members of the Hydra conspiracy in the 1st Inquisition War novel, IIRC.)

Inquisitor Horst was around 300 or so IIRC in Shadow Point, and given how he looked (seventies or eighties) I believe I conjectured that he might live to be 400 or 500. The Inquisitor Lord Eisenhorn served in the trilogy was also fairly old when he attained his position and IIRC eisenhorn said he might last there for centuries, which suggests similar age-timeframes.

Generally though to access such things you need to be very rich or very well off. Just how rich or well off may depend on location. Given their general overcrowding, for example, most Hive Worlds probably greatly restrict aging therapies (as if you need another factor contributing ot overcrowding.)

By contrast, In Ravenor one well off (but hardly the most important) businessman had access to life-prolonging technology that extended him to his second century. I think it was an Agri world, but I'd have to check.

Bear in midn that all of the above is basically chemical/drug based "anti-aging". Turning yourself into a cyborg (via augmentic/bionic implants) doesn't count (And you can get augmentics for a great many components, though even then I am sure there are certain things, like the nervous system, which cannot be easily replaced.)

And not all anti-aging methods are the same. One odd method mentioned in "Chapter War" was present only to the leader of a Demi-Hive world (one of those lower population Hive Worlds that have not yet polluted their enviroment outiside of a hive is an ash waste and only have " billions" of people.) where she was required to be linked to some sort of rejuvenation throne/chair (or a big, bulky rejuvenation device that she had to remain linked up to in order for the chemicals to be circulated throughout their body.) It was something quite different from what is shown in other books.

[Connor MacLeod]

and don't warp travel affect your aging so you could be biologically much younger then what you actual birthdate would suggest.

It can. It can also accelerate your aging so that when you arrive you're a lifeless h usk. (Which I believe has been mentioned in some source.) Time in the Warp can be highly variable.

[Adrian Laguna]

In Malleus, Eisenhorn notes that 300+ is "no age" given juvenant drugs, cybernetic enhancements, or sorcery.

The last one is important, it seems the Warp can make a person effectively ageless. It is probably easiest to attain this by serving the Gods of Chaos and pleasing them, however it seems that merely studying the Warp can allow a person to achieve both great power and a truly staggering life-span.

[fgalkin]

In Malleus, Eisenhorn notes that 300+ is "no age" given juvenant drugs, cybernetic enhancements, or sorcery.

The last one is important, it seems the Warp can make a person effectively ageless. It is probably easiest to attain this by serving the Gods of Chaos and pleasing them, however it seems that merely studying the Warp can allow a person to achieve both great power and a truly staggering life-span.

Well, given that Chaos Space Marines are all 10,000+ years old, that much is certain.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[NecronLord]

Well, given that Chaos Space Marines are all 10,000+ years old, that much is certain.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Many have not experienced that time. Dark Apostle has Word Bearers that have only experienced a few centuries since the Heresy, if I recall correctly...

Some have been recruited since, and there are many marines that have turned to chaos that never joined one of the legions, but are just from subsequent defections (the main thrust of the fluff in the latest CSM codex).

[Adrian Laguna]

Many have not experienced that time. Dark Apostle has Word Bearers that have only experienced a few centuries since the Heresy, if I recall correctly...

Storm of Iron, on the other hand, has a few characters who have very explicitly been endlessly warring for the last 10k years. Which is why they so consistently manage to outmanoeuvre the Imperial Guard defenders and the Imperial Fists.

[white_rabbit]

While reading DA I wondered whether or not the maelstrom is any different to the Eye when it comes to temporal fucking.

Personally I think it makes sense that the more devoted "cult" chaos marines might have survived 10k years doing their thing, while Undivided blokes like the WB and the Alphas, who also spend a lot of time out and about in the greater galaxy might not benefit so much.

That said, we still haven't really had much reference to old age actually killing a marine.

Iacton Qurze and Furion of the Blood Angels are the only two marines I can recall who were either described as getting a bit old, or actually spoke of it themselves.

that Blood Angel shroud bearer type is probably at least 1500 years old, based on him being a Sarge during Dantes veteran period, even with the Vamp cliche of the BAs, thats a hell of a lot, although it doesn't make mention if these are actual years. obviously the implication is "yes" given the context.

The Inquisition War books describe a method that could extend life almost indefinately, if not for the side effect of wiping most of your memories.

So is this another case of Abnett kind of doing his own thing (which from discussions here I've gotten the impression that he does from time to time)

Its not so much that as it is he just doesn't write a bit of fluff that could have come out of a Codex. i.e. he has an imagination, and its not the Kevin J anderson "I shit on you" type.

So many of his critics tend to lack one.

[fgalkin]

That said, we still haven't really had much reference to old age actually killing a marine.

Iacton Qurze and Furion of the Blood Angels are the only two marines I can recall who were either described as getting a bit old, or actually spoke of it themselves.

Well, Chapter Master Seydon of the Iron Snakes is quite clearly old, and he's around 1000.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Cykeisme]

I've read somewhere- possibly some part of the Games Workshop website itself- that they're not sure if a Space Marine will actually die of old age, because there are no solid records of a Marine dying from anything other than injuries (almost all of which are unsurprisingly combat-related).

That would also mean that Space Marines see quite a bit of fighting. That's no surprise at all of course, being only 1000 chapters in a galaxy as war-torn as WH40K, their services must really be in demand.


What about normal people? Do normal people without treatment live longer in 40k?
Or are all these multi-century lifespans due to them being important people getting life-extending medical treatment (and/or having experienced less "real" time due to warp travel)?

[Teleros]

I've read somewhere- possibly some part of the Games Workshop website itself- that they're not sure if a Space Marine will actually die of old age, because there are no solid records of a Marine dying from anything other than injuries (almost all of which are unsurprisingly combat-related).

The Horus Heresy books mention this a few times. I'm not sure if it's gone downhill since then though...

[Lost Soal]

It was believed at the time of the Heresy that Astartes couldn't die of old age, but this was due to lack of knowledge. Its been specifically stated that a side effect of the Blood Angels mutation is their longevity and that they are among the longest lived of marine chapters. Hardly makes sense if their immortal.
Also in Deathwing, its either strongly suggested or implicitly stated, can't remember which, that the Dark Angels who stayed behind to rebuild the tribes were nearing the end of their lives.

[Cykeisme]

So are there any indications (direct or inferred) to what the upper lifespan limit for an average Space Marine is?
Or, as it tends to work in WH40k (one of the great things about it), does the lifespan limit vary according to the sheer badassery of the individual Astartes?

Of course, this part may bring us back to the fact that probably >99% of Astartes die from battle, so only the badass ones survive to be millenia old.

[Adrian Laguna]

Since Marines don't retire, it is very likely that when they start getting old the wearing-down of their physical bodies outstrips their sheer level of experience and their chances of dying in combat go up.

[NecronLord]

We've heard references to those too wounded to continue in combat but too well to have a Dreadnought getting fleet positions and such, IIRC.

[Adrian Laguna]

We've heard references to those too wounded to continue in combat but too well to have a Dreadnought getting fleet positions and such, IIRC.

Ah right that's true, there are Marines who serve as officers in the warships attached to the Chapter. As an aside has always seemed that those Marines don't count toward the 1000 men per chapter number.

[Ford Prefect]

Personally I think it makes sense that the more devoted "cult" chaos marines might have survived 10k years doing their thing, while Undivided blokes like the WB and the Alphas, who also spend a lot of time out and about in the greater galaxy might not benefit so much.

I recall from the Index Astartes article for the Alphas something to the effect that because they don't spend all that much time in the Eye, they lack the 'longevity' of other Traitor Legions.