Dr Who - Season 4

Bedlam · Post by **Bedlam** » 2007-10-20 03:36pm

This isn't really a thread about what is actually going to be in next years Dr Who (im sure there are lots of spoilers out there, I haven't really look so far) its more about you would like to see, what type of story, what enemies (old, new) how many two parters, three parters, any particular writers?

Personally I would like to see the return of few old enemies. I'd like the seasons major enemies to be the Rutans and Sontarians. The first allow for hidden enemy stories as there shape shifters and the second low good solid militariestic enemies and invasion stories. There could be a one parter near the beginning of the series about a sontarian invasion of a future each colony, a two parter in the middle of the series about a historical or near past invasion by the Rutans using infiltration and finally at the end of the series another two parter the first part having another Rutan infiltration which is revealed near the end of the first part, they are defeated but reveal that there purpose was to stop an invasion by the Sontarian and now there fleet would have to be destroy the planet. The second part then consists of a massive battle between Sontarian and Rutan fleets with the doctor despirately trying to stop the earth being caught in the cross fire.

I would also like a Silurian story, there rather one trick ponies but it would be interesting to have a remake of the original story perhaps with the Silurians played a tad more simpitetically and a more ecological angle i.e. we inherited the world from them and now were messing it up.

Also I think there would have to be a Dalek story, probably a two parter. Really there needs to be more Dalek's created in some way as were down to just on now, perhaps the newer Dalek's could be weaker than the time war version. I'd be interested in the last of the Cult of Skaro (Khan?) to end up travelling back in time be damage and be the Dalek in the first series episode Dalek (there would have to be some amnesia as well).

Anyone else got anything they would like to see?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-10-20 03:48pm

Entirely new enemies/monsters and finally, finally, getting away from Earth and doing some real traveling through the universe.

Just like during the Phillip Hinchcliffe era of the programme.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-10-20 03:54pm

I echo Mr. Degan. We really need to see less Cardiff-pretending-to-be-London episodes and more imaginative villains for the next season. We've had the Daleks, the Cybermen and The Master. Now we've used those three key baddies, it's time to invent something that didn't appear in the '60s and see how we can fare with more modern concepts instead.

I would also wish Catherine Tate to be replaced by someone else, but that's not going to happen and she wasn't that bad in "The Runaway Bride".

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-10-20 04:29pm

We've had a fair few episodes set away from Earth, but having two season finals set around London, England (aka Cardiff, Wales) in a row is starting to get old and we must set it somewhere else, with a lower number of Earth bound episodes (as very good as many of them are - "Blink" and "The Sound of Drums" come to mind). Anyway we have confirmed rumours of the Sontarans making a come back, but hopefully they are in a episode(s) set far away from contemporary Earth.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2007-10-20 04:34pm

NO DALEKS! Have the Doctor finally get over Rose (seriously, Doc, you've had better.) Get away from Earth more often and have some actual alien planets instead of everything being Earth colonies. No Daleks. More development for the Time Agents organisation that Captain Jack used to be a part of. A companion that's actually halfway competent. No Daleks. A season arc that consists of something other than simply a key word phrase repeated in every other episode but not explained until the finale.

Also, I don't think there should be Daleks in the new season. I just felt I should point that out.

Yuri2356 · Post by **Yuri2356** » 2007-10-20 04:43pm

I'd like to see more than one companion for a prolonged period of time - Give us a way to have more interaction amoung the main cast than rehashing the whole "Lonely Timelord and his attractive Earth-Lady-friend: Will they or won't they!?" thing. And, to further distance ourselves from that, make them from Not-Mordern-Britain. Jack was great fun to have around, That guy they picked up at the end of 'Dalek' could have been interesting if they'd not disposed of him after one episode, any one of the Game-station contestants could have been written into someone interesting... They keep passing by potential sources of new companions and passing them by.

And in other news, let's see more of the TARDIS! The interior of that thing is supposed to be masssive, so how 'bout a little sample - hmm?

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-10-20 05:00pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:NO DALEKS!

Yup.

Have the Doctor finally get over Rose (seriously, Doc, you've had better.)

His sulking eventually dissipated past the fifth episode, but losing a companion recently is nothing you can't get over in a hurry.

Get away from Earth more often and have some actual alien planets instead of everything being Earth colonies.

The Sanctuary Base in "Utopia" was essentially a alien colony, even though the bipedal homanids residing there were supposedly distant descendents of Earth humans. New Earth was essentially a alien world as well. But yeah, I like to see something like a intergalactic trading colony or the planet the Slitheen clan came from. But yeah, have a alien location that has no significant links with Earth.

No Daleks.

Heard you the first time mate.

More development for the Time Agents organisation that Captain Jack used to be a part of.

Yeah, that's a good direction for in-universe expansion (lets hope they don't fuck it up like they did with the Torchwood Institute past "Doomsday").

A companion that's actually halfway competent.

Don't be churlish, Martha may have been a wishy-washy character but she wasn't so periously detrimental as Torchwood's Gwen, serving a integral role in bailing out the Doctor from certain death on various occasions and I'm actually looking forward to Catherine Tate's character serving as a long term companion.

No Daleks.

I'm not deaf.

A season arc that consists of something other than simply a key word phrase repeated in every other episode but not explained until the finale.

This year's build up had more substance to it than just a sound-byte, with Master actively conduction things behind the scenes in the British government, the Lazlab project and his goons stalking Martha's family etc. I thought it was well done actually, even though the last episode fell a little flat. Agreed about pulling back on word dropping once every episode.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-10-20 05:05pm

Fuck, Ghetto Edit: "This year's build up had more substance to it than just a sound-byte, with the Master actively conducting things behind the scenes in the British government, the Lazlab project and his goons stalking Martha's family etc. I thought it was well done actually, even though the last episode fell a little flat. Agreed about pulling back on word dropping once every episode."

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-20 07:40pm

Shame it was complete bollocks then. The drums, the drums... oh wait they're actually irrelevant, I'll stop wasting screentime. OH NO I WON'T HAHAH!

No power in the universe can stop me... WASTE YOUR TIME WITH EXPOSITION!

All I want is a return to quality. I don't care what they do: they could get stuck in 1973 Manchester for all I fucking care. DW is on notice, I'm afraid, and if we get 50% complete bullshit, I won't even make it to the contrived preachey 4th season finale.

Whoops, new Doctor Who just became formula. Let's see them break it.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-10-20 08:00pm

Stark wrote:Whoops, new Doctor Who just became formula. Let's see them break it.

That generally involves getting a new producer in.

PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO MY FUND TO HAVE RTD ASSASSINATED K THX

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-20 08:03pm

As much as I've enjoyed a lot of his stuff, I think you might be right. I mean, every finale has been basically the same plot. However, the 'new to season 3' writers were absolutely awful, so I'm not sure where to go.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-10-20 08:20pm

Stark wrote:As much as I've enjoyed a lot of his stuff, I think you might be right. I mean, every finale has been basically the same plot. However, the 'new to season 3' writers were absolutely awful, so I'm not sure where to go.

I used to think that RTD would be ok as a producer, he just sucks as a writer, so the solution would be to have the BBC hire someone to hit him with a baseball bat every time he tries to write something. But the fact is that he sucks as an editor and doesn't seem to be able to consistently hire decent writers either. I fear that even if he didn't write a line, he'd force writers to stick to his broken notions of drama at least for the main character development and for the 'big' stories (mid season / finale two parters).

So no, sorry, good work in getting the series back on in the first place, but ideally he would have left about half way through the first season. His replacement is long overdue.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-20 08:32pm

Yeah, and it was really the editing that was the nail in the coffin for the last finale: it was all over the place, focus everywhere, screentime wasted, important things glossed over, etc. PotW and Doomsday were equally contrived, but much more successful dramatically.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-10-20 08:43pm

RTD is hit-and-miss as a writer, and he really did drop the ball in planning the end-phase of the Saxon/Master arc. The one thing that struck me is how a fourth episode was really needed to flesh out that story somewhat: all we get, really, was more the cliff-notes version of what could have been a more detailed plot. Things moved entirely too quickly and certain plot-points were left grossly undeveloped. What did the Master do to turn Lucy into a broken doll of a woman? Why no real look at the devestation of Earth or the hardships Martha faced during her sojourn across the continents? And how many of the Doctor's friends and former companions were killed resisting the Toclafane and the Master's goons during the Year That Never Was? Why don't we get to know anything more about the demons driving the Master's insanity, which quite evidently ramped up to 100 on a scale of 1-10? We don't get any of that.

That speaks to some sloppy planning regarding season 3. It's almost as if the end of the year was fast coming up on RTD and he hadn't realised it until almost too late. Bit of a waste, really.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-20 08:48pm

Don't forget the retarded denouement where Martha's family invites him in for dinner, after his righteous bullshit damned them to a year of hardship and slavery filled with the trauma of billions of dead and an insane madman that only they remember.

Clearly, a great guy to have round for dinner. He didn't do it all so he could become Jesus at all, it was a sensible plan.

Even the Virgin New Adventures would have handled the events far better, by showing the callousness and the massive risks taken to safeguard his moral highground, no matter the cost.

The drums, the Paradox Machine 'you can't just turn off' but then you just shoot it, the poor tie-in between the Futurekind and the Toclafane, the ridiculous publicly-known flying aircraft carrier, etc. Worst of all for me is that it completely scuppered the awesome setup they got from Utopia.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-10-21 09:46am

Stark wrote:Don't forget the retarded denouement where Martha's family invites him in for dinner, after his righteous bullshit damned them to a year of hardship and slavery filled with the trauma of billions of dead and an insane madman that only they remember.

Clearly, a great guy to have round for dinner. He didn't do it all so he could become Jesus at all, it was a sensible plan.

He suffered awfully beside them as a prematurely aged pensioner who was routinely tormented by the Mater for twelve months straight and it was not his fault that the Master broke him in such a horrible way.

The drums,

It would suck if that gimmick was not followed up on, but it could be an excellent set up to something big (like a monster in the Void manipulating the Master or the Time Lords implanting it as a command signal into his brain).

the Paradox Machine 'you can't just turn off' but then you just shoot it,

It perhaps did what it did and was lying dormant when Jack was plugging the thing with small arms fire.

the poor tie-in between the Futurekind and the Toclafane,

It was implied well.

the ridiculous publicly-known flying aircraft carrier, etc.

This is a fantasy serial, Stark, and UNIT having a flying command base is no worse than UNIT in the 1960s having planet killer nuclear warheads.

Patrick Deagan is the most bang on target on gauging what was wrong with the Master three parter in pointing out it needed to be a four, Stark made good points about RTD doing too much after "Utopia" in just two episodes and recycling too many elements from the last two more successful season finals. However Starglider is very wide off the mark, ignoring RTD's more positive aspects as the producer and writer who has helped make Doctor Who very successful again, also blatantly ignoring the irrefutable fact that Davies can hire decent writers when he hired Moffat and Cornell (who‘s contributions helped to salvage Season Three from being just average). I’m not totally sure about the new writers introduced in the third season, but Gareth Roberts and Stephen Greenhorn were pretty good (while Chibnall did surprisingly well in penning “42” after running Torchwood into the ground and Raynor was trying to sew a silk purse out of a pig‘s ear).

And Russell T. Davies is going to get his marching orders after the fourth season anyway and I really don’t think he is especially detrimental as a show runner who is trying to please both casual viewers and sci-fi fans (hence the seeming light weight tone for many of his episodes which is often mistaken for “bad” writing).

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-10-21 10:22am

Indeed, and the currently betting is that Stephen Moffat will be getting the Head Writership, His episodes, on the whole, being the best out of all of the series so far. So, one more series to go, and RTD goes adiós amigos...

Let's just the series manages to survive the current financial woes of the Beeb, eh?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-10-21 12:19pm

Dartzap wrote:Indeed, and the currently betting is that Stephen Moffat will be getting the Head Writership, His episodes, on the whole, being the best out of all of the series so far. So, one more series to go, and RTD goes adiós amigos...

Let's just the series manages to survive the current financial woes of the Beeb, eh?

Fuckin' A! If Moffat gets the head position, we could get decent story arcs even with the traditional budget the Beeb have DH in the past. Since DW is such a cash cow and the Beeb finally realises this, they'll likely not desecrate it with such penny pinching again.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-10-21 12:45pm

Personally, I'd prefer Paul Cornell in as head writer or script editor, but Moffat would be a good choice for the assignment. They could also bring in some more of the DWNA writers in: Marc Platt, Lance Parkin, and David A. McIntee.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-22 03:44am

Christ, you're insufferable.

Big Orange wrote:He suffered awfully beside them as a prematurely aged pensioner who was routinely tormented by the Mater for twelve months straight and it was not his fault that the Master broke him in such a horrible way.

So fucking what, moron? They suffered, they didn't have to, it's his fault, but he's jesus so they love him. That is shit. It's not his fault? IT'S 100% HIS FAULT! His moral high-horse lonliness bullshit is the only reason the Master got away with it, and there were NO CONSEQUENCES for his massive stupidity and irresponsiblity! Like I said, EVEN THE NOVELS dealt with this better.

Big Orange wrote:It would suck if that gimmick was not followed up on, but it could be an excellent set up to something big (like a monster in the Void manipulating the Master or the Time Lords implanting it as a command signal into his brain).

No, it sucks already because it got so much screen time and was irrelevant.

Big Orange wrote:It perhaps did what it did and was lying dormant when Jack was plugging the thing with small arms fire.

Are you really taking it up the ass this badly from stupid writing? Serious question. Surely it'd be working MORE after opening the rift, right? Oh no it's off now because Orange is a fannish idiot. Don't even get me started about 'how are we going to get past' where RTD clearly said 'fuck good question, let's cut around it and never mention it again'.

Big Orange wrote: It was implied well.

By your worthless standards, perhaps: they weren't even mentioned, instead we got a laughably ridiculous pile of shit about the end of the universe and pop psychology. Hmmmm, something from Utopia wasted? SHOCK!

Big Orange wrote: This is a fantasy serial, Stark, and UNIT having a flying command base is no worse than UNIT in the 1960s having planet killer nuclear warheads.

The point was inconsistency, tard. Nobody ever said 'oh yah and the UN has a giant flying aircraft carrier', and it'd been around for ages. It's ridiculous not because 'lol it's scifi' but because it's a super-scifi thing in what's supposed to be nearly-normal Earth. Super flying air carrier... but 747 for airforce one! Consistency?

Big Orange wrote:Patrick Deagan is the most bang on target on gauging what was wrong with the Master three parter in pointing out it needed to be a four, Stark made good points about RTD doing too much after "Utopia" in just two episodes and recycling too many elements from the last two more successful season finals. However Starglider is very wide off the mark, ignoring RTD's more positive aspects as the producer and writer who has helped make Doctor Who very successful again, also blatantly ignoring the irrefutable fact that Davies can hire decent writers when he hired Moffat and Cornell (who‘s contributions helped to salvage Season Three from being just average). I’m not totally sure about the new writers introduced in the third season, but Gareth Roberts and Stephen Greenhorn were pretty good (while Chibnall did surprisingly well in penning “42” after running Torchwood into the ground and Raynor was trying to sew a silk purse out of a pig‘s ear).

And Russell T. Davies is going to get his marching orders after the fourth season anyway and I really don’t think he is especially detrimental as a show runner who is trying to please both casual viewers and sci-fi fans (hence the seeming light weight tone for many of his episodes which is often mistaken for “bad” writing).

I'm not sure: the idea that RTD has become a bad influence seems acceptable to me. Like I said earlier, the show has become it's own 'formula', largely due to RTD, and it's becoming ridiculous. When it came back the show was refreshing, but unless 4th season improves dramatically it's already late-SG1 level cliched.

I think Valdemar underestimates the amount of penny-pinching TV stations can do though. Particularly considering the drop in quality in 3rd season: once a show starts going downhill, it doesn't need investment because only the fan morons who'd watch it if it was Blake's 7 quality are watching it anyway.

I thought Stephen Moffat had other writing jobs that would keep him from being RTD-level involved in the show?

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-10-22 06:51am

Big Orange wrote:However Starglider is also blatantly ignoring the irrefutable fact that Davies can hire decent writers when he hired Moffat and Cornell

Starglider wrote:But the fact is that he sucks as an editor and doesn't seem to be able to consistently hire decent writers either.

You fail reading comprehension again. RTD occasionally hires good writers by accident, just like he occasionally lucks out and manages to write a good story. But these are exceptions.

Give me a producer who produces something consistently interesting over someone locked into a single forumula, where we only get quality in the filler episodes that luck out and get a quality writer with minimal RTD oversight.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2007-10-24 01:40pm

Well supposedly they're going to the Ood homeworld next season, so that should hopefully be a nice and alien planet.

...and yeah, RTD is a bit too hit and miss with his stories sometimes. I'd gladly see him stay on as a regular writer, but I'd prefer the executive producer/head writer position be replaced with someone with less formulaic and spineless story writing practices (though part of this, I think, is that DW has become a victim of it's own success. Afraid to rock the boat too much).

DW is coming back with a few sporadic feature length episodes after season 4, that could potentially shake things up a little, especially if we see someone else come back for season 5 (which could happen if the new non-scifi show RTD is planning between 4 and 5 takes off).

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2007-10-25 10:11am

Personally I'd like to see a proper appreciation for the scale of change that can occur over time and the scope of history. I mean come on, they go forward to the end of stellar fusion and what do we find? Humans in khaki carrying m-16's, hiding behind a wire fence and driving jeeps. Fail. Same deal with the second two 'year 5 billion' episodes, everyone is still a regular human, quite possibly with the same LIFESPAN as humans from the twenty first century. Oh, except some people are cats, that's it, the same time again as it's taken for the Earths entire ecosystem to develope from pools of random sugars and amino acids and the only difference is that people drive flying cars and some people are cats.
Even if they're going to keep it mainly on Earth, and that seems pretty likely, human history comprises of more than just twentieth century Cardiff and London (which is actually Cardiff). For God's sake we have TEN THOUSAND years of history behind us, thousands of cities scattered across five continents (six if you count Oceania/Australasia, but they were pretty late into the game), show a bit of imagination!

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-10-25 11:35am

speaker-to-trolls wrote: Even if they're going to keep it mainly on Earth, and that seems pretty likely, human history comprises of more than just twentieth century Cardiff and London (which is actually Cardiff). For God's sake we have TEN THOUSAND years of history behind us, thousands of cities scattered across five continents (six if you count Oceania/Australasia, but they were pretty late into the game), show a bit of imagination!

It would be nice if they showed more than just Earth & New Earth. The Impossible Planet & The Satan Pit was an awesome drift away from that and frankly we need more episodes like them.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2007-10-25 12:44pm

Even the Impossible Planet was just an Earth outpost, and there really wasn't much on it.