A space marine in the Holy Land.

Post by **weemadando** » 2007-11-04 04:34am

Assume that a Veteran Sargent Space Marine (lets say a Dark Angel for the hell of it) finds themselves ensconced with Baldwin's army in the 12th Century Holy Land.

He is wearing MkVII armour and is armed with a bolt pistol and powersword. He also has a vortex grenade, melta grenade, 2 krak grenades and 4 frag grenades.

His armour is in top state and he has sufficient equipment to maintain his armour and equipment for at least 3 years of combat rotation. However, he only has enough rounds for his boltpistol to last 2-3 battles.

He is accepted by all members of the Crusader force and falls willingly into their chain of command.

What can this "man" do? Can this single super-human turn the tide himself? Could he in fact march on Damascus himself, or would contemporary warmachines and massed arrow, cavalry and foot assaults finally take their toll?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-04 04:43am

While some Space Marines are likely to march up the center and yell 'for the Emperor' while letting the enemy shoot at them, most of them are not. War machines of the era will have a hell of a time getting to shoot him if he's not a retard.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 05:11am

Exactly what sort of heavy artillery did they have in the 12th century Holy Land? I honestly can't imagine what good arrows or swords or cavalry charges are going to do against his armour, but my knowledge of just what siege engines they deployed in that era is non-existent. God knows what sort of demoralising effect he would have though, what with being able to cleave knights and their horses in two his his power blade, or completely fowl up a battalion of infantry with a frag greande.

And for God's sake, why did you give him a vortex grenade? What could possibly come across that would justify applying a big sucking rift in space and time in the goddamn 12th century?

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2007-11-04 05:31am

Hmm.. a pertinent question is how long the power suit of his can last.

Post by **weemadando** » 2007-11-04 05:41am

Ford Prefect wrote:Exactly what sort of heavy artillery did they have in the 12th century Holy Land? I honestly can't imagine what good arrows or swords or cavalry charges are going to do against his armour, but my knowledge of just what siege engines they deployed in that era is non-existent. God knows what sort of demoralising effect he would have though, what with being able to cleave knights and their horses in two his his power blade, or completely fowl up a battalion of infantry with a frag greande.

And for God's sake, why did you give him a vortex grenade? What could possibly come across that would justify applying a big sucking rift in space and time in the goddamn 12th century?

Mainly so he can do crazy shit.

Say, toss it into the ranks of the enemy and watch the insanity unfold.

Watch a vortex scream through the wall of an enemy fortress.

All sorts of stuff like that.

As for the siege weapons, they'd still have stuff like scorpions and ballista which may be able to do something. And I can't imagine that a shot from a catapult or onager would do him a great deal of good.

The suit power lasts for weeks at a time according to the old fluff. Not sure about the ret-con'd stuff, but I can't imagine it would be shorter. After all - a Marine is meant to be able to fight for weeks, even months at a stretch without sleep, rest or resupply if required.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 06:10am

weemadando wrote:As for the siege weapons, they'd still have stuff like scorpions and ballista which may be able to do something.

I'm annoyed that I can never remember the book, but there is an instance of a Space Marine getting hammered in the back with an ornithopter mounted autocannon while he protects a woman from being killed. I know that know calibre was given, but autocannon tends to imply a fully automatic weapons of cannon calibre; that is to say 20mm or greater.

And I can't imagine that a shot from a catapult or onager would do him a great deal of good.

Well, maybe if it was a really big rock ...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-11-04 06:14am

The autocannon is from Nightbringer, I believe.

loomer · Post by **loomer** » 2007-11-04 06:42am

Sweet jesus, WHY? He doesn't even need to bother with his bolt pistol, he can just hide in amongst a group of infantry until the last minute before they either reach the enemy or are charged, and then just cut everyone down.

Oh, the humanity...

Jaevric · Post by **Jaevric** » 2007-11-04 08:10am

loomer wrote:Sweet jesus, WHY? He doesn't even need to bother with his bolt pistol, he can just hide in amongst a group of infantry until the last minute before they either reach the enemy or are charged, and then just cut everyone down.

Oh, the humanity...

Now, now, that's not true at all.

There's no way a Space Marine in full armor is going to hide amongst a group of 12th century infantry. He's far too tall. He'd have to hide amongst the cavalry--which shouldn't be a problem since they can run as fast as horses anyway.

[R_H] · Post by **[R_H]** » 2007-11-04 08:32am

Holy shit, that would be awesome in an utterly wank manner...but still awesome. Please, someone write a fanfic based on this scenario,

Would he even need to use his projectile weapons? He could just beat the enemy to death with a club, or without any weapons at all.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-11-04 10:12am

He can wipe out the entire enemy army and possibly even populations of entire cities - well, fortresses at the very least, since they have limited populations. 3 years of combat?

Are you kidding me? The population of nations at the time were counted in millions, and that's at best. He also has allies.

That's just insane.

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2007-11-04 11:23am

And the best thing is that he's a genetically engineered super-soldier with multiple redundant organs that won't die of old age, or at least not before the year 5,000 BC or so. Even after his suit runs out of juice and his bolter out of ammo, up until the invention of decent cannonry and guns that won't do more than mildly irritate him--centuries down the line--he should be able to dominate entire theatres by his lonesome.

speaker-to-trolls · Post by **speaker-to-trolls** » 2007-11-04 12:23pm

This would be fairer on the people of the region if he was put in the modern day Holy Land, as it is then he's invincible as long as he's in his power armour and when that runs out he can still probably put whole armies to rout on his own. You could kill him with siege artillery and maybe massed arrow fire, but keep in mind that space marines are fast as well as strong and tough, as in 'outpace battle tanks' fast, so he's not an easy target.

The interesting thing would be working out what he'd do after the crusaders finish Raping and Pillaging for Jesus(tm). He's probably not used to command but would not be able to countenance letting the christian nations go back to petty bickering and infighting when they could be killing/converting heathens.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-11-04 01:22pm

Is the GEOM already existing by that point? If the Marine knows where he is, could it be possible he will attempt to reach him?

Dartzap · Post by **Dartzap** » 2007-11-04 01:34pm

Stas Bush wrote:Is the GEOM already existing by that point? If the Marine knows where he is, could it be possible he will attempt to reach him?

I think he may have actually have been born in the Mid East, although at what time I can't remember (BC, IIRC, although I'm known to be wrong about many things)

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-11-04 02:52pm

Allegedly 8000BC, probably somewhere in modern Turkey.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 03:18pm

Look, I'll be honest here: Ando has already put together a scenario which is remarkably cruel. I'm fairly sure he never intended for the God Emperor of Mankind to get involved as well. He might as well have said 'detonating gigaton level munitions in the Holy Land' if that was the case.

Post by **weemadando** » 2007-11-04 03:32pm

Ford Prefect wrote:Look, I'll be honest here: Ando has already put together a scenario which is remarkably cruel. I'm fairly sure he never intended for the God Emperor of Mankind to get involved as well. He might as well have said 'detonating gigaton level munitions in the Holy Land' if that was the case.

What if the GEoM had sided with the armies of Saladin? Actually, wait, forget I said anything.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 03:33pm

weemadando wrote:What if the GEoM had sided with the armies of Saladin? Actually, wait, forget I said anything.

Truth be told, the Emperor could have actually been Saladin, if he was so inclined. It was implied that he was Alexander the Great. Guy loved to dick around with people.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2007-11-04 04:28pm

Where does it imply that? I'd be interested to know. IIRC, the only info on his career pre-Dark Age of Technology is from Realms of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned, which only says he was born in Anatolia.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 04:36pm

I couldn't give you the exact book (I never can), but there is a throw-away line to the Emperor taking on public personas whom would eventually become such famous figures such as Alexander the Great, as part of his 'influencing humanity behind the scenes' plan.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2007-11-04 04:42pm

Oh, I'd read the stuff about him being an eminence gris, I just wondered if there were specifics. Was it a sourcebook, do you recall, or a novel?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-04 04:53pm

andrewgpaul wrote:Oh, I'd read the stuff about him being an eminence gris, I just wondered if there were specifics. Was it a sourcebook, do you recall, or a novel?

I'm almost certain it was a source book rather than a novel. I need a file filled with annotated lists of 40k sources I don't actually have.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-11-04 08:23pm

weemadando wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:Look, I'll be honest here: Ando has already put together a scenario which is remarkably cruel. I'm fairly sure he never intended for the God Emperor of Mankind to get involved as well. He might as well have said 'detonating gigaton level munitions in the Holy Land' if that was the case.
What if the GEoM had sided with the armies of Saladin? Actually, wait, forget I said anything.

What if the Emperor and the Lone Space Marine (years after losing his tech) find each other on an ancient battlefield, fight one-on-one, then after being beaten (having never happened before), the Space Marine asks about his opponent and slowly realises who he is. The Emperor then questions the Space Marine and thinks 'You know, it'd be great if I had a whole army of guys like this...'.

Post by **weemadando** » 2007-11-05 01:56am

Ford Prefect wrote:
andrewgpaul wrote:Oh, I'd read the stuff about him being an eminence gris, I just wondered if there were specifics. Was it a sourcebook, do you recall, or a novel?
I'm almost certain it was a source book rather than a novel. I need a file filled with annotated lists of 40k sources I don't actually have. :)

You speak of the mythical Fluff Bible which has been scourged from the interwebs by GW many, many times.