Dig out the Space Marines

[Stravo]

Been on a Space Marine reading binge lately with Horus Heresy books and the collected art work book so...

You have on one side a company of Imperial Fists (@100 Space Marines) in their OfB they have a dreadnought. The Fists are renown for their siege warfare craft in particular at defense as noted during the shining moment in the defense of Holy Terra vs. The Horus Heresy forces.

They are ordered by the Imperium to hold onto AR-588 no matter the cost.

They have 1 week to dig in and fortify. They are allowed only standard issue Space Marine weapons meaning they were yanked from their fortress monastaries with whatever the would normally carry no special weapons or rare stuff.

Then they are assaulted by the following factions.


I've read that normal attack doctrine calls for 5 to 1 odds for a successful assault let's hamper the Space Marines some more and give the assaulters 7 to 1 odds.


700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

700 Sentinels from the machine faction in the Matrix films and get a pair of agents as support (assume can perform any feat seen in the Matrix)

700 APU's from the human faction in the Matrix films and they get one of those hovercraft ships as air support.

700 Stormstroopers they have a pair of AT-ST's with them

700 Trade Fed Battle droids (assume 100 super battle droids, 50 Droidekas and the rest regular battledriods) They get two tanks as seen in TPM as support


Some special rules for these last two factions. Marines are limited to melee weapons (i.e. chain swords, powerswords, powergloves, etc) and the dreadnought is out of commission.

700 Xenomorphs they get a pair of pissed off alien queens as support (Assume alien acid will eventually burn through power armor in enough quantities)

700 Trolls from RotK movie and get a pair of Oliphaunts as support



Now, you tell me, are the Space Marines dug out of their prepared positions and defeated or do they hold strong for the Emperor?

[Darth Tanner]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

The fed infantry might as well not be there but the air support should be able to annihilate the space marines who as far as I know do not possess any portable anti air systems that can be considered standard kit.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

Again the infantry are worthless but the artillery (I'm not sure on its exact capabilities)may be worthless as well as the Space marines can simply charge it with their superior speed or simply survive it in their prepared positions.

700 Sentinels from the machine faction in the Matrix films and get a pair of agents as support (assume can perform any feat seen in the Matrix)

Machine gun fire can destroy a squid, a bolter is likely to destroy it and all those standing next to it. The agents are unlikely to be successful at using kung fo to take on someone wearing full power armour.

700 APU's from the human faction in the Matrix films and they get one of those hovercraft ships as air support.

I doubt the machine guns are going to be very effective against power armour and their total lack of pilot protection means their going down fast. Is the air support even armed? I assume power armour is hardened enough to survive EMP.

700 Stormstroopers they have a pair of AT-ST's with them

It's unclear how effective blasters are going to be against power armour but bolters are likely to kill stormtrooper in large numbers. The addition of effective anti infantry vehicles however means this is quite likely to result in a loss for the Space marines, although the Empire will likely take huge casualties depending on how many blaster bolts it takes to penetrate power armour.

700 Trade Fed Battle droids (assume 100 super battle droids, 50 Droidekas and the rest regular battledriods) They get two tanks as seen in TPM as support

Depends on their combat tactics, if they use the crap they used at Naboo then the droids are out already but if they use some form of intelligent tactics they have advantages over the Empire in every department. Also their tanks are effectively artillery as well so victory could be achieved without even having to send the battle droids in.

700 Xenomorphs they get a pair of pissed off alien queens as support

This is interesting in that the alien blood will likely render their weapons worthless after a couple of kills, leaving the space marines defenceless against a larger force. However I doubt that alien claws are going to penetrate power armour so its pretty much a stalemate, if a space marine uses his bare hands (well in power armour) to kill an alien he's going to get blood all over him.

However if their power weapons can survive their blood (their magical/warp powered in some way arent they?) then the aliens all die.

700 Trolls from RotK movie and get a pair of Oliphaunts as support

I presume power armour is quite well padded and shock protected to survive impact that their not going to worry too much about being hit by troll clubs. The elephant however will take some killing, likely with power swords chopping its feet clean off. I don't expect the Space marines will take any casualties in this situation unless someone gets trampled by the elephant.

[Imperial Overlord]

Space Marines win all scenarios. Heavy and special weapons are organic to Space Marine squads and are standard issue. If you mean Marines with standard kit (I'm assuming you do), they'll have the support weapons. If you mean only bolters, then it becomes trickier.

Marine heavy weapons and the Dreadnought will take down fliers. Klingon artillery from that battle is useless against Marines.

Blasters are about as powerful as las weapons (to generalize). Stormies die. Battledroids die. Tanks get taken out by heavy and special weapons or the dreadnought.

Power weapons are encased in a power field and will survive acid blood. Plus Marines can simply beat them to death.

[Peptuck]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Utter massacre when it comes to the Fed troops, and assuming the Dread has an assault cannon, it can probably blast the Delta Flyers out of the air if they get too close.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

The Imperial Fists sit back and drink Kool-aid while the Dread's assault cannon cuts down all the Klingons without any trouble. Assault cannon > narrow pass. They occasionally wonder what the foolish xenos are thinking as the little mortars go off all around them, and eventuallys end a team of scouts to dispose of that anoyance.

700 Sentinels from the machine faction in the Matrix films and get a pair of agents as support (assume can perform any feat seen in the Matrix)

Considering ordinary mounted machineguns can deal with Sentinels easily enough, bolters would rip the Sentinels apart. The Agents would be a bigger threat, except that we know they can't dodge a high volume of fire, in which case the Dreadnought and his assault cannon win again.

700 APU's from the human faction in the Matrix films and they get one of those hovercraft ships as air support.

Space Marine bolters can rip through fullya rmored Tau battlesuits, as shown in Kill Team. Slower, unarmored mecha with exposed pilots would be massacred. Assuming the IF have their usual array of weapons, they'll likely be packing missile launchers, so they can take on the hovercraft, so long as it doesn't pull an EMP burst suicide. Worst comes to worst, a pack of assault Marines can jetpack up there and board the hovercraft.

700 Stormstroopers they have a pair of AT-ST's with them

Now, a real challenge. This will be a pretty even matchup, but I think the Marines may be able to take it; as they are seige specialists, any artillery the Stormtroopers use will porbbly not do much damage, so they'll have to attack via the pass, which will be a killing field if they advance with stormtroopers. The AT-STs might prove a bigger challenge. This is one could go either way.

700 Trade Fed Battle droids (assume 100 super battle droids, 50 Droidekas and the rest regular battledriods) They get two tanks as seen in TPM as support

Tanks are useless in that terrain. Again, as with the Stormtroopers, the IF are up against an enemy with similar-level firepower but not durability. Assuming the Supers and Droidekas lead the charge and soak up the damage, the Trade Fed army might be able to inflict heavy losses or even defeat the IF, but that Dreadnought is going to take some serious killing before it goes down.

700 Xenomorphs they get a pair of pissed off alien queens as support (Assume alien acid will eventually burn through power armor in enough quantities)

Without bolters or other weapons, this is pretty much a Space Marines vs Tyranids w/ acid blood matchup. The Xenos are that strong compared with Genestealers, and they don't have the weight of numbers that gaunts typically have. It could go either way with that acid blood.

700 Trolls from RotK movie and get a pair of Oliphaunts as support

Oliphaunts and trolls would have difficulty in this terrain. The IF could easily pull a 300 at the narrow pass and kill the trolls one by one, and then hack the Oliphaunts' legs off.

[NecronLord]

Take a look at the TPM ICS. Those MTTs have some serious firepower. They're equipped with specialist bunker buster shells as standard, too, as well as high energy and AP rounds. If they just stay at range, they could seriously mess up any fortifications in that narrow little gap.

[Beowulf]

Fed troops go down like mown grass. Even with air support, it shouldn't be too hard for the Space Marines to use the bolters to shoot them down.

Similarly for the Klingons.

The only armament shown on a hovercraft in the Matrix is the EMP device. APUs are going to be useless.

If by "any feat shown in the Matrix" includes being able to possess people, the agents might be able to take it by possessing the Space Marines. Otherwise, they go down hard and fast.

[Stravo]

The human hovercraft had guns, lots of guns. Remember the running battle with the Hammer when Morpheus and Jada's character were trying to fly to the Dock. They were running and gunning the whole way with a series of what looked like gatling guns and other rapid fire autocannons in turrets along the tops and sides of the hover craft. They are not unarmed, they just suffered from Waschowski military ineptness writing.

[Kuja]

Given a WEEK to dig in, the Fists would still be able to crush the inbred-Tyrannid threat of the xenomorphs and the trolls as well just by rigging boulder traps, pits, and such. That would heavily cut down the enemy numbers and the Fists would deal with the rest. These are the Fists, the ultimate defensive seige experts in the galaxy. Giving these guys a week to dig in is tatamount to putting them three-quarters of the way to victory before the bad guys even show up.

[NecronLord]

These are the Fists, the ultimate defensive seige experts in the galaxy.

I think the Iron Warriors would disagree with your assessment.

Giving these guys a week to dig in is tatamount to putting them three-quarters of the way to victory before the bad guys even show up.

The other guys. Some of them are a lot more moral than the Fists.

[[R_H]]

Fed troops go down like mown grass. Even with air support, it shouldn't be too hard for the Space Marines to use the bolters to shoot them down.

Similarly for the Klingons.

The only armament shown on a hovercraft in the Matrix is the EMP device. APUs are going to be useless.

If by "any feat shown in the Matrix" includes being able to possess people, the agents might be able to take it by possessing the Space Marines. Otherwise, they go down hard and fast.

I thought the possesion was only possible if the possessee was capable of jacking into the Matrix?

[Kuja]

The other guys. Some of them are a lot more moral than the Fists.

Feh.

[white_rabbit]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Widebeam phasers set on vape take out entire squads at a time, from beyond the range of the grenade launcher style bolters.

The delta flyers take out the dread and take the rest of the marines prisoner by beaming them out because they don't have transporter jammers.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

See above, although the hand to hand combat gets a bit rough for the klingons, they've got superhuman strength and multiple redundant organs, as well as better guns.

700 Sentinels from the machine faction in the Matrix films and get a pair of agents as support (assume can perform any feat seen in the Matrix)

Pwnerised

700 APU's from the human faction in the Matrix films and they get one of those hovercraft ships as air support.

The Hovercraft might be pretty useful, but its really not got horribly powerful guns, and has lots of glowing vulnerable engines, to get shot with missiles and heavy weapons.

700 Stormstroopers they have a pair of AT-ST's with them

Versus dug in space marines? orbital bombardment required!

700 Trade Fed Battle droids (assume 100 super battle droids, 50 Droidekas and the rest regular battledriods) They get two tanks as seen in TPM as support

Christ....

Some special rules for these last two factions. Marines are limited to melee weapons (i.e. chain swords, powerswords, powergloves, etc) and the dreadnought is out of commission.

Thats a little less sadistic

[Ford Prefect]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Widebeam phasers set on vape take out entire squads at a time, from beyond the range of the grenade launcher style bolters.

The delta flyers take out the dread and take the rest of the marines prisoner by beaming them out because they don't have transporter jammers.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

See above, although the hand to hand combat gets a bit rough for the klingons, they've got superhuman strength and multiple redundant organs, as well as better guns.

I see what you did there.

[fusion]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Widebeam phasers set on vape take out entire squads at a time, from beyond the range of the grenade launcher style bolters.

The delta flyers take out the dread and take the rest of the marines prisoner by beaming them out because they don't have transporter jammers.

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

See above, although the hand to hand combat gets a bit rough for the klingons, they've got superhuman strength and multiple redundant organs, as well as better guns.

I see what you did there.

This is heresy and you must be purged from this world!!!!!!

In reality all of them die besides the Storm Troopers and the droids.
The Storm Troop are probably going to die too bu the droids have a chance due to the shields on the Droidekas. They might be strong enough to last through clips of bolter rounds. If not, they die too. So pretty much they all die at the hands of the marines.

After all a dreadnought may mount twin linked las cannons...
Many, Many gigawatts of fire power (10-100s GW/s)

[Academia Nut]

Uhhh... GW is a unit of power, which already has a "per second" as part of its definition. GW/s is a meaningless value unless of course there were some sort of ramp up time to reach peak power output, but even then that wouldn't be a particularly important value.

But yeah, this is a really unfair fight. Hell, the pass would probably be so heavily mined that only the SW troops (because they're competent about that sort of thing) and the Sentinels (because they can fly) are likely to even make it to the waiting kill zones.

[Sidewinder]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Widebeam phasers set on vape take out entire squads at a time, from beyond the range of the grenade launcher style bolters.

I've NEVER seen wide-beam phasers vaporize ANYTHING. (Stun, yes, but vaporize?) Besides, will those things do anything to ceramite, other than scorch the paint?

The delta flyers take out the dread and take the rest of the marines prisoner by beaming them out because they don't have transporter jammers.

Can transporters transport something as dense as adamantium, which, IIRC, is what the Dreadnought's armor is made of?

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

See above, although the hand to hand combat gets a bit rough for the klingons, they've got superhuman strength and multiple redundant organs, as well as better guns.

Space Marines also have superhuman strength, multiple redundant organs, and... Are you on crack? Do you actually think a disruptor is superior to a bolter, e.g., in effective range, wound ballistics, and reliability?

[loomer]

He was joking around. Just take a look at his sig pic for proof.

[Marko Dash]

how about 700 "Tagon's Toughs" grunts with support from 4 minitanks and the command crew?

[Lancer]

The Toughs win with contemptuous ease, and that's before you consider that there aren't 700 grunts with Targon's Toughs.

[Peptuck]

how about 700 "Tagon's Toughs" grunts with support from 4 minitanks and the command crew?

Does this include Schlock?

If so, I pity the poor, poor Fists.

[Gullible Jones]

There aren't 700 Toughs, AFAIK. But what the hell.

Let's see... Low-profile armor, right? Stops (most) bullets, but bolts are explosive (aren't they?), so I'm going to say the Toughs will take a lot of casualties in spite of the grunts' ability to fly with their magic gravitic stuff. Likewise, I don't see their coilguns getting past the Marines' armor.

However, those tanks will need probably need heavy weapons to take out, I doubt hand weapons will be able to get past their shields (unless the Marines pack something similar to breacher rounds). Seems to me that it basically comes down to four minitanks vs. the dreadnought (which I've only got a vague idea of the capabilities of). If the tanks take out the dreadnaught, the Toughs win, though half their grunts are probably going to get killed through superior enemy firepower and their own stupidity. If the dreadnought can kill the tanks, the Marines win.

There's also Schlock. If he's lucky he might be able to kill or at least cripple the dreadnought with his plasma gun (assuming its armor doesn't contain condensed matter or something, which seems unlikely). However, he is unarmored, and even if the Marines have trouble killing him with what they've got, getting blown to pieces will effectively put him out of action for the duration of the battle.

[Gullible Jones]

Keep in mind that I barely knew anything about WH40K until this week, so I might be overestimating or underestimating the Marines' abilities.

[Aratech]

700 Federation troops armed with some air support in the form of a pair of Delta Flyers.

Widebeam phasers set on vape take out entire squads at a time, from beyond the range of the grenade launcher style bolters.

I've NEVER seen wide-beam phasers vaporize ANYTHING. (Stun, yes, but vaporize?) Besides, will those things do anything to ceramite, other than scorch the paint?

The delta flyers take out the dread and take the rest of the marines prisoner by beaming them out because they don't have transporter jammers.

Can transporters transport something as dense as adamantium, which, IIRC, is what the Dreadnought's armor is made of?

700 Klingons armed with the devastating artillery they used in the episode "Nor the battle to the strong"

See above, although the hand to hand combat gets a bit rough for the klingons, they've got superhuman strength and multiple redundant organs, as well as better guns.

Space Marines also have superhuman strength, multiple redundant organs, and... Are you on crack? Do you actually think a disruptor is superior to a bolter, e.g., in effective range, wound ballistics, and reliability?

I think WR was being sarcastic, man. He just forgot the [/Rabid Trekkie] at the end of the statement.

[Vehrec]

I presume power armour is quite well padded and shock protected to survive impact that their not going to worry too much about being hit by troll clubs. The elephant however will take some killing, likely with power swords chopping its feet clean off. I don't expect the Space marines will take any casualties in this situation unless someone gets trampled by the elephant.

The Ichigo Kurosaki method of dealing with foes who are ten times your size, huh? Slice a bit off and repeat until you can reach the head?

Tradefed tanks are nasty enough that they might kill the Dread, the only things on the list that stand a chance at that. Saddly, Lascannon, Plasma or Missile fire will kill them before they can take out the Space Marines.

[Lord Revan]

the standard Battle company would have, 6 tactical, 2 assault and 2 devastator squads that's 2 heavy weapon specialists squads there and lets not forget that marines from tactical squads can also carry heavy weapons.

SW powers (especially the sep force) might pull this off and I don't know enough about the matrix to say yes or no, but for ST there's no hope