Space above and beyond

hawkwind · Post by **hawkwind** » 2007-11-11 10:58pm

I m jus watching this awesome old show.
Well, its about war against unknown alien enemy. Then in every war you dehumanise enemy first giving him names like "gerry" etc., but here the enemy is not human at beginning. Though as show progresses the aliens actually humanise because how they act and react.
That is I m in half of the show and I m having this strange perception.
There is more than alien element - both vitros in the show (Coup and the McQueen are there. McQueen is human because he built his ties humanity through corps and he thinks of his squadron as of his children and family.
Coup on the other hand is at beginning of the show every bit alien to human nature as real aliens. He does not even react like normal person, he is every bit confused and to a point psychotic.
But he improves how it goes actually thanks to others. Also thanks to mcQueen.

So it is the message? What makes us human, and inhuman?

Besides of that the show rocks, it has high level of disbelief suspension and good CGI, but I m not surprised it was eventually cancelled, because generall audience does want happy feet penguins after all.

For discussion.

Jaro

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-11-12 01:16am

Er.. what's for discussion? It helps if you ask a question.

And S:AAB's second half sucked assballs. When they changed the intro and made it 'Star Trek Morality Play But With Jetplanes', it blew goats until the finale, which didn't even make a huge amount of sense.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-12 04:24am

I liked how the show's writers adressed the problem of sending Marine pilots on groundpounder missions.

...by having McQuinn chew out the cast.

McQuinn wrote: "This is not the air force, and you will obey your orders. Every Marine a rifleman!"

It was still retarded, though. Personnel shortages my ass - if anything, it should make them more hesistant to use pilots in this way, since it's so fucking hard and expensive to train competent pilots in the first place.

Also, Chiggy Von Richtchofen

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-11-12 04:34am

S:AAB was fun, especially the pilot movie. It's not very realistic, no matter what the fanboys say, but at least it tried to present a believable universe with a fairly well-made background.

Coup on the other hand is at beginning of the show every bit alien to human nature as real aliens.

Coop was just a selfish asshole. He was living on the streets for all we know, had a record of petty crime and he was part of a group that wasn't exactly much appreciated to begin with. I don't think psychosis is a trait of Tanks, he just had a shitty life.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2007-11-12 06:17am

PeZook wrote:Also, Chiggy Von Richtchofen

It's not a thread about S:AAB without mentioning him. Abandon all hope, indeed.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-12 06:26am

Ford Prefect wrote: It's not a thread about S:AAB without mentioning him. Abandon all hope, indeed.

He was the only named Chig character in the entire show, after all...and, you know, that little decor in English made him a more pronounced character than nameless Chig footsoldiers, even though all we know about him was...that he had a special fighter. Hell, the thing could've been an autonomous drone for what we know. Funny. Mind-fucking.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-12 06:29am

Bounty wrote: Coop was just a selfish asshole. He was living on the streets for all we know, had a record of petty crime and he was part of a group that wasn't exactly much appreciated to begin with. I don't think psychosis is a trait of Tanks, he just had a shitty life.

Tanks are prone to have shitty lives, though. McQuinn summed it up best in one of the episodes, where he mentioned how he had to catch up super-quick on 18 years of emotional development that humans just take for granted.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-12 05:03pm

Hmm, I recall there was some reason why they never got an alien specimen to examine and dissect, despite the fact that they regularly faced and defeated enemy infantry..

It's been a while now and I can't remember, what was the rationale for that?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-11-12 05:13pm

Cykeisme wrote:Hmm, I recall there was some reason why they never got an alien specimen to examine and dissect, despite the fact that they regularly faced and defeated enemy infantry..

It's been a while now and I can't remember, what was the rationale for that?

Chigs dissolve when exposed to oxygen.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-11-12 05:24pm

Ford Prefect wrote:It's not a thread about S:AAB without mentioning him. Abandon all hope, indeed.

That entire episode was *stupid*. I liked S:AAB, but everyone loving the fistful of wank (who suddenly becomes retarded when cripple-clone decides to Take Him On lulz) was retarded.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-11-12 05:28pm

I always though the batshit insane Brit tank commander was a lot more interesting. Though it's been ages since I've seen the episode so maybe it sucked too.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-11-12 05:41pm

Bounty wrote:I always though the batshit insane Brit tank commander was a lot more interesting. Though it's been ages since I've seen the episode so maybe it sucked too.

Actually it was an American NCO that commanded what was really a fancy weapons carrier. The Brit was a supply officer that had been stranded on the planet who managed to learn the Chigs language.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-11-12 05:48pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Bounty wrote:I always though the batshit insane Brit tank commander was a lot more interesting. Though it's been ages since I've seen the episode so maybe it sucked too.
Actually it was an American NCO that commanded what was really a fancy weapons carrier. The Brit was a supply officer that had been stranded on the planet who managed to learn the Chigs language.

That's what ten years does to memories. Was the episode any good? All I really remember is a flamboyant Brit who runs a vehicle he insists is a tank and that's always out of fuel and some AI's that try to bribe a character.

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2007-11-12 06:48pm

The memories are returning. I remember David Duchovny as the AI Handsome Alvin, uncredited.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2007-11-12 08:30pm

Chigs disintegrate on contact with oxygen? Yeowch.

Still, considering the number of engagements throughout the war, they didn't capture a single Chig, or at least an intact dead Chig?
Weren't there any ground encounters in non-oxygen rich atmospheres?

Old Plympto wrote:The memories are returning. I remember David Duchovny as the AI Handsome Alvin, uncredited.

Was he a bad guy?

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2007-11-12 08:41pm

Cykeisme wrote:Chigs disintegrate on contact with oxygen? Yeowch.

Still, considering the number of engagements throughout the war, they didn't capture a single Chig, or at least an intact dead Chig?
Weren't there any ground encounters in non-oxygen rich atmospheres?

I remember that the finale's part one took place on such a planet. Wouldn't say more in case of spoilers for hawkwind.

Cykeisme wrote:
Old Plympto wrote:The memories are returning. I remember David Duchovny as the AI Handsome Alvin, uncredited.
Was he a bad guy?

Yes he was, IIRC. Another AI bad guy was the guy who played Eugene Tooms in the X-Files.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-11-12 11:28pm

Bounty wrote:
That's what ten years does to memories. Was the episode any good? All I really remember is a flamboyant Brit who runs a vehicle he insists is a tank and that's always out of fuel and some AI's that try to bribe a character.

It was passable, the tank that was obviously not one was hard to ignore. But the stranded British officer was pretty good.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2007-11-13 01:31am

Wasn't it stated to not be a tank? The driver even insists that Pearly is not a tank, but an APC. Unless I'm remembering it wrong.

I think you have it opposite.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2007-11-13 01:33am

Gah. I just looked it up. I had it wrong.

Hawkes: Looks like you and your APC are out of simpatico.
Fox: Tank!
McQueen: No need to get ugly, sergeant.
Fox: Pearly is not an armored personnel carrier, she's a tank. You call her an APC one more time, I'll use your guts to grease her treads.

Damn 10 year old shows.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-11-13 02:44am

Major: So, are you going to untie me so that I won't have to endure further humilitation of being spoon-fed?

Coop: ...

Major: Then piss off!

I loved this scene

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2007-11-15 01:12pm

If I remember correctly, Jane Badler AKA Diana from V, was also an AI briefly in an early episode.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2007-11-15 02:54pm

The producers of SAAB also produced X-files and Millennium. Most of the actors got gigs on the other shows. Morgan Weisser played Lee Harvey Oswald in the X-Files, Tucker Smallwood played a sheriff in one of the more disturbing epsisodes of the X-Files, and Rodney Rowland had a guest spot on
X-files. Kristen Cloke moved to Millennium. James Morrison had a spot on Millennium, and of course is now on 24.

Baal · Post by **Baal** » 2007-11-16 01:28pm

I watched some of the show but not all of it.

Can someone explain to me the AI pool shark played by DD. IF the AI's revolted and left Earth space then how was he there to lose a pool game to the female marine pilot?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-11-16 01:30pm

They didn't leave human space, they left Earth. Some of them allied with the Chigs while others it seemed just bummed around.

Winter · Post by **Winter** » 2007-11-16 03:19pm

Stark wrote:That entire episode was *stupid*. I liked S:AAB, but everyone loving the fistful of wank (who suddenly becomes retarded when cripple-clone decides to Take Him On lulz) was retarded.

It's a stupid premise, certainly, but it made for some fucking brilliant drama and beautifully-written dialogue. I also liked how they introduced the sacrificial lamb character several episodes before killing her off.

"My maker? My maker was some geek with a lab coat and a petri dish. What have I got to make peace with him for?"

"My maker was some geek in a lab coat with an eyedropper and a petri dish. What do I need to make peace with him for? "
"In times of war we must all make peace with our maker."
"With all due respect, chaplain, I don't think our maker wants to hear from me right now. Because he know I'm going to go out in this plane and I'm going to remove one of His creations from His universe. And when I get back, I'm going to drink a bottle of scotch as if it were Chiggie Von Richtofen's blood and celebrate his death."

Remember, popular entertainment doesn't work like the real world. It exists in a universe where the power and success chance of any character increases linearly with the base drama value of the event, modified by the number of heroic sacrifices/deaths. That's why the special missile they built to kill Chiggie failed to do a jot of good.

Regards,
Winter