Physics reprt: FTL drives

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-30 02:51pm

For a piece of physics cioursework i have to research and analyse a topic. I chose FTL drives in science fiction. This report is a research one so i don't need to do much work my self, rather compare and contrast other peoples. I want to choose 5 or 6 FTL drives from sci-fi and compare them to see which is best. I need some help choosing which ones. Here's my current shortlist:

Derfinately in:
Hyperdrive (Star Wars)
Warp drive (Star Trek)

High chance of being in:
Warp travel (Warhammer 40,000)

Others:
Step Thorugh (His Majesties Starship)

This is the list that i know about currently. If someone can supply me with some more suggestions i'd be grateful.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-30 02:58pm

My suggestion: choose a different topic, unless you want to research the reasons why it WOULDN'T work.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-30 03:09pm

You can do a science report on fictional superluminal drives?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-01-30 03:17pm

Damm, you have a strange system. Try culture hyperspace...

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-30 03:19pm

The teachers Ok'd it. Basically i'll be under Suspension of Belief, and i'll be comparing their advantages and disadvantages assuming they existed. I have to research each one, comparing and contrasting info from different sources, input my own opinion of which sources are right and wrong (and why) and sum it up.

It's not like the practical paper that i did earlier where i have to do the experiment and write it up. I don't even have top do many calculations, that's what threw me off at first as i was going to investigate either The Matrix (on how much they "bend the rules" to do their massive jumps and stuff) or Star Wars (How much force would be required to do the stuff that Jedi use The Force to do , eg. TK and rapid acceleration) but the teacher said i shouldn't.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-01-30 03:25pm

One of the more common methods of getting around at FTL speeds in science fiction is the wormhole. You see variations on this method in Space Above and Beyond, Dune (the movie version), and Event Horizon.

The principal, of course, is based on making to pieces of space "overlap", and jumping from one to the other in the process.

Event Horizon used the following description:

Imagine space as a flat plane, like a piece of paper. You can draw to dots on the paper several inches apart. They stay several inches apart as long as you keep the paper flat, but if you fold the paper, you can actually make the dots touch. If a ship could fold space to make to bring two locations together like that and then take the "shortcut" of jumping across, then you go faster than light.

From what little I understand, the known laws of physics don't actually forbid the existence of wormholes. Nonetheless, I don't think anyone has ever actually found one, either, so the concept is pretty much discredited from a realistic standpoint.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-30 03:32pm

Wormholes are statistically possible via quantum mechanics. However, that doesn't count for much. By QM, it is also statistically possible that you will spontaneously teleport to Jupiter.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-30 03:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:Wormholes are statistically possible via quantum mechanics. However, that doesn't count for much. By QM, it is also statistically possible that you will spontaneously teleport to Jupiter.

Woo, yeah!

See ya, suckers!

*Sits in wait of random teleportation to Jupiter*

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-30 03:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:Wormholes are statistically possible via quantum mechanics. However, that doesn't count for much. By QM, it is also statistically possible that you will spontaneously teleport to Jupiter.

So that's what happened to my lunchbox...

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-01-30 03:45pm

Darth Wong wrote:Wormholes are statistically possible via quantum mechanics. However, that doesn't count for much. By QM, it is also statistically possible that you will spontaneously teleport to Jupiter.

That's probably one ofhte reasons Einstien didn't like Quantum Mechanics...

Quick suggestions:

Culture FTL drive, check in the threa don the Culture in the Other Sci-fi for an explanation of how it works, or a link to an explanation. Staying within the Culture, you can also throw Displacement into the mix as well, but you should also include the warning that there's a 1 in 64 million chance of bad shit happening.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-30 04:26pm

I suggest this site.

http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/av_index.html

The alternative veiw colomns have alot of ftl drives. The Casmir effect in partuclar is very interesting.
http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw43.html

Other intersting ftl systesms are the hyperdrives from the weber novels or the wormhole system of Nights Dawn by peter hamiliton. The drive from Skylark is also interesting... Basically the light speed barrier is disproven.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-30 04:32pm

For a hypothetically possible real FTL drive, look up "Alcubierre" and "warp drive" on google. If I could remember the other guy who's worked on that...I think it's Van Den Broecke, but my spelling my be off.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-30 05:10pm

See http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/ideachev.htm for various NASA ideas. To me, warp drives seems to be the most likely device, but it requires that a) negative energy exists and b) we can control it.

Another idea from string theory is that gravity is actually strings connecting objects in the universe, and that they exist in extra-dimensional space. If one could some how enter an extra dimensional, then you MIGHT be able to follow a string and then pop back into space. This would allow you to bypass the light speed barrier.

I think its going to be a long before we have anything close to an FTL drive. One thing is that we really need a much better understanding of the nature of the universe.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-30 05:42pm

I dare you to do one on the Infinate Improbabilty Drive.

There was another one which relied on using a number that can only be defined as anything other than itself.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-30 05:45pm

Exonerate wrote:I dare you to do one on the Infinate Improbabilty Drive.

WTF is that?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-01-30 05:56pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:Another idea from string theory is that gravity is actually strings connecting objects in the universe, and that they exist in extra-dimensional space. If one could some how enter an extra dimensional, then you MIGHT be able to follow a string and then pop back into space. This would allow you to bypass the light speed barrier.

Michael McCollum uses such a FTL drive in his Antares series, a Fold drive.

As for Wormholes: in his Xeelee sequence, the humans have found a way to "enlarge" the quantum wormholes using portals, so that they can be used to travel.

And then there's the Xeelee hyperdrive.

Another very funny and interesting FTL drive is the one from "Moving Mars". It manipulates the so-called Bell-continuum, in which all the information of every particle in the universe is stored. So you don't actually move, you just convinve the universe that you are somewhere different

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-01-30 07:41pm

Just remember that no matter what the performance estimates may yield up for the paper, your actual mileage may vary.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-30 07:45pm

Do a report on the starship Bistromath.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-01-30 08:14pm

That's true Darth, but then it's been proven that one can teleport photons and conjecture has been made that larger particles could under go the same process. This means though there is still little chance that you could be popping up on the bringer of Jolility, you could be sent there in tiny bits, with the appropriate tech.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-30 08:21pm

2000AD wrote:
Exonerate wrote:I dare you to do one on the Infinate Improbabilty Drive.

WTF is that?

From Adam Douglas' book Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I believe he was British, as you seem to be. Very good book, hightly recommended.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-30 08:22pm

SyntaxVorlon wrote:That's true Darth, but then it's been proven that one can teleport photons and conjecture has been made that larger particles could under go the same process. This means though there is still little chance that you could be popping up on the bringer of Jolility, you could be sent there in tiny bits, with the appropriate tech.

Doesn't the Uncertainty Principle say that won't work? If you can't simultaneously know the speed and location of a particle, wouldn't that mean there's a good chance you head would end up on Jupiter but your ass would be somewhere in the Large Magellannic Cloud?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-30 08:48pm

How can anyone be a sci-fi fan and not at least know of Hitchikers or dear old Doug?!

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-30 08:51pm

You don't need to read know that information. Basically your using quantum entanglement to transmit your quantum state(s) across vast distances 'blindly.' I believe this how they teleport photons. This concept is as one of the key ideas behind quantum computing. And that about covers my knowledge of the subject.

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-30 08:56pm

I suggest you check out the Diametric, Pitch, Bias, and Induction Ring drives on NASA's website. Better than using sci-fi wankfests for a science project.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-01-30 08:56pm

Well, my knowledge of quantum physics being as limited as it is, I won't argue that. I could swear I remember that idea getting smacked down in another thread somewhere, but I could be wrong.