Defend the Pillar of Autumn

[Gerald Tarrant]

After re-reading this Necroed Thread I started to wonder about defending the Pillar of Autumn.

Captain Zoidberg made this comment

I wonder if they used VX gas when the Covenant were taking over the Pillar of Autumn. It seemed like there were quite a few rooms which could be sealed in the front and back and then flooded with VX gas. I think it would've made sense for them to put some of that in the rooms connecting the cafeteria to the bridge, to delay capture.

I don't recall there ever being any mention of nerve gases in the Halo-verse, but the thought inspired me to think about how the UNSC deals with defending its ships and space stations. So here's a set of things that I thought could be done to improve the defense of PoA (and UNSC installations in general) from Covie boarders

• 1. Use the blast doors to slow the Covie advance
  1a. Use that time to set up strong points and fallback points behind the blast doors.
  2. Motion sensors or claymores on the engineering and 'tween deck spaces.
  3. Depressurize areas under enemy control
  4. Automated guns, or heavy weapons set up at choke points.
  5. Scatter weapons lockers in more areas of the ship.
  6. Pull the Marines slightly back from the likely entrance points so that they aren't killed by the entrance charge**

That was just a few ideas I had to in Universe UNSC stupidity.

**what I'm talking about in 6





Sorry for the poor resolution, just some screen caps from a youtube video of what I think is known as a speed run Here if anyone cares.

Thoughts? Additions?

[Xon]

One thing you need to keep in mind is this; Most Covenant handweapons weapons one-shot marines thought thier armor on a center-of-mass hit.

Also it is hit and miss on if VX would even work on some of the Covenant races. The Grunts for example are methane breathers, and need to use basic NBC gear simply to function in an oxygen enviroment.

[Gerald Tarrant]

One thing you need to keep in mind is this; Most Covenant handweapons weapons one-shot marines thought thier armor on a center-of-mass hit.

That's a good reason to set up strong points where less of the UNSC personnel are exposed I would think.

Also it is hit and miss on if VX would even work on some of the Covenant races. The Grunts for example are methane breathers, and need to use basic NBC gear simply to function in an oxygen enviroment.

I agree, and the history of humanity in space (United under the UNSC) may mean that there are few or no chemical stocks remaining. The VX comment just sparked the idea about how would you go about defending the Pillar of Autumn.

[JointStrikeFighter]

There are heaps of boxes marked "VX Gas" lying around various bases in Halo 2 and Halo 3.

[Resinence]

And OP should replay Halo 1, they indeed did close blast doors to seal the cov in certain areas, and there was marines behind cover at chokepoints (look just outside the cryo room where the blast door closes while the marines hold the point), and I'm fairly sure they also depressurized areas.

Though they should have used the gas, it's understandable that they didn't, none of the marines had NBC gear.

The pillar of autumn never had a chance to be honest, how many cov ships did they have chasing them? 3? 6? I can't remember, and the boarding via the escape pods was completely unexpected, they had never seen the cov do that before.

[Gerald Tarrant]

There are heaps of boxes marked "VX Gas" lying around various bases in Halo 2 and Halo 3.

Hadn't noticed that in 2. Got bored of 3. Thanks for the info.

And OP should replay Halo 1, they indeed did close blast doors to seal the cov in certain areas, and there was marines behind cover at chokepoints (look just outside the cryo room where the blast door closes while the marines hold the point), and I'm fairly sure they also depressurized areas.

Yes, there are a few Marines in cover, most of them aren't though. If you watch the youtube clip I linked you'll notice there's a dead marine by most of the lifepod entrances. And there are plenty of open hallways with dead MArines and open blast doors. Also I'd like you to see this.



This is just a random corner in the PoA. If you look at the bottom of the screen-cap you'll see that there is an open Blast Door. They seem to use them in a few places early on and are fine, but neglect it everywhere else and are over-run.

Though they should have used the gas, it's understandable that they didn't, none of the marines had NBC gear.

Great planning, that.

The pillar of autumn never had a chance to be honest, how many cov ships did they have chasing them? 3? 6? I can't remember, and the boarding via the escape pods was completely unexpected, they had never seen the cov do that before.

The point wassn't really that they could prevent the ship from being over-run, but they ccould certainly do a better job of it, buy more time, soak up more covie troops, whatever.

[Peptuck]

The biggest problem the Autumn had (elaborated on in Fall of Reach, The Flood, and First Strike) is that the Autumn had suffered a lot of damage in the battle over Reach and had lost the majority of its crew in the oribital battle. On top of that, they were hit practically the minute they dropped back out of slipspace and didn't have time to set up a proper defense; the majority of the surviving crew was still in cryo, according to First Strike. That's why the majority of the Marines are in such a haphazard condition on the surface; most of them barely had time to do more than grab a rifle before they were face-to-face with Covenant boarders.

The Flood also makes specific mention of a Navy Lieutenant who is depressurizing sections of the ship that the Covenant have overrun.

[loomer]

Two words.

Automated. Turrets.

[CaptainZoidberg]

I think another thing you have to consider is objective.

The UNSC goal wasn't really to have a last stand inside the POA. Their objective was to get as much people onto the Halo as possible - and to do that they had to get to lifecraft on the sides of the ship. Since the Covenant were attaching their boarding craft in the lifecraft docks, it wouldn't make sense for the UNSC to try to cut off those docks with VX gas. In a sense they'd be sealing their own tomb.

Rather, it would make sense for them to gather their remaining troops and try to punch through to get to the remaining lifecraft. And that's exactly what they did - with Masterchief as the tip of the spear.

Also, does VX gas do anything to exposed skin, or is it just absorbed through the air?

[Tasoth]

Honor Harrington forever changed how I view ship combat. The whole concept of donning EVA gear and fighting without an internal environment kinda makes sense. If you get hit, you don't have to worry about atmosphere venting. If you're boarded, they have to have EVA gear or their dead from cold, no pressure and lack of atmosphere. Of course, this only works if you're not ambushed.

[Darth Wong]

I think another thing you have to consider is objective.

The UNSC goal wasn't really to have a last stand inside the POA. Their objective was to get as much people onto the Halo as possible - and to do that they had to get to lifecraft on the sides of the ship. Since the Covenant were attaching their boarding craft in the lifecraft docks, it wouldn't make sense for the UNSC to try to cut off those docks with VX gas. In a sense they'd be sealing their own tomb.

Rather, it would make sense for them to gather their remaining troops and try to punch through to get to the remaining lifecraft. And that's exactly what they did - with Masterchief as the tip of the spear.

The problem is that the Covenant does not have an intelligible objective here. Why are they trying to capture the Pillar of Autumn instead of simply blowing it up? It's best not to look too closely at the plot of the Halo games.

At least the Pillar of Autumn boarding was not as stupid as the bomb they planted on the station at the beginning of Halo 2. That's a new low: so stupid that you have to wonder if they were having some kind of contest to see what the audience would tolerate.

[Megabot]

The only reason the POA boarding took place in the first place was because the Covenant didn't want to risk damaging Halo with their plasma torpedoes, but why the prophet in charge of the fleet ordered for the ship to be captured rather than destroyed I have no idea. You'd think if they could get boarding craft in that close without being destroyed why didn't they simply attack with fighters armed with anit-capital ship weaponry instead.

[Megabot]

At least the Pillar of Autumn boarding was not as stupid as the bomb they planted on the station at the beginning of Halo 2. That's a new low: so stupid that you have to wonder if they were having some kind of contest to see what the audience would tolerate.

What really stood out for me about Cairo Station was that the bridge was completely unarmored and exposed, encased only in a reinforced glass dome facing outward, not to mention how a good part of the station was open to windows as well (Just like the Pillar of Autumn, to think of it). A single fighter or well-placed torpedo could have done what that bomb and all of those boarding craft couldn't.

[Maxentius]

The only reason the POA boarding took place in the first place was because the Covenant didn't want to risk damaging Halo with their plasma torpedoes, but why the prophet in charge of the fleet ordered for the ship to be captured rather than destroyed I have no idea. You'd think if they could get boarding craft in that close without being destroyed why didn't they simply attack with fighters armed with anit-capital ship weaponry instead.

They could have been worried about the results of such an attack. If their attack caused the ship to explode instead of just reducing it to a wreck, the blast could potentially damage the ring. Especially if one counts the size of the explosion when the reactor detonated at the end of the game.

[CaptainZoidberg]

The problem is that the Covenant does not have an intelligible objective here. Why are they trying to capture the Pillar of Autumn instead of simply blowing it up? It's best not to look too closely at the plot of the Halo games.

As for why the Covenant captured the POA instead of blowing it up:

1. The Covenant were afraid that they would miss the Pillar of Autumn and accidentally destroy the Halo, so they avoided using their strongest weapons.

2. The best firepower on a UNSC ship is the MAC gun running down the barrel. If you accept the figures given in the book for slug mass and velocity, then the MACs have yields in GT-TT range. The next best UNSC weapons are all MT range nukes.

So it was a Covenant tactic to let the capital ships sit back at a distance and swarm the UNSC capital ships from a distance with fighters, boarding craft, and missiles (you see some hitting the POA here
http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/5/57/Pillar.jpg)

3. The POA had Cortana, and the Covenant weren't able to create strong AI - so maybe capturing her justified the loss of a couple men.

I guess I like to look closely at the plot of Halo because there's still a lot of fresh stuff to look at, unlike Star Trek or Star Wars which have already been picked clean.

At least the Pillar of Autumn boarding was not as stupid as the bomb they planted on the station at the beginning of Halo 2. That's a new low: so stupid that you have to wonder if they were having some kind of contest to see what the audience would tolerate.

I'm having trouble finding a justification for that.

[SylasGaunt]

2. The best firepower on a UNSC ship is the MAC gun running down the barrel. If you accept the figures given in the book for slug mass and velocity, then the MACs have yields in GT-TT range. The next best UNSC weapons are all MT range nukes.

The only MACs that have that kind of firepower are the Super MACs.

[CaptainZoidberg]

What really stood out for me about Cairo Station was that the bridge was completely unarmored and exposed, encased only in a reinforced glass dome facing outward, not to mention how a good part of the station was open to windows as well (Just like the Pillar of Autumn, to think of it). A single fighter or well-placed torpedo could have done what that bomb and all of those boarding craft couldn't.

Why they used boarding parties with bombs instead of a missile to destroy the Cairo is beyond me. Of course, one could argue that there was some shield surrounding the Cairo making inside detonation impossible - but in that case one would wonder why the Covenant didn't just punch a hole in the wall and lob in missiles through that.

I could understand the Covenant wanting to capture the Cairo, simply because of its enormous firepower. If you use .80c for the slug velocity and 3000 tons for slug mass given in the book, you get 5.3 Terratons of energy per shot. Imagine firing a couple of those slugs back at the Earth...

[CaptainZoidberg]

2. The best firepower on a UNSC ship is the MAC gun running down the barrel. If you accept the figures given in the book for slug mass and velocity, then the MACs have yields in GT-TT range. The next best UNSC weapons are all MT range nukes.

The only MACs that have that kind of firepower are the Super MACs.

I haven't read the books, but according to Halopedia the normal MACs fire a 600 ton slug at "point one tenth c" (I'm not kidding, the author really put in point and tenth - so we have to infer if that means .1c or .01c). If we use .1c, then we get 60 gigatons as the firepower for the POA's MAC. If we use .01c, we get under 600 megatons.

[Peptuck]

At least the Pillar of Autumn boarding was not as stupid as the bomb they planted on the station at the beginning of Halo 2. That's a new low: so stupid that you have to wonder if they were having some kind of contest to see what the audience would tolerate.

The only possible justification I can offer here is the Covenant are complete morons. Ghosts of Onyx actually points out that the Covenant's lack of innovation goes right down to tactics, when the Spartans assault a Brute-controlled ship and take it over in the exact same way they took the flagship in First Strike. Fred remarks that a human commander would have changed protocols and installed alternate defensive measures, while the Covenant are too rigid to do otherwise. Its not hard to imagine that incompetence extends to their assault tactics too.

Which is really, really annoying. The only way to make the Covenant not completely wipe the floor with the humans is to make them religiously guided retards.

[TC Pilot]

The problem is that the Covenant does not have an intelligible objective here. Why are they trying to capture the Pillar of Autumn instead of simply blowing it up? It's best not to look too closely at the plot of the Halo games.

Cpt. Keyes woke Master Chief up to make sure Cortana wasn't captured and forced to reveal the location of Earth.

[CaptainZoidberg]

The problem is that the Covenant does not have an intelligible objective here. Why are they trying to capture the Pillar of Autumn instead of simply blowing it up? It's best not to look too closely at the plot of the Halo games.

Cpt. Keyes woke Master Chief up to make sure Cortana wasn't captured and forced to reveal the location of Earth.

But how could the Covenant not know where Earth is? Okay, consider this. The first planets the Covenant took were all sparsely populated, and then they grew progressively more developed and dense. They had just hit Reach - basically the 2nd most developed planet in the UNSC - by the start of Halo 1. How could they not anticipate there being very developed planets next to Reach? In fact, Reach is Epsilon Eridani, which is the closest star to our sun with a planet.

The Covenant not expecting Earth and the heart of the UNSC to be right next to Reach is like someone walking into the center of NY and expecting to see an unexplored jungle next to the Empire State building!

[TC Pilot]

But how could the Covenant not know where Earth is?

Because the galaxy is flipping huge? I don't know. The Prophet that attacked Earth in Halo 2 found it by blind luck, just like the PoA found Halo.

[CaptainZoidberg]

But how could the Covenant not know where Earth is?

Because the galaxy is flipping huge? I don't know. The Prophet that attacked Earth in Halo 2 found it by blind luck, just like the PoA found Halo.

I simply refuse to believe that he found it by blind luck, no matter what any of books say. That just doesn't make sense.

Reach is literally right next to Earth. If the Covenant just sent one ship to each star closest to Reach, they'd get to Earth pretty quickly.

[TC Pilot]

I simply refuse to believe that he found it by blind luck, no matter what any of books say. That just doesn't make sense.

What makes you think I've even touched a Halo book?

Reach is literally right next to Earth. If the Covenant just sent one ship to each star closest to Reach, they'd get to Earth pretty quickly.

So? You don't think that's what happened in Halo 2? The Prophet's fleet was "fifty times" smaller than the one that glassed Reach. It was essentially a scouting force.

[The Vortex Empire]

But how could the Covenant not know where Earth is?

Because the galaxy is flipping huge? I don't know. The Prophet that attacked Earth in Halo 2 found it by blind luck, just like the PoA found Halo.

I simply refuse to believe that he found it by blind luck, no matter what any of books say. That just doesn't make sense.

Reach is literally right next to Earth. If the Covenant just sent one ship to each star closest to Reach, they'd get to Earth pretty quickly.

They arrived at Earth because a Forerunner artifact had the coordinates to Earth in it. They were expecting to find Forerunner ruins, not the Human homeworld.