Dune 7 & 8 (This thread will contain spoilers)

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2008-07-13 07:16am

I just finished reading Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune.

*Spoiler time*

So Duncan is the real Kwizats Haderach, the "Enemy of many faces" was fucking Skynet reborn and Brian Herbert once again proved that if he ever had an original thought in his head It'd die of loneliness. I knew Anderson was a fucking moron already but I almost expected more of Herbert, or more accurately I expected the descents of Frank Herbert not to allow Brian (who obviously hates his dad, for confirmation read the Gary Stu relationship Kynes has with his dad in the House Trilogy) to allow Brian to willingly shit on a great story from a great height. Plot swerves I saw a mile off, characters going against very well defined characteristics and a frankly unintelligent plot.

I've been reading scifi novels since I was about 10. This is the first time I've felt insulted by the book I was reading. It was a marketing exercise from start to finish to give their abomination Butlerian Jihad trilogy some legitimacy. If I hadn't borrowed the books from a local Library I'd be tempted to set fire to them and bury the ashes so the book couldn't insult some other poor schmuck.

Your thoughts?

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2008-07-13 01:19pm

This is why I say stop with God-Emperor of Dune. If you -must- go allt he way to Chapterhouse, but honestly it's crap.

Gaidin · Post by **Gaidin** » 2008-07-13 01:28pm

LadyTevar wrote:This is why I say stop with God-Emperor of Dune. If you -must- go allt he way to Chapterhouse, but honestly it's crap.

I stop with Heretics of Dune nowadays. It's got enough closure that the only reason to read Chapterhouse is because you want to. Once someone like me reads Chapterhouse theres some compulsive need to finish the damn story and id end up picking up Dune 7 and 8.

The big question. Who really didn't see this coming after that stunt in the Butlerian Jihad trilogy where the machines colonized beyond known human space?

CaptainZoidberg · Post by **CaptainZoidberg** » 2008-07-13 08:44pm

I stopped with Children of Dune.

[quote = "Gaidin"]
The big question. Who really didn't see this coming after that stunt in the Butlerian Jihad trilogy where the machines colonized beyond known human space?
[/quote]

My first impression was that bring back Ominus would just be *too* obvious, and that Brian Herbert would try to do something that brought the robots in, but wouldn't make the plot do a complete 180 and conform to his own personal story. I was wrong.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2008-07-14 08:20am

Gaidin wrote:
The big question. Who really didn't see this coming after that stunt in the Butlerian Jihad trilogy where the machines colonized beyond known human space?

I kinda did see it coming, I just hoped that someone with some brains at the publishers or another Herbert spawn would nix it. They actually said they wrote these books from notes Herbert had written just before his death, I for one would like to see the part where Herbert made the Butlerian Jihad Terminator in Space. The Impression I'd got from earlier books was that the "Thinking Machines" weren't really the bad guys.

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-07-14 11:04am

so basically the God Emperor took the most round about way possible of defeating Omnius. he could ahve built a HUGE fleet and tracked him down but instead we spend thousands of years messing around with psychic ninja whores.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2008-07-14 12:08pm

Psychic Ninja Whores. Just when I think I've seen everything...

Anyhow, I assume that the thinking machines didn't have no-ships or anything that rendered them immune to prescience, right?

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2008-07-14 01:19pm

Chapterhouse and Heretics are actually my favorite books in the series. I thought that Herbert had improved as a writer by the time he wrote those. And Miles Teg is the man.

septesix · Post by **septesix** » 2008-07-16 12:27am

Themightytom wrote:so basically the God Emperor took the most round about way possible of defeating Omnius. he could ahve built a HUGE fleet and tracked him down but instead we spend thousands of years messing around with psychic ninja whores.

BLASPHEMY!!

There is no such thing as "Omnius" in Duneverse. Leto 2 undertook the golden path and repressed humanity so much such that once he had died, humanity would explode forth with all its pent up potential and will never allow itself to be repressed , whether by an empire or by a prophet' vision , ever again.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2008-07-16 04:39pm

Crom wrote:Chapterhouse and Heretics are actually my favorite books in the series. I thought that Herbert had improved as a writer by the time he wrote those. And Miles Teg is the man.

Agreed. In the later two books at least people seem to grow a brain stem and use ranged weapons, especially lasguns which I feel where massively underused in the previous 4 books.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2008-07-16 08:30pm

Lasguns weren't used because of shields, and the fact that the interaction between them and a shield was inevitably fatal to both parties. I believe something happened to negate the usefulness of shields (It's mentioned, IIRC, but I dont know the specifics), and so lasguns came back.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2008-07-16 10:30pm

Vendetta wrote:Lasguns weren't used because of shields, and the fact that the interaction between them and a shield was inevitably fatal to both parties. I believe something happened to negate the usefulness of shields (It's mentioned, IIRC, but I dont know the specifics), and so lasguns came back.

I got the impression that shields just fell out of common usage by the time of Heretics. They were always impractical for mass deployment.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2008-07-16 10:31pm

Lord Pounder wrote:Agreed. In the later two books at least people seem to grow a brain stem and use ranged weapons, especially lasguns which I feel where massively underused in the previous 4 books.

I thought the characters had improved too. I really liked Darwi Odrade and Duncan Idaho.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2008-09-05 10:31am

Shields were not used on Dune because of static electricity draining their power in the open desert, and because they tended to attract worms.

I'm currently reading Chapterhouse, and agree about the lasgun thing.

I do plan on reading "Dune 7" (Hunters and Sandworms) for a sense of "closure" even if they weren't penned by FH himself.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-09-05 10:37am

Okay, this may come as surprise but I will explain in detail why I locked your topic because obviously you're being a retard on purpose, or perhaps you're just a dumbfuck.

The first locking was that your premise and topic had been done before and necroing Pounder's is just fucking stupid. His isn't even the first. The books sucks and very few people found ANYTHING salvagable from them. You hadn't even read the fucking things, and wanted a review. This means all you have to do is read said reviews dumbfuck, not post +1 topic and post.

So keep going and we'll see where this all ends up.