Erasing the Daleks

[Patrick Degan]

Yes, we know the Time War is supposedly "time-locked", but what one act of plot contrives, another can undo.

So let's say you're commissioned to do a script for Doctor Who and you've been assigned the last licensed appearance of the infamous pepperpots-with-attitude. And you've decided that the Doctor has figured out how to undo the Time War and restore the Time Lords, and that he's decided to suck it up and take the step of changing history. He will break the laws of time and undo the war by erasing the Daleks from existence. They will have never been created.

Question is, at what point should the critical change be made? He can't have another go at the initial generation of mutants in the bunker: he'd already tried that gambit and failed. Yes he had his moral crisis and moment of indecision. But when things were clearly spinning out of control he went ahead and rerigged the bomb, which was triggered and did blow up the incubator room. Only it was already far too late since Davros' first group of full Daleks had already been generated, so I think that mission was doomed from the jump because the CIA sent the Doctor to the wrong point in time to begin with.

So what in plot should be the ideal point to ensure the Daleks never exist? In my script, the Doctor would pick the time just before the Neutron War. Make peace between the Thals and Kaleds, they never go to war, they don't hopelessly poison Skaro, and a thousand years down the line there is never a crisis which leads to the creation of the Daleks. They never exist and thus the Time War never happens. How to involve the Daleks? Suppose the Neutron War occurred in the first place as a result of a paradox —the Daleks from the future starting it off and ensuring their own creation? Which means the Daleks are a temporal abomination which should never have existed in the first place. Recycles "The Day Of The Daleks" somewhat but it would be a crowning moment in the series, the way to send the Daleks out with a bang and the jumping off point to a whole new continuity.

[Bounty]

I'm not sold on the "Daleks are their own creation" plotline. The creation of the Daleks as the corruption of war taken to the extreme is a powerful story which won't be served well by making it a paradox; the Daleks are arguably more terrifying because we, as humans, can end up *like them* if we're faced with a similarly devastating war.

I do like the idea of nipping the war in the bud, but why not simply stop Davros? He was the one who pushed the Kaleds on their path to emotionlessness, so why not a story about the Doctor trying to stop Davros from ever going into science, or exiling him away from the war, or perhaps even planting a seed of hope for his race; steer him on a path where he uses his intellect to repair the radiation damage rather than accelerate it. Maybe it can even be tied into the story of how he ended up in his wheelchair?

This way the Time War can end on a more hopeful coda; the Kaleds, thousands of years in the future, with a fully-restored civilization, taking their place in the universe with their sordid past having never happened. Too sappy?

[General Zod]

I do like the idea of nipping the war in the bud, but why not simply stop Davros? He was the one who pushed the Kaleds on their path to emotionlessness, so why not a story about the Doctor trying to stop Davros from ever going into science, or exiling him away from the war, or perhaps even planting a seed of hope for his race; steer him on a path where he uses his intellect to repair the radiation damage rather than accelerate it. Maybe it can even be tied into the story of how he ended up in his wheelchair?

Davros wasn't the one who started the war between the Kaleds and Thals was he? If not then it makes sense to have the two races make peace before it develops to the point of Davros creating the Daleks. Otherwise just removing Davros means there's the possibility that someone else can take Davros' place.

[Zixinus]

Go a step further then that. Simply kill Davros before he gets into his accident. Or just capture.

To go beyond that, make an artificial anti-dalek race. Or mere hunter-seekers that camouflage into their environment flawlessly as something harmless only to snap when identifying a Dalek.

[Starglider]

I would have the Doctor meet Davros early on, initially try to kill him, but eventually end up working together against some greater evil. It wouldn't be enough to stop Davros creating the Daleks. But it would be enough to make them turn out like Imperial Overlord's Menor Daleks. Because those were awesome.

[Bounty]

I do like the idea of nipping the war in the bud, but why not simply stop Davros? He was the one who pushed the Kaleds on their path to emotionlessness, so why not a story about the Doctor trying to stop Davros from ever going into science, or exiling him away from the war, or perhaps even planting a seed of hope for his race; steer him on a path where he uses his intellect to repair the radiation damage rather than accelerate it. Maybe it can even be tied into the story of how he ended up in his wheelchair?

Davros wasn't the one who started the war between the Kaleds and Thals was he? If not then it makes sense to have the two races make peace before it develops to the point of Davros creating the Daleks. Otherwise just removing Davros means there's the possibility that someone else can take Davros' place.

Whoops, it does read like I think Davros started the war, doesn't it? I knew he didn't, but that sentence must've got stuck during an edit.

Just stopping the war also leaves the possibility of it flaring up again, that's always a risk with fixing time. However, "stopping a war" has been done before; I think you can get an equally, if not more, interesting story out of trying to change Davros' philosophy. If you can turn him, the mastermind behind the very core of what a Dalek is, then the chances of anything Dalek become close to zero (after all, Davros was the only one with both the skill and the mindset to create them in the first place).

Maybe I'm just in love with the idea of Davros and the Kaleds redeeming themselves with a bit of the Doctor's help, rather than having another story of "Doctor lands, flips switch, puppies and unicorns".

[Starglider]

But it would be enough to make them turn out like Imperial Overlord's Menor Daleks. Because those were awesome.

Correction; that idea is actually from some obscure Dr Who audios (that I haven't listened to). But it is still cool and good for a few episodes.

[NecronLord]

If I had to write the daleks out, and (supposedly permanantly) I'd simply re-do Evil of the Daleks (easily the best end of the daleks; the Emperor of the daleks screaming as rebel daleks close in around him and then shoot him, and proclaim a bright new future for the dalek race) without the 'human factor' or time travel elements, and have them become not-villainous. Frankly, they've flirted with the idea a few times lately. It'd be nice to see them go all the way. The Daleks then kick the shit out causality, erase their prior selves from history, in so doing, restoring the Time Lords, and become functioning equals of the Time Lords.

It also lets you have small numbers of daleks fall off the wagon in the future without having them be a universal threat.

[Imperial Overlord]

I would have the Doctor meet Davros early on, initially try to kill him, but eventually end up working together against some greater evil. It wouldn't be enough to stop Davros creating the Daleks. But it would be enough to make them turn out like Imperial Overlord's Menor Daleks. Because those were awesome.

The Mentor Daleks aren't mine. They're from the Dalek Empire serials. I just write fanfiction about their backstory. Thanks for the praise though.

*Hugs his pepperpots* You won't take them! You can't!

Ahem. The Neutronic War had been going on long before Davros was born and they had fallen from a tech level where both sides used energy weapons to using bolt action rifles.

Interestingly enough in "Genesis of the Daleks" the Doctor abandons his plans to kill the Daleks when the rebel Kaled scientists seize control of the bunker, intending to continue the creation of the Daleks but with conscience and a full spectrum of emotions restored to them.

As for destroying the Daleks, I favor having the Doctor stopping the Neutronic War from occurring in the first place and I would have it mostly as a result of Thal aggression. Have some sort of Dalek counter-intervention that helps fuel Thal aggression and paranoia and have the Doctor desperate to prevent them from a course of action that results in the eventual destruction of their race and horror being unleashed upon the universe.

[Johonebesus]

This might be an idea that could make for a good # Doctors story, if Baker could be convinced to reprise the role. You could have the Doctor go back to Skaro and try to convince his past self to go through with his assignment. Failing that he could salvage the Thals' doomsday missile, maybe with his past self trying to stop him.

This is also an interesting aspect that hasn't been explored with all the angsting: not only was the Doctor personally responsible for pressing the button at the end of the Time War, but he was also, through his dithering, partly responsible for the Daleks' existence to begin with. If, for just once in his life, he had simply followed orders, the Time War would never have happened.

[Patrick Degan]

I'm not sold on the "Daleks are their own creation" plotline. The creation of the Daleks as the corruption of war taken to the extreme is a powerful story which won't be served well by making it a paradox; the Daleks are arguably more terrifying because we, as humans, can end up *like them* if we're faced with a similarly devastating war.

The angle you speak of is not negated by the idea of the Daleks having been the ones who saw to it the Neutron War started. They may have done that, but it was still the Kaleds a thousand years down the line taking the decision to corrupt themselves beyond recognition.

I do like the idea of nipping the war in the bud, but why not simply stop Davros? He was the one who pushed the Kaleds on their path to emotionlessness, so why not a story about the Doctor trying to stop Davros from ever going into science, or exiling him away from the war, or perhaps even planting a seed of hope for his race; steer him on a path where he uses his intellect to repair the radiation damage rather than accelerate it. Maybe it can even be tied into the story of how he ended up in his wheelchair?

Stop the war from ever happening and you haven't got a Chief Scientist Davros a thousand years later. Besides which, Davros was a product of the war and the Nazi-like Kaled ideology, which had hardened into received wisdom after a millenium of genocidal combat. You're not going to find a good man inside that hardened shell waiting for his moment of satori.

This way the Time War can end on a more hopeful coda; the Kaleds, thousands of years in the future, with a fully-restored civilization, taking their place in the universe with their sordid past having never happened. Too sappy?

Same thing is the potential outcome from stopping the war from ever happening.

Just stopping the war also leaves the possibility of it flaring up again, that's always a risk with fixing time.

Yes and no. Consider a play on the same angle which operated with "The Day Of The Daleks" —the Thal and Kaled nations represent the two major power blocs on pre-war Skaro. Both are sliding toward the abyss and both are still searching for some way to stop the slide before it's too late, drawing a direct analogy to the Cold War. The critical juncture is a vital round of peace negotiations which, if successful, will avert Armageddon. The two sides are actually on the brink of solving their own problem. But as in the case of DOTD, it is outside interference which wrecks the peace effort and leads to war with consequences far more horrific than the Thals or Kaleds can conceive.

I think you can get an equally, if not more, interesting story out of trying to change Davros' philosophy. If you can turn him, the mastermind behind the very core of what a Dalek is, then the chances of anything Dalek become close to zero (after all, Davros was the only one with both the skill and the mindset to create them in the first place).

Unfortunately, Davros is a product of the war. It's sort of like saying you could somehow turn Adolf Eichmann or Reinhard Heyderich. They wouldn't do it because they were absolutely convinced they were right. So was Davros.

Maybe I'm just in love with the idea of Davros and the Kaleds redeeming themselves with a bit of the Doctor's help, rather than having another story of "Doctor lands, flips switch, puppies and unicorns".

Which is more or less the same idea with the plot I'd work out if I had the commission, sans Davros.

not only was the Doctor personally responsible for pressing the button at the end of the Time War, but he was also, through his dithering, partly responsible for the Daleks' existence to begin with. If, for just once in his life, he had simply followed orders, the Time War would never have happened.

But he did do —after the rebel Kaled scientists were killed, the Doctor did rerig the bomb and blow up the incubator room, but it was too late. It was already too late because the first generation batch of Daleks had already been created and housed in their travel shells. The Doctor speculated that he diverted Dalek development by maybe a thousand years or so but it seems obvious that the Time Lords fucked up in the first place by picking the wrong moment to attempt to change history.

[Revy]

I can't really offer much in the way of a suggestion, being only familiar with the new series of Who. I haven't taken the time to read up on the history of the Daleks so I couldn't make an idea that involved undoing them by affecting a specific event in time. But, if the question is sort of open ended, and any old way of writing them out is permitted, I do have one idea - but no one would like it.

Basically, it boils down into a Deus Ex Machina, but rather than simply pulling one out of thin air, I'd have a whole storyline revolve around the thing in question. I'd have a kind of Indiana/Tomb Raider -ish hunt through time and space by several factions, including Torchwood (or at least a future incarnation of Torchwood that is actually competant), the Shadow Proclamation, the Daleks, and maybe a few others (the Master maybe?) with everyone trying to solve clues left behind by a mad scientist, with the goal being litterally a God in a Machine - a machine that uses the Skasis Paradigm and offers unlimited power to whoever has it, granting the owner the means to change anything about the universe they want. Eventually the Doctor would get his hands on it and use it to go back to the Time War, which we'd eventually get to see (though not for long) and use the machine to stop the war, wipe all the Daleks from existence and save his own people.

I know, it sounds rubbish, but give it a decent writer and director and maybe it could work. Or not. At the very least it was mentioned in the episode where the Skasis Paradigm was introduced that if solved, it could allow the Doctor to save his people, and would easily let him rid the universe of the Daleks once and for all by simply erasing them from all of time and space. It'd be a good change of pace for the new series as well to bring Gallifrey and the Time Lords back in.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The intro to C&C:RA springs to mind, but with Davros, not Hitler.