T:SCC 2x13: "Earthlings Welcome Here"

[Thanas]

The last episode before the christmas break will air today. After that, there comes the long wait for February.

Sarah tracks down a blogger with a connection to the three-dots symbol and attends a UFO convention. Riley gets closer to John which causes a clash with Cameron.

Please use spoiler tags when discussing the promo pictures/trailers for February.

[Strider]

Poor Riley never even saw autumn. How can you all hate her so much?

[Schuyler Colfax]

Argh, what an annoying episode. Beyond Sarah being crazy and eventually killing something for the first time not much really happened. Cameron stood around and didn't make sense, and Sarah saw what I'm guessing is a fricking Hunter-Killer at the end.

On the other hand, they really worked out Riley a bit in this episode. I did have a lot of sympathy for her, considering how they highlighted just how much a change the past was from the future and how much she looked up to Jessie, only to have that respect brutally crushed. You actually feel for the scrappy.

In the end, it needed a bit more clarity and explanation, and a heck of a lot more Skynet/John Henry. Maybe a 3, unless someone can convince me it deserves a four.
Spoiler

Dude, is that freaking Kyle Reese in the spring trailer?

[Anguirus]

This ep gets brownie points merely for having a largely positive portrayal of a transsexual woman...how sad is that?

I'm almost hesitant to rate this episode. Either there is a HUGE payoff coming in February...or it sort of sucked. I was particularly UNimpressed with Sarah's cavalier attitude towards "Abraham's" security leading to the deaths of two innocent people. That was more of a moral lapse than her killing in self-defense. Ellison also pissed me off...he's trying to teach a machine to value human life, and all he can come up with is "we're special because of God"? I half-expected the thing to start picking apart his logic. Ellison used to be on the fence in terms of his religion...when did he become Preacher to Robots?

But on the other hand, the episode added a lot to the Riley character, that's for sure.

[Paradox]

Sure... NOW they kill Riley when her character gets interesting.

I think Ellison is going to teach John Henry about morality and right and wrong, and its going to discover that humanity is mostly in the wrong, and decide that's a good reason to have it wiped out. So much for becoming self aware and just randomly wanting to destroy humankind.

Sarah was completely stupid in this episode, she should have called in for backup, its not like the building is going to disappear overnight.

I like the prototype hunter-killer, I'm betting because Sarah is hurt, its only like 5 feet across.
Spoiler

If that is Kyle Reese in the next few episodes, it better be in the freaking future, because if htey pull some "well he wasn't really dead after T1" I'm going to be kinda pissed unless they have a good place and story for him. The actor they have for him actually looks vaguely like the original, so I guess thats ok.

[FireNexus]

Who says she's dead? Not all suicide attempts are successful.

[Burak Gazan]

Riley still looked to be moving somewhat, I think she hasnt bled out yet. Not done with her I suspect

All we saw of Jessie this time out made me want her painfully dead even more

And where the fraking hell is Derek? The minute Sarah started gearing up for a SOLO entry into that facillity, I just knew it was going pear shaped

One nice touch from crazy Sarah , was while in the diner the brief glimpse of T2 Sarah, complete with the K-Bar and "No Fate" carved into the tabletop. Kudos for the detail there

[Peptuck]

Only caught this episode while at work, so detailed response will come later. That said - HOLY SHIT HUNTER KILLER

[charlemagne]

Only a 3, because it was way too X-Filey. That h/k-whatever better lead to something better than "hey lol flying saucers are skynet playing with it's toys".

I also really didn't care for the Riley-flashbacks. They didn't show anything new, just more "Riley is really emo" crap. Oh man she never saw autumn - well I really don't care. No motives where explored, no agendas explained, just filler crap.

Too bad that Cameron didn't bust Riley already. When she was looking at the tattoo, I thought she'd scan for an erased prisoner-barcode or something, now THAT would've been cool.

Shepherd Ellison really annoyed me, too. The writers of this show didn't seem stupid enough to seriously pull a "religious man has to be good at ethics" thing off. I hope that John Henry will just keep asking "why" to "man is sacred because god created him". Or John Henry should do his own research and counter Ellison's preachings with philosophy.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Only a 3, because it was way too X-Filey. That h/k-whatever better lead to something better than "hey lol flying saucers are skynet playing with it's toys".

I also really didn't care for the Riley-flashbacks. They didn't show anything new, just more "Riley is really emo" crap. Oh man she never saw autumn - well I really don't care. No motives where explored, no agendas explained, just filler crap.

Too bad that Cameron didn't bust Riley already. When she was looking at the tattoo, I thought she'd scan for an erased prisoner-barcode or something, now THAT would've been cool.

Shepherd Ellison really annoyed me, too. The writers of this show didn't seem stupid enough to seriously pull a "religious man has to be good at ethics" thing off. I hope that John Henry will just keep asking "why" to "man is sacred because god created him". Or John Henry should do his own research and counter Ellison's preachings with philosophy.

You know what would be intresting? If he somehow did succeed in convincing him to value human life. And then some point in the series later CromartieHenry is fighting for the good guy's side (maybe against Rogue Cameron 2.0?). Something about a Jesus-terminator makes me chuckle.

Also, where are you guys getting trailers for the new ep? I can never seem to find them on the fox site.

[Shroom Man 777]

I can't really comment too much on this. Riley tried to kill herself... why? Because she's all sad? Or because she cannot allow herself to be complicit in Jessie's scheme because she doesn't want to see John dead? She must have a conflict of interest and she must not want to do what Jesse wants to her because Jesse wants do do something very bad. Really bad!

Um, I hope we get something good this February. With Sarah taking on this secret project to produce HKs, we might actually see the guys hit paydirt by unraveling some kind of conspiracy on part of the military industrial complex involving Terminators - basically they'll finally get a whiff of what Weaver is doing. She's tooling around with AI, nuclear power plant automation, and maybe she's involved in this too!

That's a weird looking HK.

As for the previews, I hope he's just part of Sarah's crazy dreams. I hope they're not gonna fuck it up that way. Come on!

They better do good in the continuation. This really depends on what happens next episode.

[PREDATOR490]

Kinda shitty episode...

It seems a bit bleak for them to shift Alpine fields forward to leave us with this for a cliffhanger unless the payoff is going to be bigger in the follow-up. That said, this episode simply sucks balls.

The pacing seemed rather lacking as well. One minute we are dealing with Sarah walking around UFO central, the next John is painting his room, then Riley is slitting her wrists. Oh wait, back to more Sarah trying to find out about the 3 dots.... eh ?
Stick to a fucking thread please rather than jumping between plot A and plot B. I realise it is an attempt at dramatic suspense but it is woefully annoying.

Cameron was a bit bitchy this episode. It seemed like more than 'protecting' Connor, especially the milkshake thing at the beginning. I was half expecting Cameron to turn around and accuse Riley of knowing she was a Terminator because of the distinct uneasiness around her. I also got the vibe that Cameron secretly enjoyed walking in on Riley's suicide attempt although maybe that is just me. As for Riley, I TOTALLY SAW the 'sympathy' angle coming with Jessie doing the pressuring but it didnt really pull any strings for me. The only thing it did was make me loathe Jessie.

I think it is a stretch to claim she did it because Jessie is going to kill John etc.
The goal seems to be keeping him away from Cameron which would indicate they want / need him alive. It could be that they have motives for him further down the road like killing Derek, Sarah etc. to further remove influence on him but I dont see Riley killing herself over that. Riley looks like a 'tunnel rat', not a REAL resistance fighter who is going to be able to kill people nevermind she would get fucked up royally even trying it.

The main focus of this episode is centred around Sarah apparantly and that leads to the wierd ending. That dosent look like an HK to me unless they have decided to change it or it is another varient ?

[Imperial Overlord]

The main focus of this episode is centred around Sarah apparantly and that leads to the wierd ending. That dosent look like an HK to me unless they have decided to change it or it is another varient ?

It works fine as a prototype as opposed to the refined and improved design Skynet's flying in 2029.

[charlemagne]

More thoughts after the episode sunk in:

For one, I came to the conclusion that I really, really hate it when characters start having "visions" all the time. This is different from Sarah's nightmares in T2, because they were just that, nightmares. Now she sees things and feels that she is "guided" by it or whatever. This is common in tv and movies, and I just don't get it. Nobody has visions for fucks sake, and those who do need to get psychiatric help.

Second, Sarah was shot before, and never before was she so "down" as this time. I'm no expert on gunshot wounds, but it didn't seem any worse than e.g. when she was shot in the shoulder in the pilot. She even seemed delirious in the end.

Regarding Jesse and Riley: I don't think Jesse wants to kill John, I think she thinks that Cameron is dangerous and John has to be kept away from her. Riley's motivation for slitting her wrists really is a mystery to me, though I don't think that she's dead already, because there really wasn't that much blood on the floor - plus, how long was she alone anyways? Maybe two minutes while Cameron told John that Riley is lying.

Cameron's look wasn't delight at Cameron's suicide, I think it was more confusion. She had a hard time understanding suicide the last time the topic came up already.

I still don't get how Weaver was able to fix up Cromartie that good. Ok, she propably could cook up the fleshy goo Cromartie used himself in season 1, and maybe she even could build an interface to plug puny present-day computers into a T888's hardware - but how did she fix the inside of his head up? They shot several rounds right into his head. Cromartie's "death" really didn't look as if there was anything left in this head to do any computing. Also, how did the AI learn to control the body?

[eyexist]

Either the writers are intentionally trying to make Sarah out to have shitty judgment, or they royally screwed up. What happened to Sarah's "Value of human life?" She would have thrown a fit if Cameron or Derek left two innocent people to die, especially since it seems it's her fault that the motorcycle assassin came after them in the first place. Now that I think about it, where was Derek?

Cameron was a bit bitchy this episode. It seemed like more than 'protecting' Connor, especially the milkshake thing at the beginning. I was half expecting Cameron to turn around and accuse Riley of knowing she was a Terminator because of the distinct uneasiness around her. I also got the vibe that Cameron secretly enjoyed walking in on Riley's suicide attempt although maybe that is just me. .

I think they're trying to imply that Cameron is very, very jealous of Riley. Especially after John's make-out session in Self Made Man. I had to laugh because my sister-in-law acted the exact same way about a guy she liked, but was already taken. Feigning interest in what the girlfriend likes, guilt trips ("You didn't buy me a smoothie"), and sabotaging any kind of intimacy between them.

[Anguirus]

I came down on the side of "3." Good character moments, but the plot, as several of you have pointed out, sucked. I also want to know where the hell Derek was.

Anyone got a YouTube clip of that preview trailer? I missed it cause I was flipping to "Heroes."

[PREDATOR490]

I suppose the latter might be as Shroom suspects. Weaver has access to the infrastructure to repair Crom. and the HK thingy is another part of her exploits into Termies.
I suspect that Weaver may have been sent back to do exactly that, set up the infrastructure to make sure Skynet will come to pass.
A.K.A Be a counter force against Conner and Co's attempts to change the future.
At the very least, by repairing Crom. she clearly has access to the materials required.
Although that theory kinda gets dodgey considering her recent actions. The situation with Bible Thumping Ellison is getting annoying, they were playing the religious angle since the beginning but the new stuff seems to be getting more and more suggestive. Notice that Crom. had his guns in a bag that had a religious picture, nailing him in a church etc.
The overall point however remains a complete mystery. Either Weaver is acting for Skynet or is working against Skynet but in either case the way she is going about it seems rather... out of character for a Terminator. I'm half expecting to find out she IS Skynet downloaded into the T-1000 and she is essentially trying to create herself like John did with Kyle Reese. It looks to me she is more interested in Ellison for some strange reason, the same way Crom. was intrested in him from the start. Makes it more suggestive that Ellison has some sort of connection to the Terminators.
That said, Skynet supposedly went bad after getting mad and I cant help thinking that Ellison is going to be the trigger point for that if he keeps up the religious bullshit.
I know for a fact it was making ME get pissed off listening to him preach, I can only imagine a sentient AI is going to be REALLY pissed off if Ellison keeps acting like a Bible thumper when faced against Skynet's cold logical arguments. To which I hope there will be many and watching Ellison attempt to argue back result in him basically repeating the fact that Skynet / John Henry isnt human / just a machine etc.
Great way to make Skynet sympathise with humans eh ?
Constantly tell it your a freak of nature that is the spawn of hell etc.

The other option I see is Skynet developing a God complex and decide to 'purge the sinners' in nuclear fire. Although in that case, does this mean Ellison is actually the Kyle Reese of Skynet ?

On the one hand, suspense is nice but it really does get annoying when you start sensing the episode is written to basically pull along the viewer with the potential for a major revelation, only to be lumbered with filler bullshit or vague suggestions like this episode achieves.

[eyexist]

I suppose the latter might be as Shroom suspects. Weaver has access to the infrastructure to repair Crom. and the HK thingy is another part of her exploits into Termies.
I suspect that Weaver may have been sent back to do exactly that, set up the infrastructure to make sure Skynet will come to pass.
A.K.A Be a counter force against Conner and Co's attempts to change the future.
At the very least, by repairing Crom. she clearly has access to the materials required.
Although that theory kinda gets dodgey considering her recent actions. The situation with Bible Thumping Ellison is getting annoying, they were playing the religious angle since the beginning but the new stuff seems to be getting more and more suggestive. Notice that Crom. had his guns in a bag that had a religious picture, nailing him in a church etc.
The overall point however remains a complete mystery. Either Weaver is acting for Skynet or is working against Skynet but in either case the way she is going about it seems rather... out of character for a Terminator. I'm half expecting to find out she IS Skynet downloaded into the T-1000 and she is essentially trying to create herself like John did with Kyle Reese. It looks to me she is more interested in Ellison for some strange reason, the same way Crom. was intrested in him from the start. Makes it more suggestive that Ellison has some sort of connection to the Terminators.
That said, Skynet supposedly went bad after getting mad and I cant help thinking that Ellison is going to be the trigger point for that if he keeps up the religious bullshit.
I know for a fact it was making ME get pissed off listening to him preach, I can only imagine a sentient AI is going to be REALLY pissed off if Ellison keeps acting like a Bible thumper when faced against Skynet's cold logical arguments. To which I hope there will be many and watching Ellison attempt to argue back result in him basically repeating the fact that Skynet / John Henry isnt human / just a machine etc.
Great way to make Skynet sympathise with humans eh ?
Constantly tell it your a freak of nature that is the spawn of hell etc.

The other option I see is Skynet developing a God complex and decide to 'purge the sinners' in nuclear fire. Although in that case, does this mean Ellison is actually the Kyle Reese of Skynet ?

On the one hand, suspense is nice but it really does get annoying when you start sensing the episode is written to basically pull along the viewer with the potential for a major revelation, only to be lumbered with filler bullshit or vague suggestions like this episode achieves.

There's only one major flaw with this theory: Skynet wanted Ellison dead.

[Thanas]

Well, this was the first T:SCC episode this season that made me look at the clock, wondering for how long it would treck on before I was finished with it.

I am increasingly getting annoyed as to whatever guy at Fox writes the episode descriptions, because they have been getting way too attention grabbing for way too little pay off. Cameron and Riley clash...yeah, nice. When Cameron clashes with someone, I expect a freaking fight, not this passive-aggressive stuff she pulled this time.

As others have mentioned, Sarah is getting more and more stupid. Charging into a facility by her lonesome...not smart. Plus, her psychosis seems to worsen.

This episode has convinced me that Jesse is a lone gun and the worst plotter ever. Seriously, picking up a girl to come with you because she was "pretty", then treating your untrained operative like this? Terminal stupidity, methinks.

Now, apparently someone is building HKs. Nice. I only wish they had done a better reveal.


As an aside, Natalie Chaidez wrote the script and it seems like she is one for the filler episodes. Her other credits give her "Automatic for the people" and "Queen's Gambit", none of whom were outstanding episodes.

[PREDATOR490]

If Skynet wanted him dead, why send a Terminator back that looks like him ?
That suggests he was being replaced for some reason which is another mystery in the pile.

Skynet sends back a Terminator to kill Ellison which clearly indicates Ellison did something to warrent it. Crom.'s actions indicate he believed Ellison would lead him to the Connors but Skynet somehow decided that option wasnt viable anymore.... 8 years later.
Which leads to the idea that Skynet was aiming to replace him because of the connection with Weaver, just like the apparant replacement of Sherman's Sec.
Why would Skynet kill someone who is obviously helping Weaver create itself ?

Theory 1: The Turk ISNT Skynet - Rival AI Faction ?

Theory 2: The Turk IS Skynet - Skynet is sending these guys back to fufil a pre-destination paradox just like John did with Kyle Reese.

Theory 3: The Turk IS Skynet - Weaver has somehow went off the rails in her mission and now Skynet is trying to figure out what the fuck she is doing just like the rest of us

The main issue with 3 is the idea that Skynet somehow knows that it's own existance is being altered which indicates it knows what is going on in the past. This is logically impossible because Skynet shouldnt be able to know what has gone on in the past and still exist in the future, the changes should already have affected the future Skynet and thus become part of it's past. Thus, Skynet cannot logically consider Weaver's actions wrong if it's own creation is a result of those actions unless it wants to undo itself. Even more true when one considers that inorder to be created Skynet should end up with the memories of John Henry and thus know EXACTLY who Weaver is.
Thus I am leaning towards Theory 1. In which case, killing Andy Goodman apparantly achieved fuck all and I suppose that means the HK we see in this episode could be the ACTUAL Skynet being built by the military or something.

Unless someone can field another theory of course ?

[Thanas]

If Skynet wanted him dead, why send a Terminator back that looks like him ?
That suggests he was being replaced for some reason which is another mystery in the pile.

Skynet sends back a Terminator to kill Ellison which clearly indicates Ellison did something to warrent it. Crom.'s actions indicate he believed Ellison would lead him to the Connors but Skynet somehow decided that option wasnt viable anymore.... 8 years later.

I might just as well argue that Skynet directly wanted to replace Ellison because he somehow had been in contact with the connor clan. The problem is that you are arguing on a very narrow base of evidence here.

I think all speculations on Skynet and why he chose to replace Ellison is pretty pointless at this point, as it is eventually an argument that assumes Ellison will teach Skynet something that is a danger to it.

Which leads to the idea that Skynet was aiming to replace him because of the connection with Weaver, just like the apparant replacement of Sherman's Sec.
Why would Skynet kill someone who is obviously helping Weaver create itself ?

Hmmmm. Well, we do not really know that. We also do not know if the Terminator was the replacement of Sherman's sec or there to kill him.

Theory 1: The Turk ISNT Skynet - Rival AI Faction ?

Theory 2: The Turk IS Skynet - Skynet is sending these guys back to fufil a pre-destination paradox just like John did with Kyle Reese.

Theory 3: The Turk IS Skynet - Weaver has somehow went off the rails in her mission and now Skynet is trying to figure out what the fuck she is doing just like the rest of us

The main issue with 3 is the idea that Skynet somehow knows that it's own existance is being altered which indicates it knows what is going on in the past. This is logically impossible because Skynet shouldnt be able to know what has gone on in the past and still exist in the future, the changes should already have affected the future Skynet and thus become part of it's past. Thus, Skynet cannot logically consider Weaver's actions wrong if it's own creation is a result of those actions unless it wants to undo itself. Even more true when one considers that inorder to be created Skynet should end up with the memories of John Henry and thus know EXACTLY who Weaver is.
Thus I am leaning towards Theory 1. In which case, killing Andy Goodman apparantly achieved fuck all and I suppose that means the HK we see in this episode could be the ACTUAL Skynet being built by the military or something.

The character's name is Andy Goode. You seem to have a particular knack for misspelling his name. Anyway, there are many theories possible that do have at least as much basis as those you propose. What if Skynet decided to simply upload a copy of himself into John Henry and wanted to use Ellison to get access? What if Ellison tought John Henry something it later regretted learning? Repeat ad nauseam.

The point of the matter is, we do not know. And any speculation is pointless until further evidence shows up.

[Paradox]

I have a wild speculation: Riley isn't dead, her "attempted suicide" it an attempt to get John to really become attached to her, one way or the other. There just wasn't very much blood on the floor, she could have just slightly cut into her wrists and then laid there in wait for him to eventually check on her.

[Shroom Man 777]

Second, Sarah was shot before, and never before was she so "down" as this time. I'm no expert on gunshot wounds, but it didn't seem any worse than e.g. when she was shot in the shoulder in the pilot. She even seemed delirious in the end.

Legs have lots of big arteries. If they end up getting hit, then you're gonna be in a world of fuck.

Regarding Jesse and Riley: I don't think Jesse wants to kill John, I think she thinks that Cameron is dangerous and John has to be kept away from her. Riley's motivation for slitting her wrists really is a mystery to me, though I don't think that she's dead already, because there really wasn't that much blood on the floor - plus, how long was she alone anyways? Maybe two minutes while Cameron told John that Riley is lying.

I just don't think Jesse and Riley's intentions are for John's best interests. All we know is that Jesse intends to keep John away from Cameron (his protector), which was what Jesse told Derek. It's partly true, but it's not the complete picture. If they were doing something for the benefit of John Connor, don't you think Riley would do it with more gusto rather than hesitation and depression and neurosis?

Cameron's look wasn't delight at Cameron's suicide, I think it was more confusion. She had a hard time understanding suicide the last time the topic came up already.

I don't think she felt anything for Riley.

I still don't get how Weaver was able to fix up Cromartie that good. Ok, she propably could cook up the fleshy goo Cromartie used himself in season 1, and maybe she even could build an interface to plug puny present-day computers into a T888's hardware - but how did she fix the inside of his head up? They shot several rounds right into his head. Cromartie's "death" really didn't look as if there was anything left in this head to do any computing. Also, how did the AI learn to control the body?

Who's to say that Cromartie's fully functional? All he did there was sit down and move his hands.

Weaver helped design the AI. Perhaps it shares software commonalities with future Skynet machines. And she is in the possession of Terminator bits and pieces. She had a Terminator eye, the one she found in the nuclear plant (?), maybe she has more components or she's designed rudimentary ones.



You know, I'm really reconsidering this Three Dots shtick. It's weird and iffy. I prefer if they just stuck with outright temporal guerrilla warfare, like what they did with Alpine Fields, and other urgent stuff. T: SCC is in danger of losing its... tone, in danger of becoming different and not in a good way if they keep this up. This Three Dots thing is too contrived and the whole craziness is more in place with Lost or something, not Terminator. Stick to the Resistance and the military-industrial complex crap. Have an actual person targeted for termination lead them to whatever Weaver schemes there are or something. Right now, I think T:SCC is kind of wandering and a little lost and confused... it needs to find direction again.

That said, I'd be sad if Riley died. She's FAT FAT FAT, sure, and I didn't really like her... but I found her okay in an I didn't really like her kind of way. She's not a bad character and I disliked her because she was fucking up John and making Cameron sad, which means she wasn't superfluous or anything.

[Thanas]

I just don't think Jesse and Riley's intentions are for John's best interests. All we know is that Jesse intends to keep John away from Cameron (his protector), which was what Jesse told Derek. It's partly true, but it's not the complete picture. If they were doing something for the benefit of John Connor, don't you think Riley would do it with more gusto rather than hesitation and depression and neurosis?

Well, I bet Jesse is planning to kill Cameron, which might factor into it. Furthermore, let's not forget that Riley is a bundle of TEENAGE ANGST, so maybe betraying John was eventually to much for her to handle.

You know, I'm really reconsidering this Three Dots shtick. It's weird and iffy. I prefer if they just stuck with outright temporal guerrilla warfare, like what they did with Alpine Fields, and other urgent stuff. T: SCC is in danger of losing its... tone, in danger of becoming different and not in a good way if they keep this up. This Three Dots thing is too contrived and the whole craziness is more in place with Lost or something, not Terminator. Stick to the Resistance and the military-industrial complex crap. Have an actual person targeted for termination lead them to whatever Weaver schemes there are or something. Right now, I think T:SCC is kind of wandering and a little lost and confused... it needs to find direction again.

Well, considering that they had to stretch the storylines from 13to 22 episodes, I think we can expect a few more fillers.

As for Riley, I honestly do not care either way. Her storyline does not interest me at all and I still think Jessie was stupid for just picking up a random girl.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hrm...

The reason why the first season was awesome was because it was grim, gritty and realistic. The whole hunting the Turk and everything, it was cool. Suspense, detective work, plot development. That stuff also worked for Season 2.

But I'm afraid this supernatural vision prophecy shit is going to be T:SCC's undoing. It detracts from the grim, gritty and realistic and it's also one of the reasons why shows like nBSG are a little bit iffy. This crap is total bullshit and I swear to god, Thanas, you should dissuade your T:SCC friend from going with it.

On that note, hopefully this crazy stuff is just a one-shot wonder and will be used to put the guys on the right track - after Weaver and in deep on the military-industrial complex. That'll give the show the direction it needs again.

But I swear, if they take this crazy prophecy vision nonsense overmuch, even this Robot River nut might take a hike.