Are the Culture books worth reading?

[Darth Hoth]

Before the flames start, I have searched, but not found much useful in this regard; most Culture-related threads tend towards versus arguments, rather than discussion of the series.

I know little of the Culture franchise, only what I have picked up on the Internet (basically, that they are a computer-run anarchist utopia powered by uber that likes to change other societies). I have noted from various discussions that its supporters tend to say, "the tech doesn't matter much, it's all about the characters", but at the same time, most of the books seem to circle around the Culture meeting some other group and going all "Hurr hurr, these guys are all primitive! We'll modify them because!" Even if it is not masturbatory technowanking, it appears the Culture's superiority to everything else (except something called the Excession) is the basic theme, and the dilemmas are not about whether they can do whatever they like, but if they should. Am I completely wrong, from my in this case rather limited perspective?

The basic question would be, is the series interesting? Are there real stories with conflicts and challenges, or is it mostly comprised of the pseudo-philosophical babble that some authors like to indulge in? What is the general tone? Some quotes I have seen imply lightness like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and that is not generally my cup of tea.

[The Grim Squeaker]

The books are fantastic, and I would recommend them heavily as some of the better modern Science fiction (As opposed to Asimov, etc') out there.
Banks is a very good writer, there's little to no preaching (most characters focused on are outside of, or greatly dissatisfied with the Culture. The stories are interesting, strongly character focused with a great deal of development and some excellent plotting. ("Use of Weapons" has the best twist in a work of fiction since ESB in my opinion).
I can wax more, but I'm bad at it, so i'll wait for someone else to explain why the books are so good, deep and well written in a more eloquent fashion .

[Vendetta]

it appears the Culture's superiority to everything else (except something called the Excession) is the basic theme, and the dilemmas are not about whether they can do whatever they like, but if they should.

Not really.

That's the theme of Look to Windward, but only really that one book dwells on it in any way.

The basic question would be, is the series interesting? Are there real stories with conflicts and challenges, or is it mostly comprised of the pseudo-philosophical babble that some authors like to indulge in?

Yes, there are real stories. There's fairly little philosophical baggage attached, the only distraction (which is really most evident in the last couple of books, The Algebraist and Matter) is that Banks will sometimes digress for pages at a time about the latest mad shit he's just made up for a wee corner of the universe. This is often quite entertaining, but sometimes unrelated to the actual plot going on.

[Xon]

The Culture is very close to a utopia(ie dramtically boring), and as such all the books focus on when the Culture intacts with others and is mostly about when the Culture cocks shit up horribly or comes into conflict with someone else.

[Rochey]

I would definitely advise at least taking the time to read one of them. It's a very unique setting, and the plots and characters are generally excellent.
Most of the stories are character-driven, rather than just wanking about how great the tech is. The technology just sets the scene, it is the characters that make it worth reading.

[Crazedwraith]

Just don't go in expecting happy endings. I've never read a Banks story that didn't have at least an ambivilent if not out right dark ending.

[K. A. Pital]

They are good books. At least, measurably well-written sci-fi is ensured.

And no, the Hitchhikers Guide has nothing on the Culture. They are totally different stuff. I mean... well, like comparing "Traviata" and "Chicago".

As far as utopias being "dramatically boring" - there are technical and moral challenges in every utopia, including the Culture. If they don't exactly revolve around killing people and depriving them of their posessions to live on but around more ambigious moral questions, when technical solutions are already present - well, I guess that's not the fault of the utopia for being a little more advanced then that sort of "powerful plot".

Check "Use of Weapons" and if you like that, go on.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I would probably start with something a little easier than UoW first. CP is a good bet, although it is less Culture oriented than other books. That, or tPoG.

[Ford Prefect]

Use of Weapons is the best Culture novel, but it is certainly better to start with something like The Player of Games.

[andrewgpaul]

I started with Consider Phlebas, and I'd recommend others do, because it's a straightforward narrative - UoW has its special structure, Excession and Look To Windward are all over the place, and jump around from one viewpoint character to another. You can get a grip on the style and setting without wrestling with the structure of the narrative at the same time.

[Jadeite]

I started with Consider Phlebas first, but actually enjoyed Inversions, Player of Games, and Look to Windward the most out of all of them. Excession had plotlines I found it difficult to care about, and I was a bit bored with Use of Weapons at times (though the ending makes up for that).

[Connor MacLeod]

I read "Consider Phelbas" and enjyoed it because it didn't directly impinge upon the Culture in any significant ways per se. It dealt with alot of the universe but the Culture (and the Idirans) were largely in the background there. I also tried reading Excession, but I found myself skipping over alot of it because it was unendingly boring (The bets parrts were with the Gray Area were good as were some parrts about the Excession itself, but the stuff dealing with that Diplomat like dude or whatever the fuck he was was boring as shit to me midway through teh book onwards. I hardly remember any of that.) I sorta lost interest in the Culture novels after that (I also had Look to Windward but could never bring mymself to read it.) I may go with Use of Weapons eventually because I hear its good. I'd guess that the earlier novels like most authors are more tightly written and straightforward because the writer is still learning/testing the waters. I'd guess by Excession he's given more latitude and is thus prone to those "flights of fancy" authors get with their pet topics/agendas/whatever.

I guess it really depends on what you like your Sci Fi to be. I'd suggest starting with CP and moving onwards. If by you reach Excession you don't like the series then don't bother. If you're worried about spending money on them, ebook copies (if available) or borrowing from the library may be options (I borrowed them all from the Library, ymself.)

[Modax]

Some quotes I have seen imply lightness like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and that is not generally my cup of tea.

Funny you should say that. I`m halfway through Use of Weapons right now, and I have to say that the main character Zakalwe reminds me a great deal of Zaphod Beeblebrox, albeit toned down somewhat. For example, the scene where he arrives in Solotol and starts buying up entire hotels and streets is very reminiscent of hitchhiker. In general, however, the tone is somewhat darker than hitchhiker.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Vendetta, I'm afraid I have to correct you because The Algebraist is not a Culture novel.

[The Nomad]

I'd guess that the earlier novels like most authors are more tightly written and straightforward because the writer is still learning/testing the waters. I'd guess by Excession he's given more latitude and is thus prone to those "flights of fancy" authors get with their pet topics/agendas/whatever.

I've got that feeling too. While I gave Excession a second try and kinda enjoyed it, I couldn't bring myself to appreciate Matter (or The Algebraist, which, while not a Culture novel, left me with the same feeling of not really caring about the story or most characters' fate...). I'm a hardcore fan of the first Culture novels, but my interest in the later works of Banks has plummetted down.

[NecronLord]

it appears the Culture's superiority to everything else (except something called the Excession) is the basic theme,

For the record, the latest novel, Matter is set in large parts, among an aquatic race called the Morthenveld, who are older than, larger than (their capital nestworld, featured, has an entire Culture orbital in it as an embassy, essentially being ringworld times ten, and this one structure is home to more citizens than the Culture has. Even people used to the Culture cannot comprehend the scale of a Morthenveld Nestworld), and technologically equivalent to, the Culture.

Other than the Excession, in the realm of plot devices, there are also a number of 'sublimed' races and individuals, around which they have to tread carefully, as they possess the power to simply annihilate the Culture.

[Starglider]

The Culture books are awesome and must-reads of course (though Look to Windward and Matter somewhat less so than the rest, frankly).

As far as utopias being "dramatically boring" - there are technical and moral challenges in every utopia, including the Culture.

Definitely. At least two of Greg Egan's books involve functional utopias (Diaspora and Schild's Ladder) - the former doesn't even have any significant inter-character conflict in it, but it's still a good book.

[CaptJodan]

This topic actually catches me in the middle of rereading CP. I didn't like the book on the first read through, mostly because I had (apparently mistaken) preconceived notions of what it would be (which I blame completely on SDN, since it encouraged me to check out the Culture novels in the first place). After having reread it with a more open mind, I'm finding it a pleasurable read, probably one of Banks' easiest to follow and keep interested in. I'm in the minority, but Excession is still top on my list (haven't read Matter yet, waiting endlessly for paperback). After two reads (one with notions, the second with another open mind) of Use of Weapons, I can say I'll never be in the crowd that finds it his best work...the ending isn't worth the agonizing journey, for me Spoiler

I want people being flayed alive and hanging by their entrails, damn it, though admittedly what the ship and especially the chair represents in the end is great, just not enough

, but if you're worried that the Culture is the know-everything-see-everything type of utopia, it isn't.

I also wouldn't worry about the lightness you've seen in quotes. Banks has a great sense of humor sometimes that had me rolling, but few of his books are absent a dark tone, or a dark or ambivalent ending.

[Dark Hellion]

I listened to Matter as an audiobook and I greatly enjoyed it. I own Excession, and previous to reading it read Consider Phlebas and Use of Weapons (respectively). As has been summarized, the Culture is simply a background. The real novels are about abstract moral concepts and how the characters deal with them. Iain Banks asks good questions, and attempts to answer them. Not all of his answers are satisfactory but the ride is generally worth it. If you enjoy moral ambiguity read the novels. If you want good versus evil you will find the novels trite or boring.

[Vendetta]

Vendetta, I'm afraid I have to correct you because The Algebraist is not a Culture novel.

No, but it's a recent Banks SF novel that displays the same digressions from the plot into entertaining but occasionally flow breaking imagination dumping.

[andrewgpaul]

Matter isn't as bad. Perhaps it was the fact that The Algebraist was a new setting that inspired the huge wodges of text? Apart from the big digression (in the middle of a conversation!) at the beginning as to what a Shellworld is, most of the infodumps are less than a page.

[Zac Naloen]

Algebraist was the first Banks novel I read.

I thought it was a throughly entertaining novel. Good plot, good characters strong semi-hard scifi setting fleshed out well That manages to make a solar system seem huge and varied in a galactic setting and clear good and evil characters.

On the strength of that and knowing that Culture books although being a series aren't in any way related I requested Matter for Christmas this year. I am still reading it. So far it's an entertaining novel. Not as good as Algebraist but then I didn't really appreciate Algebraist completely until the second time through, the science fiction elements seem very much in the background and Algebraist seemed a more overt scifi novel. At first I was surprised by the lack of an obvious bad guy but I'm used to the moral ambiguity and am happy just to go along for the ride. So far Anaplian is the most interesting character can't wait to see more of her in the second half. Halfway through the book I can't work out who in the bigger picture is in the right.
Once again the characters are strong and interesting. I'm about halfway through and the length of time it's taken Anaplian to get not very far effectively shows an appreciation for distances involved in a structural way, rather than just having her disappear from the story for 200 pages after stating early on the number of days involved.
I could go on, but I wish I'd read a banks novel when I was younger. The difference in approach the scifi setting by the same author would have made a good essay for my sixth form coursework. Would have turned out better than one I did about Scifi TV anyway.

[LadyTevar]

Player of Games was the most recent novel I've read, and it showed just how far the Culture would go to correct a problem civilization, and how easily they'd use a Culture citizen as a catspaw.

It was a book I couldn't put down, with a fully-realized backdrop of a civilization for the story to play out upon. There are very few narative changes -- the one that sticks out in my mind was played for intense drama and pathos. I recommend it highly.

[DPDarkPrimus]

My only complaint about Player of Games were the narrative shifts at the beginning of each part which felt disruptive and were entirely unnecessary as the plot point they alluded to could have been revealed more elegantly in a different manner, IMO.

[Big Orange]

I'm a relative new comer to Iain Banks' sci-fi novels so I guess I can maintain my momemtum of interest in them no matter how recent or old they are. My favourite Culture novel is a tie between between Use of Weapons and The Player of Games. Matter wasn't exactly groundbreaking yet is for the most part an engrossing read, Excession is on hindsight overrated pretty much the GoldenEye of Culture novels but not necessarily terrible, while Banks' overall best sci-fi novel (which is non-Culture) is without doubt Against a Dark Background. The Algebraist is a runner up but I can understand why some people dislike it, with the irreverant and infantile Dwellers liking the sound of their own voices a bit too much, however that said it was generally a more interesting, deeper, and inventive non-Culture book than the rushed, gimmicky Feersum Endjinn.