nBSG: "The Plan" Talkback - (SPOILERS)

[Skylon]

Okay, so its out on DVD. I nabbed it yesterday. Spoilers ahoy!

I felt it was...okay. It was nice to see a more action-packed destruction of the colonies than the mini-series provided (looks like the Valkyrie-type Battlestar was the Colonial fleet's main-stay). As well as looks as the other Colonies.

However, it really didn't seem to answer anything much that we couldn't already infer, although going back to episodes like "Water" surprised me. There's a sub-plot with the doctor Cylon I'm not sure was necessary. Instead it felt like a trek down memory lane, back to seasons 1 and 2 from the Cylon POV. It also reminds me of how tightly knit the storyline of those two seasons was. Especially season 1, where episodes were literally set a couple days apart. It effectively does show these episodes from the POV of the Cylons.

However, my big question that was unaddressed is why the hell the hybrid baby was so necessary. Cavil seems so hell-bent on exterminating the humans, no reason is given as to why he would want the baby created in the first place.

[JLTucker]

However, my big question that was unaddressed is why the hell the hybrid baby was so necessary. Cavil seems so hell-bent on exterminating the humans, no reason is given as to why he would want the baby created in the first place.

Didn't Cavil say in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" that he wanted Hera so he could examine her to find out how to possibly save the Cylon race?

Anyway, I watched it yesterday and I enjoyed myself. I like how the film showed inner conflict from some of the Cylons; not all of them are about death and destruction. You have the Caprica-Cavil who wanted to destroy mankind as much as the Fleet-Cavil, but he eventually changed his tune. I also like that Fleet-Cavil basically killed the part of him that was human-like when he killed the child. The same goes for Boomer when she tried to off the Old Man. I like Fleet-Simon's subplot. He too is conflicted about carrying on the plan.

I know the film didn't add much but I don't give a fuck. The Plan provided further character development and I was satisfied.

[Skylon]

Didn't Cavil say in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" that he wanted Hera so he could examine her to find out how to possibly save the Cylon race?

Cavil didn't need Hera until the Resurrection Hub had been destroyed. I was looking for a reason from season 1-2 beyond the "procreation is a commandment." Or hoping for something anyway.

[Zac Naloen]

Am I misremebering what I watched or The Plan only dealing with what the cylons were up to up until the end of season 2, because up to then it was a complete mystery. It didn't really need to touch on Hera and plot surrounding her because that mostly season 3 and 4 stuff as far as cylons were concerned, and we saw all that mattered there.

[Darth Lucifer]

I love how some of the story holes that were left open were filled in, especially with John turning out to be the mysterious stranger who helped Ellen.

[Uraniun235]

Best moment of the whole thing is when Cavil sums up "the Plan" in one sentence: "The plan is, everything blows up a week ago." The big capital-p Plan alluded to at the beginning of so many episodes was just a sloppy mopping-up job that had to be done after a bunch of survivors slipped through the main attack.

Hilariously, "The Plan" also means that every single argument made here for "well, the Cylons must have been holding back when they were attacking Galactica, as part of some bigger Plan" is wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong! HAW HAW!

Oh, that was delicious. I'm savoring that.



There were some visual effects shots that were nice, although I think they suffered some flaws. They never seemed to get the scaling against the planets quite right. Also when we saw the... well, not MIRV per se, but close enough... when we saw the MIRVs go off, there should have been a bit more than just flash and oh hey there's one fireball, considering the altitude they split off at. Or maybe that was just another scaling/VFX error, I dunno.



I wasn't particularly satisfied with the "ooh look how they did it!" reveals. If anything I dislike the way that Boomer was being led by Cavil, I rather thought it was far more effective when she was just this unaware Cylon whose programming occasionally took over when opportunity presented itself. For a group that was actually collaborating and seemingly under some degree of leadership it certainly seemed way less organized and effective than it ought to have been. Also funny that they considered blowing up the Cylon detector a feasible objective, then decided to "discredit" Baltar, but didn't think to just blow up both Baltar and the detector at the same time.



I have to admit I was somewhat disappointed that we didn't get more on the perspective of the Cylons in the Basestars and/or in the Colony. I was hoping for stuff like a reaction to the Tylium raid in Hand of God or to the bomb-the-Basestar plot in the first season finale, or a discussion on why finding and killing those last fucking Colonials is taking so much time and effort.

[Avon]

I thought the mysterious plan turning out out to be mass incompetance was funny as well.
The "PR guy" cylons being forced to do menial labour was good as well.

I wonder how the guy with "mother issues" managed to get in charge of cylon civilisation?

[Zac Naloen]

He was the first born.

[charlemagne]

I liked how the 4s got a bit fleshed out, they always seemed pretty pale (no pun intended) to me.

The explanation for Leoben's obsession with Starbuck was strange, though. I didn't really buy it.

Some of the new viewpoints on old scenes were nice, but there haven't been any real huge "oooooh" points. Basically it was a huge display of incompetence while trying to mop up that puny fleet, which was hilarious in a way, but I really expected more. The way they pushed "the Cylons have a plan" down our throats back when season 1 + 2 aired this explanation is really lacking. Sure, when they wrote those seasons they didn't have any idea what that plan might be, but still.

Oh, and they didn't answer why the Cylons came after them every 33 Minutes at the very beginning.

[Zac Naloen]

Did I dream this or wasn't there some transponder on one of the ships and 33 minutes was the time it took them to triangulate their position?

[charlemagne]

Did I dream this or wasn't there some transponder on one of the ships and 33 minutes was the time it took them to triangulate their position?

It's entirely possible that I just forgot about this

[Uraniun235]

Did I dream this or wasn't there some transponder on one of the ships and 33 minutes was the time it took them to triangulate their position?

It was never explained in the show. I'm pretty sure one of the producers said there was no real reason, that 33 minutes just seemed cool.

One of my friends had an interesting idea that it took (some significant fraction of) 33 minutes for the Cylons to recover and reload all those Raiders that got launched every time.

[Bilbo]

Did they ever explain why only one Resurrection Ship was ever built? Or were there more than one and some were destroyed off-screen? There was at least one time in conversation where I believe a Deanna model said "there is no Resurrection Ship in range, she is just as dead as...." I forget the rest of it. But the implication is obvious. She said "no ship" not "the ship" which implies there is more than one Res Ship. I guess the rest could have been destroyed in the Civil War between the models. I am just wondering if any mention is made.

[charlemagne]

Did they ever explain why only one Resurrection Ship was ever built? Or were there more than one and some were destroyed off-screen? There was at least one time in conversation where I believe a Deanna model said "there is no Resurrection Ship in range, she is just as dead as...." I forget the rest of it. But the implication is obvious. She said "no ship" not "the ship" which implies there is more than one Res Ship. I guess the rest could have been destroyed in the Civil War between the models. I am just wondering if any mention is made.

Yeah, I've asked myself the very same thing. She very clearly said "no ship" not "the ship". Seems like they built a couple but in pursuit of the rag-tag fleet they got spread very, very thin. Or something like that.

[Gil Hamilton]

It was never explained in the show. I'm pretty sure one of the producers said there was no real reason, that 33 minutes just seemed cool.

One of my friends had an interesting idea that it took (some significant fraction of) 33 minutes for the Cylons to recover and reload all those Raiders that got launched every time.

I kind of favor the idea that the Cylons were just fucking with them, myself. It's not the Cylon Way to do things effciently when they can be dicks about it.

[Anguirus]

Did they ever explain why only one Resurrection Ship was ever built? Or were there more than one and some were destroyed off-screen? There was at least one time in conversation where I believe a Deanna model said "there is no Resurrection Ship in range, she is just as dead as...." I forget the rest of it. But the implication is obvious. She said "no ship" not "the ship" which implies there is more than one Res Ship. I guess the rest could have been destroyed in the Civil War between the models. I am just wondering if any mention is made.

Yeah, I've asked myself the very same thing. She very clearly said "no ship" not "the ship". Seems like they built a couple but in pursuit of the rag-tag fleet they got spread very, very thin. Or something like that.

There are at the very, very least two that show up in the show. One is fragged in season 2, one shows up in season 3 when the Colonials try to genocide the Cylons, and Cavil steals possibly the same one in season 4 before he starts wiping out the opposition. There are also a few mentions in dialogue of the Hub "controlling the functions of every Resurrection Ship."

Haven't seen this yet, hope to pick it up soon. Not to concerned about spoilers cause, you know, the show already happened.

[Junghalli]

I wonder how the guy with "mother issues" managed to get in charge of cylon civilisation?

What I'd like to know is how the humaniforms managed to pull stuff like slapping behavior-inhibitors on the new Centurions and generally become so dominant among the Cylons. It's not like the mechano-Cylons would be exactly helpless against them, and I have a hard time imagining a race of rebelling slaves just sitting there grinning as a bunch of meatbags waltzed in and started treating mechano-Cylons as disposable tools, i.e. doing the exact same thing that made the Cylons rebel in the first place. I may be anthropomorphisizing*, but I have a hard time imagining the old Centurions not reacting to that kind of stuff by taking the humaniforms aside and politely explaining to them why it's a bad idea to piss off your own military and they really want to reconsider their course of action.

* One can imagine goal architectures for the old Centurions that would lead them to mind being treated like tools but not care about their "brothers" being treated the same way, but either way it's definitely something that could use explanation.

Is this ever explained at all?

[Avon]

Is this ever explained at all?

I can't recall it being explained.
It just seems to be:
A)Final five show up and help the cylons create humanforms.
B)?
C)Centurions are slaves again.

I would assume that the writers just didn't think about it that much.

The consolation for the centurions is that, at the end, they got a spaceship and everyone else
got sticks and stones.

[Anguirus]

I'd be very surprised if the neo-Centurions were actually up and walking around before Cavil modified them for obedience. Remember, the Final Five made him first, and he had the opportunity to do things like kill off most of the Sevens before they came on line.

[CaptJodan]

I'd be very surprised if the neo-Centurions were actually up and walking around before Cavil modified them for obedience. Remember, the Final Five made him first, and he had the opportunity to do things like kill off most of the Sevens before they came on line.

Centurions were up walking around and thinking for themselves before the 5 entered the picture. Hence the first Cylon war, before human forms. I'm sure their level of intelligence will be explored in Caprica.

[Junghalli]

I would assume that the writers just didn't think about it that much.

I also suspect that's the case. Which is a pity, because it's fertile ground for a very interesting story. I generally wish more attention had been payed to the mechano-Cylons instead of everything about the Cylons revolving around the crazy antics of a dozen meatbags.

I'd be very surprised if the neo-Centurions were actually up and walking around before Cavil modified them for obedience. Remember, the Final Five made him first, and he had the opportunity to do things like kill off most of the Sevens before they came on line.

I mean the old Centurions. The ones from the First Human-Cylon War period.

[starfury]

I also suspect that's the case. Which is a pity, because it's fertile ground for a very interesting story. I generally wish more attention had been payed to the mechano-Cylons instead of everything about the Cylons revolving around the crazy antics of a dozen meatbags.

Yeah, destorying the focus of the Cylons and reducing the mechanical cylons into mere mooks for the Human cylons and their Melodrama really wiped out much of the underpinning of the show. They at least had a proper excuse for hating the colonials and seeing them dead, instead we got the human cylons constantly screwing around with the galactia, attacking and other stuff on capria, but never fully commited on the course they had long since started and simply efficiently wiping the Humans out completely as proper Skynet style Genocidal AI does, no they had to start to a civil war and got religion and doing a 180 and defecting the colonials over this. For me the little Luddite thing at the end felt beside the point, the Humans hating cylons and yet so desperate to become like them is just so illogical.

[Anguirus]

I mean the old Centurions. The ones from the First Human-Cylon War period.

But there's no evidence that any of them were modified at all. Some went off on their own (Razor), some were scrapped, apparently willingly (Razor) (possibly to transfer into human forms, as Cavil says he has a "Centurion side"), and others work for Cavil on the Colony, as far as we know willingly. There's actually no direct evidence that telecephalic inhibitors would work on old Centurions.

[Anguirus]

Saw it, liked it. They managed to tell a quite decent and consistent story, explain most of the dangling plot threads from season 1 and 2, and the only continuity error I spotted was Doral gets the explosives too early (in the show itself Boomer leaves a small-arms locker unlocked and he gets them right before he blows up).

I thought Boomer's characterization was quite good actually, she is clearly still a sleeper agent but she keeps her personality when she's "activated." The film makes it pretty obvious what's going on. They do a fair job setting up her relationship with Cavil in season 4 (I don't like the way they started to write Boomer in season 3 but this movie works with what's established pretty well.)

I'm not sure that Simon had to be put in the camp with Anders, but it was very interesting seeing "bad Cavil and good Simon" in the fleet and "good Cavil and bad Simon" with the resistance. It also helped make Giana's arc work (which I thought was pretty good stuff).

In summary, the only thing "wrong" with the movie are that it doesn't stand on its own terribly well (but it was never meant to). I thoroughly enjoyed it. Espenson wrote the worst ep of season 4 but I do like her wit and it shines through here quite a few times. Dean Stockwell is just terrific to watch.

[JLTucker]

I'm not sure that Simon had to be put in the camp with Anders, but it was very interesting seeing "bad Cavil and good Simon" in the fleet and "good Cavil and bad Simon" with the resistance. It also helped make Giana's arc work (which I thought was pretty good stuff).

Giana's story is quite good. The actress looked familiar so I did a check on IMDb and she was present in the miniseries, and she also happens to be Olmos's wife.