SM Ammo loads

[Eviscerator]

How much ammo, grenades or other assorted munitions do SM carry into battle? Heavy bolters, meltas and missile launchers are all good but they dont work without ammo. Assault Cannons are even worse as they have a stated ROF of thousands of rounds a minute.

Where do they carry all the munitions they need as there doesnt seem to be ammo reloads shown on the models.
Chaos Gate had inventory slots and you could choose medpacks, bolt mags, etc etc.
Dark Heresy gives the gear of a brother-sergeant as thunder hammer and 6 bolt pistol mags which translates to approx 60 shells.
Space Wolf makes reference to grenade dispensers which The Big Oaf cant work with his hands

Any other references in past material to how much boom-boom they carry in?

[Elheru Aran]

Not off the top of my head, but I do remember something about how boltgun magazines are cached in the shoulder pads or something like that. There are different interpretations of ammunition capacity given that different types of ammunition are obviously used-- caseless and cased, and then you've got fuel bottles for the plasma weapons and flamers.

Another thing to note is that Space Marines are generally shown as being quite accurate shots, therefore needing less ammunition in a firefight than standard humans would (see Brothers of the Snake, Space Wolf series). I personally don't understand why some authors feel the need to show them sprayin-n-praying, but that's their problem...

[Eviscerator]

Still they do run out of ammo and they are facing the Ruinous Powers where its not unusual to have to fight whole planets of cultists or other such enemies like Tyranids.

Heroes of the Space Marines had a story where the Captain chose to retreat rather than fight on (mainly cause of ammo depletion) and the Space Wolves had to use hellguns in one of the Ragnar books.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

You might find a lot more answers to your 40k questions if you post them on dedicated 40k forums, such as Warseer or BolterandChainsword.

[NecronLord]

Chaos Gate and Dark Heresy are the best we have, AFAIK.

Phillip Sibbering proposes a non-canon scheme for storing the ammunition on this page. He has however, rendered covers of several black library products, so it's possible he may work that in some time, and therefore make it canonical in at least limited instances.

[Ryan Thunder]

How much ammo, grenades or other assorted munitions do SM carry into battle?

What the fuck is SM?

[Aaron]

How much ammo, grenades or other assorted munitions do SM carry into battle?

What the fuck is SM?

SM=Space Marine.

These guys:



Essentially the Imperium's special forces.

[Ryan Thunder]

<snip>

My point is; How would anybody who hasn't at some point heard of or played 40K know that?

It's just lazy typing. Say it with me "Space Marine Ammo Loads". There, was that so hard?

[Aaron]

*shrug* Usually folks put WH40K in the title but this dude is new.

[dworkin]

Space Hulk (old rules) had heavy flamers with 6 uses before needing a reload (in the exansion rules) and Assault cannons having 10 bursts before reloads. For both the terminator could carry 2 such reloads.

In the new rules Heavy Flamers and Assault Cannons get six and ten shots/bursts only.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

In the new rules, Assault Cannons have one reload. Flamers do only get six shots. However, in the accompanying novel the missions come across more as sorties that only last a couple of minutes, and then the Termies return to SM-controlled zones for repairs and reloading. There are dedicated techmarine crews and servitors who follow the termies around (well, not exactly at the front line) to rearm them. It seems that it is also possible for Marines on longer missions to carry more reloads, but there isn't really time to worry about that in the novels.
Keep in mind that Terminators are not meant to spend a lot of time in the field but are rather droppodded or teleported directly into the enemy stronghold where they break the defense.

[dworkin]

Agreed, the Space Marines are supposed to be the sharp pointy bit of the spear and all that, Terminators are even more so. Extended slugathons is the Guard's job.

[Pulp Hero]

If the artwork is anything to go by, they carry between 0 and 2 extra magazines, however these magazines will always contain "just enough" ammunition.

40K is Heavy Metal and plays by different rules than real life.

[Connor MacLeod]

Aside from DH or RT, IA3 mentions the Space Marines depicted int hat sources as carrying three "magazine pouches" - whether this is single or multiple I dunno. 4-6 seems likely, given thats the similar loadout for a Guardsmen's ammo (depending on source) but it could vary.

Energy weapons (esp for Devastators) seem to run off backpack power sources or power feeds, so they can have very large ammo capacities (anti tank lascannon have something like 20 shots IIRC).

Missile or grenade launchers? Your guess is as good as mine. IIRC both modesl the Marines use come in magazines so they probably carry double digit grenade and single/double digit missile loads.

Heavy bolters IIRC are often chain fed, so similar to with energy weapons.

Hand grenades will depend greatly on your source. Early edition 40K 1st/2nd edition had the idea that SM grenades were coin sized devices that were pulled from dispensers - Marines could carry tons of these and did (The Sapce Wolf novels being the most obvious holdover of this example.) Modern 40K seems to have given SM's bigger and more convenitonal grenades (more powerful perhaps?) but fewer in number (IA3 mentions a Marine carrying only a couple such, as opposed to potentially dozens of the coin sized type.)

[Aaron]

Aside from DH or RT, IA3 mentions the Space Marines depicted int hat sources as carrying three "magazine pouches" - whether this is single or multiple I dunno. 4-6 seems likely, given thats the similar loadout for a Guardsmen's ammo (depending on source) but it could vary.

IA3 actually has the Raptors carrying four mags each (three in pouches and one in the weapon). What's fucked up is that the number of mags is the same for boltguns and bolt pistols: 4.

[Aaron]

IA3 actually has the Raptors carrying four mags each (three in pouches and one in the weapon). What's fucked up is that the number of mags is the same for boltguns and bolt pistols: 4.

Ghetto Edit: boltgun mags holding 20 rounds and pistol mags holding 10.

[Eviscerator]

Heroes of the Space Marines: Renegades short story has a passage where the Captain calls for ammo check and the Lascannon Marine reports 35% load in the power pack. The Las Marine fires one shot shortly after and warns he is at 30% and no more than 6 shots remaining.
Further on the Captain says they are 70 days over their predicted combat threshold.

Wargear reference book says of Astartes Bolt weapons:
Mk VIb Boltgun: 20 - 30 rd sickle mag
Mk III Bolt Pistol: 6 - 10 rd mag
MK VII Stormbolter: 40-60 rd drum mag
MK IVc Heavy Bolter: powered feed or hi-cap box mag.

Dark Heresy Core rulebook gives the capacity of bolt weapons as
Pistol: 8 shot
Boltgun: 24
Heavy Bolter: 60

Later on it also states that "civilian" bolt weapons cannot be confused with Astartes issue.
Maybe what we need is an Dark Heresy expansion that covers role playing a Space Marine so we know exactly what kit they carry on their persons

[Aaron]

Purge The Unclean covers the gear for a Deathwatch Brother Sgt. Lists him as carrying 6 bolt pistol mags (10 rounds each). The Inquisitors Handbook has a carbine that uses black market Astartes shells, which are so big in comparison to civvie ones that it can only carry three housed in the stock.

Both of those are DH supplements.

[Cykeisme]

Yeah, the Dark Heresy products are the first to acknowledge the fact that Astartes-scale weapons are all significantly more powerful than human-sized weapons.
Frankly, this should be obvious already, not due to better design or manufacture (although that may be a factor), but simply because they're so much freaking bigger.

Regarding the OP, just because the tabletop models don't show spare magazines and/or loose ammo pouches strapped to belts and webbing doesn't mean that Astartes don't carry an appropriate amount of ammunition for a mission.
Those ammo hoppers attached to assault cannons and back-mounted heavy bolter ammo feeds look like they have enough to kill a decent amount of shit even without reloading.

And as Bob the Gunslinger mentioned, even in extended operations, the battlefield-end of a Space Marine supply train is manned by Techmarines and their servitors; even those are fairly formidable combat units that are less adverse to proximity to enemy activity than the supporting units of a conventional military force.

[Lord Revan]

IIRC one of the first horus heresy books (1 of the first 3 focusing on the Luna wolves/Sons of Horus(I think it was the second)) said that typically a space marine carried enough ammo to get the job done without need for ammo resupply (granted Luna wolves specialized on on surgical attacks so their ammo need could be less then some other legions/chapters).

[Eviscerator]

IIRC one of the first horus heresy books (1 of the first 3 focusing on the Luna wolves/Sons of Horus(I think it was the second)) said that typically a space marine carried enough ammo to get the job done without need for ammo resupply.

in the 31st Millenium they didnt have Necrons or Tyranids. Nor did they have to contend with a planet turned to Chaos. In Sons of Fenris and both the short story in Renegade the Marines run out of ammo. They have to resort to hellguns (Wolves) and capitulating (Renegade) respectively.

[Cykeisme]

Necron forces, too, tend to deploy in small elite groups as well.
You're right about Tyranids, though, although I don't think that it is at all possible to carry enough ammunition to last an entire hive fleet invasion.
Certainly no one is saying Space Marines have unlimited ammo, but obviously they do have more spare magazines and loose cartridges than the 28mm scale models show.
The Ultramarines did defend Macragge after all.

What's your point, by the way?

[Darwin]

Necron forces, too, tend to deploy in small elite groups as well.
You're right about Tyranids, though, although I don't think that it is at all possible to carry enough ammunition to last an entire hive fleet invasion.
Certainly no one is saying Space Marines have unlimited ammo, but obviously they do have more spare magazines and loose cartridges than the 28mm scale models show.
The Ultramarines did defend Macragge after all.

What's your point, by the way?

between drop pods, teleporters and thunderhawks, (they almost always operate with orbital support) re-supply is never far away for the Astartes. They travel light because they CAN.

[Eviscerator]

What's your point, by the way?

My point is, surely somewhere in the Codex Astartes there must be an appendix or some sort on
"ammo issue to Space Marine units" or something meaning the same. As i said, in the 10k years since Horus, the Imperium now has to contend with
1) Chaos
2) Tyranids
3) Necrons
4) Even MORE Orks

Additionally the Marine of the Post-Heresy era has to contend with far less support assets than a Heresy-era Marine. There are too many cases in point where the only support available is a single Strike Cruiser or other such vessel. Pre-Heresy the Legions could expect to be deployed with plenty of support from all arms but post Heresy this is most definetly not the case.

Correct me if im wrong then, but i contend that the Mission of the Legions was to "boldly go where no man has before"
Today their Mission is more akin to "fire brigades" as in the concept they have to rush here and there to respond to all kinds of threats.

If we were to use a modern day analogy then, i think it would be like this
Pre Heresy: SS Division/Soviet Guards Division
Post Heresy: Marines/Special Forces.

[Lord Revan]

I'm sorry if my wordinf seemed to imply infinite ammo load, it's quite clear in the text that under normal mission conditions it was rare (or atypical) for a space marine to run out of ammo before the mission was completed, but as I said before the Luna Wolves specialized in surgical "decapition" strikes (cut of the head and leave the body to die in their words), so their per mission ammo need could less then likes of Space Wolves or World Eaters.