Ringworld found by Adaptus Mechanicus

[The Yosemite Bear]

An AM exploration fleet finds The Known Universe Ringwold, with it's miriad of human and other descended species living there. They are as well armed as their Known universe versions, including Scrim, GP Hulls, Ability to turn their primary star into an insanely accurate anti-ship weapon, lasers of Known Universe magnitude, Longshot drives which aren't effected by Warp, Stasis Shields, etc.

So what happens next?

[Ryan Thunder]

They destroy it, if they can, because its not part of the Standard Template Construct, and they're imbecilic techno-scavengers, rather than scientists and engineers.

If they can't, they declare it off limits and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Samuel]

Or they colonize it. You could fit trillions on it, although supporting them might be difficult. I'm think many of the natives have crossed the line from ab-human to xeno or mutant, but they might not be exterminated, if only because they natives can't ever build spaceships. Unless this is before the Puppeters unleashed the bacteria that ate superconductors.

As for not using any of the tech... even if they were that dumb (and they aren't- the Imperium does innovate), FTL drive that ignores the warp is something they would almost certainly claim. Wheter the toys they get ever see get distributed to the rest of the Imperium is a different question.

[NecronLord]

They destroy it, if they can, because its not part of the Standard Template Construct, and they're imbecilic techno-scavengers, rather than scientists and engineers.

If they can't, they declare it off limits and pretend it doesn't exist.

If you don't know what you're talking about, keep stum. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Not only are you wrong (they are scientists, they just have incense dispensers bolted on) but you're also shockingly ignorant of the setting. Archeotech systems don't need to be STC to be venerated. So long as they think it's human built (and hell, the fact that the controls are on a map of sacred Mars would probably make them think they built it) it'd be the most sacred thing in the galaxy to them.

The C'tan might swing by to sabotage it, once they find out that it has non-warp FTL that would allow the Imperium to survive the Great Warding as a viable polity.

Heh heh heh. I wonder what the Imperium's reaction as a whole to the Mechanicus claiming it as a sovereign domain of the Machine God would be...

[Zor]

It might be a comprably if not a bit more interesting a scenario if it was discovered in an out of the way section of the Galaxy by an Air caste exploration ship.

Zor

[Hawkwings]

Well it would be far more interesting if an Ecclesiarchy fleet found it.

[The Yosemite Bear]

space wolves find it and meet the domesticated bat-cats....

look it's a human!, the one prey we must never hunt!

[Ford Prefect]

They destroy it

Nonsense. Something like Niven's Ringworld could practically act as the philosophical end point of the Quest for Knowledge. No explorator would even consider destroying something like this. It will be fuel for all manner of scientific and theological debate for centuries.

[The Yosemite Bear]

not to mention it would be a big F.U. to the Eldar, look you pointy eared Degenerates, this is even better and bigger then your wimpy craft worlds, and all evidence would suggest it was made by humans (made by the Pak, who later made the humans, so yeah)

[Darwin]

Clearly made by man in ages past and forgotten about in the Great Dark Age, it obviously belongs to Mankind and its Immortal God-Emperor. The only question is whether the Adeptus Mechanicus will share.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

By Ryan's logic, the Imperium would have obliterated all the Blackstone fortresses or simply not used them...

[Ryan Thunder]

they are scientists, they just have incense dispensers bolted on

Yeah, scientists who pray to machine gods. That makes sense.

but you're also shockingly ignorant of the setting. Archeotech systems don't need to be STC to be venerated. So long as they think it's human built (and hell, the fact that the controls are on a map of sacred Mars would probably make them think they built it) it'd be the most sacred thing in the galaxy to them.

Ah, sorry.

By Ryan's logic, the Imperium would have obliterated all the Blackstone fortresses or simply not used them...

The OP referred to the Admech specifically, so I answered for the Admech specifically. The Imperium is not the Adeptus Mechanicus.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The OP referred to the Admech specifically, so I answered for the Admech specifically. The Imperium is not the Adeptus Mechanicus.

And the Imperium happens to be even more xenophobic than the Adeptus Mechanicus?

[NecronLord]

they are scientists, they just have incense dispensers bolted on

Yeah, scientists who pray to machine gods. That makes sense.

Do you therefore deny the existence of all the scientists who believe in the bearded god of Israel? Or assume they're all incapable of their jobs?

Fuck, the Machine God actually exists, and is capable of a large chunk of what's ascribed to him/it. With that in mind, it is actually a scientific truth that the Machine God exists.

[Lost Soal]

By Ryan's logic, the Imperium would have obliterated all the Blackstone fortresses or simply not used them...

The OP referred to the Admech specifically, so I answered for the Admech specifically. The Imperium is not the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Who do you think retrofitted them when they couldn't get its own power supply to work for them?

Hell on Armageddon the Ad Mech is in a stand off with other factions of the Imperium because the want to get access to a Rok and study its tellyporta, as then quietly acknowledge to themselves that it is superior to their own.

[Ryan Thunder]

And the Imperium happens to be even more xenophobic than the Adeptus Mechanicus?

Tends to be, rather. You'll notice that they've run across alien civilizations that are more technologically advanced than them in the past and destroyed all evidence of them it merely because they were alien. They won't even bother trying to learn anything. Obviously, the Blackstone fortresses are an exception.

they are scientists, they just have incense dispensers bolted on

Yeah, scientists who pray to machine gods. That makes sense.

Do you therefore deny the existence of all the scientists who believe in the bearded god of Israel? Or assume they're all incapable of their jobs?

Don't be ridiculous. A scientist can have a religious belief and keep it separate from his work and actually do science rather than brainlessly proclaiming "goddidit". I see no evidence that the Adeptus Mechanicus does anything of the sort.

Fuck, the Machine God actually exists, and is capable of a large chunk of what's ascribed to him/it. With that in mind, it is actually a scientific truth that the Machine God exists.

Eh? I haven't heard this before. Where did that happen?

By Ryan's logic, the Imperium would have obliterated all the Blackstone fortresses or simply not used them...

The OP referred to the Admech specifically, so I answered for the Admech specifically. The Imperium is not the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Who do you think retrofitted them when they couldn't get its own power supply to work for them?

Hell on Armageddon the Ad Mech is in a stand off with other factions of the Imperium because the want to get access to a Rok and study its tellyporta, as then quietly acknowledge to themselves that it is superior to their own.

Aaand right on schedule, we have our second example. *Turns understanding of 40K on its head*

[NecronLord]

Don't be ridiculous. A scientist can have a religious belief and keep it separate from his work and actually do science rather than brainlessly proclaiming "goddidit". I see no evidence that the Adeptus Mechanicus does anything of the sort.

Do you have any understanding of the Sixteen Universal Laws and AdMech theology? Their entire belief is based around the Quest for Knowledge. The only one that's a direct hinder to progress is #16, "To Break with ritual is a break with faith." And even then, it's not a severe impediment at all.

Right, let me educate you: the ninth of the Sixteen Universal Laws "The Alien Mechanism is a perversion of the True Path" does have a xenophobic interpretation held by some techpriests and forge worlds; alien mechanisms are a lure to pull you to stray (NOT UNFOUNDED; OPENING UP AN ORK GUN MAY UNLEASH GRIBBLIES THAT DEVOUR THE WORLD) There are just as many techpriests that interpret that to mean The Alien Mechanism contains valuable knowledge that is to be pursued in the Quest for Knowledge and put to righteous use - the Alien Mechanism is still evidence in the Quest for Knowledge to those techpriests.

[Ryan Thunder]

Don't be ridiculous. A scientist can have a religious belief and keep it separate from his work and actually do science rather than brainlessly proclaiming "goddidit". I see no evidence that the Adeptus Mechanicus does anything of the sort.

Do you have any understanding of the Sixteen Universal Laws and AdMech theology? Their entire belief is based around the Quest for Knowledge. The only one that's a direct hinder to progress is #16, "To Break with ritual is a break with faith." And even then, it's not a severe impediment at all.

Ah. No, I'm not familiar with it. I'll just, uh, back out of this...

[NecronLord]

It's worth noting that many of the limitations on the Adeptus Mechanicus' Quest for Knowledge are in fact imposed by the Emperor - he forbad many technologies that would lead to chaos corruption for example, as well as sapient machines. While they believe in a god, and ritual, at the higher ranks, the Mechanicus is largely devoted to learning - and not just from STCs. Nor is the idea that all technology in the Imperium is regressing true; the space marine and terminator armour the Mechanicus creates "today" is far more advanced (though less 'honourable' to many Space Marines, when compared with thousand year old suits) than that of the Heresy. Mark 8, as of 999.M41, is a just developed version currently being rolled out, for example, and in many chapters, only used by squad leaders. The Mechanicus certainly has ridiculous rituals, but they also conduct experiments, do research in a wide variety of fields, from archaeology to social science (I shudder to think what that may entail, but appropriate divisios have been mentioned) as well as seeking out STC stuff. The reason they seek out a Standard Template Construct with such fervency is because the stuff is that bloody good not because they're stupid.

Similarly, without access to sapient machines, it's unlikely that the Mechanicus could develop anything as effective as the Standard Template designs at anything like the rate they can uncover them by sending explorators and their fleets out to hunt for them. Though that doesn't stop them doing legitimate research either.

[Serafina]

Those rituals are actually of some advantage - they are a great way of standarisation.

Think about it - if those rituals are pretty much the same all over the galaxy, that means that everyone everywhere can repair/use that stuff the same way.

Furthermore, it seems like those rituals are quite simple, even with the unnecessary religious stuff. So it's quite possible that they are easy to learn.

[NecronLord]

Mmm. The problem is, even Magi, who actually know a lot of stuff, use ritualistic methods of doing things, most of the time. Which is probably a hindrance more than a help at their level.

[Serafina]

Well, sure, it has disadvantages.

But then again, standarized methods are not necessarily a disadvantage in resarch and engineering, now is it?

But yes, overall, the Adeptus Mechanicus methods are certainly slowing them down. Propably a price worth paying (with Chaos and whatnor), but still, it could be better.

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh look, Ryan is strawmanning an aspect of 40k. I am sure we haven't seen this before.

In addition to the Blackstone fortresses and others mentioned, we do know the AdMech has studied Necron tech extensively (they seem to really like that - Caves of Ice and the Andy Chambers short story with the Necrons and AdMech IIRC), as well as some Eldar artifacts like Waygates.

Maybe you should, you know, actually do some research before opening your mouth for once?

[Connor MacLeod]

Mmm. The problem is, even Magi, who actually know a lot of stuff, use ritualistic methods of doing things, most of the time. Which is probably a hindrance more than a help at their level.

Part of that is because 40K is basically a universe with magic. Gods, demons, and other entities exist, and its quite possible for computers and vehicles to become demon possessed, so those rituals probably are neccessary to a certain degree. On top of that, one could argue a sort of "WAAAGH" like effect, just on a lesser scale, occuring with the AdMech stuff (all those litanies for example could be a unconscious psychic effect improving the effectiveness of weapons.) We know "blessed" weapons can even be more effective (the Mitchell Dark Heresy novels and that lasgun that got blessed by the techpriest.)

There's also the simple fact that like any other Imperial organization (Inquisition, AStartes, Ecclesiarchy) you have different factions with different ideas and goals and mindsets. They can be very liberal or very reactionary depending on inclination. The quasi religious aspect also acts as a very effective means of establishing a technologicla monopoly since they are th eonly "caste" who can make it work.

Despite all that, yes, it still is going to be a hinderance, and thus slower progression than, say, the tau, but it may be neccessary given all that. Alot of Imperial technology ties into the warp or psychic shit in one way or another (astropathy requires technololgy to function in some respects at least, there's also warp drives themselves, possibly in reactors, vortex weaponry, quite likely Mind impulse units given how they work, etc...) that caution is probably a necessity for them.

[white_rabbit]

The C'tan might swing by to sabotage it, once they find out that it has non-warp FTL that would allow the Imperium to survive the Great Warding as a viable polity.

It'll be interesting to see if this concept is picked up on in the background, now that Tyranids don't use warp immersion for their FTL travel.

Then again, as an extra-galactic threat that has nominally turned up while the C'tan were snoozing, its possible they haven't taken it into account, or the Great Warding is deemed enough to deal with the nids, hive mind oriented as they are.

Furthermore, it seems like those rituals are quite simple, even with the unnecessary religious stuff. So it's quite possible that they are easy to learn.

I like the possibility that with the newer information we get in Titanicus, Mechanicus etc that some of the ritualistic bullshit is actually the "haptic gestures" and noospheric interaction etc.

You'll notice that they've run across alien civilizations that are more technologically advanced than them in the past and destroyed all evidence of them it merely because they were alien.

Wow, I wonder if you are referencing stuff hopelessly out of context here.