Doctor Who "Vampires of Venice" (Spoilers)

[NecronLord]

Discussion thread.

[Bounty]

Title's wrong. They're not vampires.
Spoiler

They're fish from spaaaace!

[Bedlam]

Dam you BBC for putting it no earlier than normal and not telling me

I guess I'll have to i-play it later.

[Gemini-Preserver]

A very good and interesting story I felt. The climax reminded me a tad to much of Tennant climbing tall spires, at least he didn't get hit by lightning this time.
Must say though really looking forward to next weeks episode, mental trickery ahoy

[Atlan]

Started interesting, blown completely out of the water by the immense stupidity of the lead Female vampire at the end.
Spoiler

Seriously, sending out ALL of your fresh new females to kill someone? Someone sitting on top of explosives? The Doctor didn't kill your race, YOU did, you stupid twat!

[El Moose Monstero]

I enjoyed it, I thought the acting seemed a bit odd in places, not well polished, and my persistent complaint about the entire series is that the writing always assumes that all the characters have intimate knowledge of everyone else. Rory had known the doctor for a matter of hours and was happy to make a broad statement/accusation about what the doctor does to people, rather than just Amy. I can accept Amy doing it to some extent, though not quite as early as the second episode, which is where it bugged me, but Rory doesn't know him, only from Amy's cartoons as a kid, and I refuse to believe that even in anger, he'd make a broad judgement like that rather than focusing on what he's done to his fiancee.

I am however very much enjoying the actual presence of a clear problem and issue which is being led up to, not words just randomly dropped in like bad wolf, torchwood and Mr Saxton, but actual buildup. Distinct ominousness was enjoyable. I thought the pacing seemed generally about right, not frenetic, and the dialogue seemed ok. I certainly couldn't find anything particular to whinge about in the aftermath the way I could in the previous episodes, but then again, it also didn't have any bits where I felt 'that was awesome'.

[Srelex]

One thing that bothered me was that nobody seemed too bothered by the clothes of Doctor and co--Amy's exposed legs would have drawn some stares, at the very least. Or did I miss something?

[Gramzamber]

One thing that bothered me was that nobody seemed too bothered by the clothes of Doctor and co--Amy's exposed legs would have drawn some stares, at the very least. Or did I miss something?

Perception filter?

[Bedlam]

One thing that bothered me was that nobody seemed too bothered by the clothes of Doctor and co--Amy's exposed legs would have drawn some stares, at the very least. Or did I miss something?

There's a doctor who tradition of that sort of thing most people ignoring what the Doctor and companion are wearing. It could possibly have been hand waved by a line about Venice being one of the most cosmapolitan cities in the world but they dont seem to have bothered with it.

Overall a good story. A wonderful bit of tactlessness at the stag party at the beginning, the monsters although not amazing were quite interesting, the bit with the mirror was fun and it played around with a bunch of vampire mythos.

The male fish exploding in the reflected light seemed to come from no where they previously had been shown to not like light but there was no sign of them burning in even quite bright light in the past.

Isn't Venice going to notice 10000 person eating fish monsters in the water? Even if their all doomed to die of old age? A line about them all dieing off in a few hours / days might have cleared that up.

Next week does look rather interesting. Some link to the celestial toymaker maybe?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ok just finished watching it and I have to say first off
"REALLY? The Doctor really let Amy go through with going inside the school like that>

They talked about WHY it was a stupid idea, he says flat out its too dangerous, and AMy, all giddy, and giggly is like "Im going to do it!" And then the Doctor lets her... STUPID!
The Doctors companions are always put in danger... But I can't think of a time when the Doctor so willingly agreed to PUT her life at risk like that. They could have killed her 5 seconds after going into the school and there would have bee Nothing he could do to save her.

More to the point Why do the writers feel the need to basically have Amy dress in fishnet stockings and a mini skirt? I know that during the 60's and 70's of the original series fashion was different, but aside from Leela the Warrior babe, NONE of the Doctors companions ever went around dressed 'sexy' And it can't just be because she's "young" she's just the age of Rose and Rose dressed pretty casual in both seasons she was in.

Four episodes in The writers still can't seem to make up their minds just WHAT they want Amy to be, its like they are making her up as they go along. Again, with the old series virtually all the companions had good solid layouts of who they were how they acted, etc. And again Rose and Donna were fairly constant as companions in terms of how they acted (excluding Martha who went from strong willed, smart and rational, to weepy lovely dovely Infatuated with Doctor)

And AGAIN we had basically a Rehashing of Rose and Micky... I mean its them all over again, Amy falls for the Doctor and his finace gets left out, yes I know they seemed ot get together at the very end, but that was the very end of things.

And the fish people, ok good CGI good Story, but one, did anyone expect the Doctor to believe she was going to settle for only "one" city? And two, isn't the modern Doctor supposed to do one of those "I'll offer you a choice" thing? As in, if you agree to leave Earth Ill take you to some other world? Or are they ending that with the new incarnation.

And the end.. Again.. REALLY? The Fish Queen is killing to kill thousands, sink a city, "Bend the sky" as she said to save her race... But after a few get killed and her plan set back, She just walks into the water and kills herself? Wouldn't THAT be the point for the Doctor to say "I can save your people! Its ok!"

And the fish people.. So, Unless the Doctor kills'em off screen, we are supposed to believe they left 10,000 man eating fish aliens loose in the waterways of 1500 Venice?

OY!

[Xon]

It was amusing when the Doctor flashed the psychic paper for the 2nd time in the ep (on the first venture into the spacefish people's compound), it showed a picture of the First Doctor as a librarian.

[TC Pilot]

Not a librarian, it was his library card.

Anyone else find it odd how they kept showing that human servant with repeated looks of disgust/horror/distaste at everything that was going on, as if something was actually supposed to happen with him, and which would have made sense? I mean, jeez, you're a guy in 1580's Italy and your employers are hellish monsters that drink blood! Do something! It's not like they're being subtle about it, either. All that girl's father had to do was pull a veil away to make them show their fangs.

[Bedlam]

Not a librarian, it was his library card.

Anyone else find it odd how they kept showing that human servant with repeated looks of disgust/horror/distaste at everything that was going on, as if something was actually supposed to happen with him, and which would have made sense? I mean, jeez, you're a guy in 1580's Italy and your employers are hellish monsters that drink blood! Do something! It's not like they're being subtle about it, either. All that girl's father had to do was pull a veil away to make them show their fangs.

Seeing as he was last seen stealing the family silver I'd guess he was willing to put up with alot for the money. Which makes me wonder where the refugee fish people got the money, did they replace real people and nick all their stuff?

[2000AD]

Regarding the left over immature fish people, I was under the impression they were in a sealed off area, like a creche, not just out and about in the entire Venice waterway. Given that they seem to eat any human on sight and the boss lady wants to keep them a secret it would be prudent not to have them swimming all over Venice eating people, or presumably leaving Venice via other waterways.

[Teebs]

The last few episodes all seem to fall down if I start thinking about them, but be sufficiently entertaining that I don't particularly want to.

Also, did anyone else do a double take when they basically did a penis joke between the Dr and Rory over the flashlights?

[PREDATOR490]

2

I have to agree with the point that the Doctor demonstrated an extreme amount of idiocy allowing Amy to go in. Not just the fact he about faces so easily but HE HAD ANOTHER FUCKING OPTIOn.

The guy offers him the ability to use gunpowder to get in. Oh right, Doctor would rather risk his companion's life by putting her in a position he has no idea what could happen rather than use the powder. I get they dont want to have the Doctor running around with a gun but for fuck sake.
Even more stupid when last episode demonstrated he WILL use a weapon... soo uhh, was that alright because HIS life was at stake ?

To compound the Doctor' error, he sends them in with his psy paper. Yeah, its not like theres a GOOD chance these creatures are not human and thus make it likely they are resistant to the stupid thing.

Frankly, the entire plot of this thing was a long line of stupid decisions born from a contrived situation in the first place. I can see where they are going with bringing the Fiance along though. Its just another Mickey / Rose thing where the series will treat the guy like shit for no real reason. We already got the beginning of that with the lame penis joke.

'Yours is bigger than mine'

Fuck off.

Incidentally, we see the Doctor cannot open a bolted door with his screwdriver. Something which only serves to highlight my increasing frustration with it since the new series started. We see this thing doing everything but whenever the plot demands it cannot be made to work, which becomes increasingly stupid when they keep using it to do EVERYTHING.

That said, I will give them credit for making it visually quite good both in the effects and setting. The initial scene with the party was a bit amusing as well but after the rest of the episode I would have seen that guy literally beat the shit out of the Doctor. I found the about face Rory did far too convienient. He was quite right in giving the Doctor a slap in the face to show what he is doing to his companions but the episode magically turns Rory into a companion by the end.

[Gramzamber]

Also, did anyone else do a double take when they basically did a penis joke between the Dr and Rory over the flashlights?

I did, especially in light of the fact that RTD was going to do the exact same joke with the Master's laser screwdriver vs. the Doctor's sonic, but didn't go through with it because he thought it'd be stupid.
Not a great level to sink to when you're doing something RTD considers stupid.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I dont know, I think it sort of worked, if we assume that Rory's comment wasnt innuendo or was self mocking or whatever.

I liked the episode. It was well-placed, and it was nice to see that the damn sonic screwdriver cant do everything.

It also confirms once again when Amy (and Rory) are from.

The bit at the start was funny, and showing that the doctor doesnt get everything right is good ("Good, I thought I'd jumped out of the wrong cake...again")

[Drooling Iguana]

I think this episode really shows how well-cast the new season is. This script has a lot of problems, but the performances are good enough that the episode was still fairly enjoyable.

It's odd that, before the season started I was pretty apprehensive about Matt Smith taking over the role but was looking forward to seeing what Stephen Moffat could do as show-runner. Now things are completely reversed, with me loving Smith's work on the show (being able to make even a bad script worth watching, something Tennant never managed) but disappointed with Moffat's work. Sure, he didn't write this episode but he still approved it. He could have sent it back for another re-write or made some revisions himself to clear up some of the plot holes but he didn't. I get the feeling that Moffat's great episodes in the previous seasons were due to him only having one story to work on per year and therefore being able to put a lot of thought into it; give him a whole season to manage and he starts dropping the ball.

Still better than RTD, though.

[Gramzamber]

One thing I did like, when Rory is asked to go along as a companion at the end. His answer: Hell yes.
I thought he was going to pull another Mickey with the 9th Doctor for a second, refreshing that he didn't do that. I hope he lasts more than an episode or two though, I'm tired of the male companions fleeing after a couple of episodes.

[GuppyShark]

So, is there a BBC-mandated minority quota or are there actually historical examples of Africans working in the Venetian Armory as shipbuilders?

[DarkSilver]

Gave it a 3....

Defiantly the weakest episode SO FAR this season, but still enjoyable thanks to the acting.

Liked the whole bit when he screwed with the perception filter of the girls "Completely converted, nothing human left....never have fish from space been so.....busty."

Smith's delivery of lines are pretty good.

Next weeks episode looks to be pretty good to.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So, is there a BBC-mandated minority quota or are there actually historical examples of Africans working in the Venetian Armory as shipbuilders?

I bawked at that as well ,especially as he seemed relatively well off. But I have NO clue how blacks were during 1580 Venice so who knows.

[2000AD]

So, is there a BBC-mandated minority quota or are there actually historical examples of Africans working in the Venetian Armory as shipbuilders?

I bawked at that as well ,especially as he seemed relatively well off. But I have NO clue how blacks were during 1580 Venice so who knows.

Struck me as a bit off too, but I guess if pushed they can allways claim that it's Dr WHo, there's cracks in space time messing around with stuff, maybe some enlightened ideas came through and re-wrote time a little.

[Hillary]

So, is there a BBC-mandated minority quota or are there actually historical examples of Africans working in the Venetian Armory as shipbuilders?

I bawked at that as well ,especially as he seemed relatively well off. But I have NO clue how blacks were during 1580 Venice so who knows.

A certain Mr Shakespeare suggested it was possible for a black man to be a general in the Venetian Army a mere 23 years later.

"Minority quota" - fuck you! Are you even trying to suggest that minorities are anywhere near fairly represented on British TV?