Which is better for melee, chainswords or lightssabers?

[LordOfWolves]

Just another burning nerd/n00bish question I have:

Which is better for melee combat? A chainsword or a lightsaber? For example, if a Jedi and an Assault Marine (armed with nothing but his jump pack and chainsword) crossed "swords," who would win based on weapons alone? (Skill is out of the equation, so assume that the playing field is more-or-less equal, in a sense.)

Personally, I think that both are pretty handy weapons to have, but the burning question is which one should I reach for when it all goes south?

Go on, discuss!

[Stark]

Since a lightsabre cuts through heat and not mechanical blade action, its almost certainly more effective and lighter. Unless the chainsword is resistant it's pretty one-sided.

[Srelex]

A lightsaber not only has superior cutting power, but can be easily concealed and is far more easier to handle.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

What others have said. While I'm partial to the chainsword on cool factor alone, the lightsaber is just hands down the more effective weapon.

It's an odd comparison though -- the 40k counterpart to the lightsaber is the power sword.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Typically the saber, but I can see situations where the chainsword would be better. Such as against something like energy/lightsaber resistant armor ("Cortosis weave" being one such), which has caused problems for lightsabers in the EU. Chainswords being rather brute force wouldn't be likely to have such a simple counter; you've need heavy armor, not some trick "anti-chainsword" fabric. And even if you had such a substance, it still hits like a heavy metal bar; lightsabers have no mass behind them.

In fact, plate the chainsword with that cortosis stuff and the contest just got more even.

[Stark]

What? If something resists the passage of a lightsabre, it hits like a solid object.

Even make of stupid EU crap a chainsword is still heavier, louder, limited by its cutting elements and the strength of the user, etc.

[Batman]

In fact, plate the chainsword with that cortosis stuff and the contest just got more even.

Err-how? You can now block a lightsaber with a chainsword. That makes the chainsword a competitive melee weapon-how, exactly?

[Connor MacLeod]

Come on a chainsword? Its a fucking chainsaw sword vs a lightsaber. You should have at least gone with a power sword vs a lightsbaer, since those two are more comparable.

And "which is better" is going to depend on what you're going for in a weapon. Supposedly (at least in earlier fluff or some versions) the teeth of the chainsword were monomolecular which I suppose means its really really sharp (but then again they have monomol swords that can cut effortlessly inot deck plating similar to what a lightsaber might do so.. meh.) so it has that going for it as well as the "chainsaw" aspect.

The fact that a lightsaber blade uses thermal effects as a primary damage mechanism can convery some advantages over the chainsword, although you can't really compare the mechanisms (mechanical damage of cutting teeth vs heat? Come on). Anyone hit by it is going to have nasty burns and alot of materials won't easily resist it (shielded, or materials optimized against heat probably would have an edge.) Also, in theory (at least), lightsaber damage should be independent of strength (although in practice, the quasi-magical nature of the lightsaber means that at least in some cases this won't apply.) Lightsabers possibly would be more effective against materials, although this is again "depends" (different damage mechanisms and all that.)

But because Lightsabers use a primarily thermal mechanism, they're very energy intensive, especially on higher settings. Burning something is not the most efficient way to do damage really, although the fact the lightsaber tends to be fairly locailized (its burning a narrow cutting channel through) mitigates this somewhat. Lightsabers usually also tend to cauterize on contact, which elimiates blood loss as a damage mechanism (something that a chainsword is unlikely to do.) Chainswords probably also make larger, messier, lacerating type wounds rather than a clean incision. Because it cauterizes too a lightsaber probably burns out many of the nerve endings in and around the wound, so I suspect pain and overall sensation would be lessened (something I dont think one can say for the Chainsword.)

That higher energy output is likely also to make the weapon more detectable to sensors (although its more compact and easily concealed than a large, bulky chainsword.) It can also impact things like recharging the weapon or operational duration (chainsaws probably consume less power, so for a comparable power source may have a longer lifespan, assuming components actually hold out.) Lower energy output may be contracted by mechanical complexity (although not knowing enough about lightsabers again this is a "maybe".)

Handling is going to be pretty much even: both weapons are incredibly difficult to handle compared to a "normal" weapon. Lightsabers supposedly have little or no mass to them which is going to be hard to work with. Chainswords tend to be heavier than a non-chainsaw sword because of all those extre mechanisms you stick into it (and also noisier.) and the way it works is also going to add some complications to holding or using the weapon.

Psychological factor may also matter. This is somewhat subjective, but I'd actually find the chainsword a more terrifying weapon to face than a lightsaber given many of the reasons above (the kinds of injury it probably would make, the way the weapon works, the kind of person who would use it, etc.) and I'd much prefer being stabbed by something that is going to make a narrow burn hole through my body that won't bleed much (if at all) and may not hurt all that much (I'd be surprised if nerve ending survived much proximity to a lightsaber blade.) But that's just me.

[Venator]

In fact, plate the chainsword with that cortosis stuff and the contest just got more even.

Err-how? You can now block a lightsaber with a chainsword. That makes the chainsword a competitive melee weapon-how, exactly?

Not to assume I know what Lord of the Abyss is thinking, but I understood it as making a situation of two weapons that can parry and such without one being sliced to pieces with minimal effort.

Not even, but more even as was said.

[Connor MacLeod]

Cortosis ore would suck as a material to stick on a chainsword, since as I recall it's fairly brittle and chainswords are as much a bludgeoning blunt force type weapon as it is "cut like a fucking chainsaw with sharp edges in it" type weapon. They're fucking heavy and swung with alot of force and I question whether Cortosis on the damn thing would stand up to any abuse.

Besides which, aside form the magical/retarded "shorting out" property it supposedly has (depending on your source), the only real quality cortosis had was it had good thermal properties. Any sort of thermally resistant mateiral (like those vibro arm shield thingies from Shadow Point, Blast doors, etc.) could stand up to a lightsaber, and 40K has it sshare of similar materials that might work and not be nearly as retarded as Cortosis.

I should note that now I think about it, the KIND of melee matters. If we're talking a mass battle or CBQ I dont think a Chainsword OR lightsaber would be ideal, since both need or usually are weapons that are swung(although sometimes they stab, they don't seem to be really designed fo rthis) and thus require a fair bit of room.

[LordOfWolves]

Those of you asking for a power weapon/power sword vs Lightsaber duel...well, the chainsword is more iconic to a degree. Besides, power weapons would be too similar to Lightsabers; the duel between the combatants would drag on for hours, plus skill would become a factor.



Now, that being said, I must say that I, personally, would grab both if I could (as I have stated before), if only for the hell of it. I would also, however, reach for the chainsword for the sheer cutting power and the psychological factors, if I could only reach for one of the two. Question is, should I have grabbed the 'saber instead?

[Stark]

So skill isn't a factor between chainswords and lightsabres?

In what sense is a chainsword's cutting power greater than a lightsabre anyway? Can you open foot-thick blast doors with a fucking chainsaw? You don't even need ear protection to use a lightsabre!

[Lupercal]

A lightsaber can cut through bulkheads, so yeah, the lightsaber.

[LordOfWolves]

So skill isn't a factor between chainswords and lightsabres?

I didn't want too many factors bogging down the debate, you see. It would just drag on. (Besides, we all know the Marine would win...)

Can you open foot-thick blast doors with a fucking chainsaw?

Yes. Space Marines have done it.

[Srelex]

Yes. Space Marines have done it.

Except that with a lightsaber, you won't have shards of metal flying in your face, and plus, cutting something with a chainsword, which has a curved end for crying out loud, is less difficult than just sticking a lightsaber in a door and then cutting a circular shape, as Jedi casually do.

[Stark]

What debate? Lightsabres are better, lighter, smaller, will make you less deaf, rely less on your own strength, etc.

And Space Marines have done some pretty stupid shit, and their helmets doubtless prevent hearing loss. The mental image of a space marine slowly sawing his way down through a foot-thick door while the sound of shrieking metal cripples everyone around is hilariously dumb. How can you cut through a door when the sword is wider than the cutting surfaces?

[Ford Prefect]

Except that with a lightsaber, you won't have shards of metal flying in your face, and plus, cutting something with a chainsword, which has a curved end for crying out loud, is less difficult than just sticking a lightsaber in a door and then cutting a circular shape, as Jedi casually do.

No, you'll just get shitloads of molten metal.

[Stark]

At least you're not deaf and it doesn't take a bulldozer to force the chainsaw through the metal?

Games Workshop not understanding how chainsaws work is pretty funny.

[Ghost Rider]

Ok, let's be honest. Space Marine versus Jedi with only these weapons comes down to the fact when they clash which weapon is going to cut through which.

Unless said chainsword has either a mini force field or is made of an exceptional dense material it loses against the lightsaber.

As for which is the better weapon in melee? Varies completely on situation since as it stands both weapons are fucking obnoxious to determine since one is literally "Chainsaw with a hilt!" and the other is a blade that will slice body parts off by you trying to compensate for no fucking guard. So if we go from two wielders of equal skill? I would be more scared of the chainsword, but the lightsaber is going to be superior as a weapon.

[Stark]

Common chainswords appear to be pretty short, and they're quite fat, so while sabers are dangerous for normal people, chainswords are going to suck for regular people too. Without leverage (ps GW doesn't know how chainsaws work) you're really going to have to swing that chainsword with a lot of force to cut anything serious.

[Connor MacLeod]

Cutting through a blast door with a lightsaber is clearly not a standard setting, since the energy inputs typically required there would generate obviously nastier effects on a living being were that the case (at the very least there'd be huge plumes of steam and sprays of ash flying from the point of impact (at worst the person is going to be boiled/cooked alive, or possibly just messily ruptures in some fashion from all that steam). and I'm disregarding the inconsistent qualities of the lightsaber when it comes to cutting as it is.) and it may or may not have drawbacks as a result that would limit its effectiveness in combat (draining the power cell being the least of them. We simply don't know enough about lightsber oprations to even conjecture.)

It's rather obvious a lightsaber can put out more energy than a chainsword (duh) but it's fucking retarded to assume that "more energy" automatically means "better effect" (and I say this as someone who HAS precisely thought that way in the past.) Nevermind how one compares that to a weapon that clearly does NOT operate on purely thermal principles (I don't even see why a chainsword would NEED to cut through thick doors - thats what they have powerfists and explosives for.)

[Stark]

Except lightsabres are lighter, smaller, cut without as much force, don't make you deaf, are longer when extended, etc I guess?

Cutting giant doors is just an example of lightsaber capability; obviously it's meaningless in a swordfight. But this guy is talking about preferring the chainsword for some reason, and there are obvious reasons to prefer the saber (not least the ability to tape it to your gun and use it as a megabayo).

The hypocrisy of complaining about power use for lightsabres is laughable. I'm going out on a limb and saying that a fucking battery powered chainsaw might have a larger problem there, and it might be pretty bad depending on how it's gears/electric drive/etc.

[Ghost Rider]

As for swords, both suck.

The chainsword is essentially a multi-toothed blade with the weirdest backing, and the engine....is in the guard. So the weilder has to compensate that his blade is vibrating, his blade is only meant cut and not stab, and worse still...it'll get stuck as it's teeth are doing a job it was made for.

The lightsaber's main problem is training for a weapon that is only hilt. It makes body movements different as you have to constantly be aware of the blade but never feel the blade as you move with it.

In this aspect, the lightsaber sucks less because you have to be aware of the blade versus having the weapon work against you.

[Stark]

I'm unsure how the chainsword should cut anything like armour etc; on impact it'll crash in, the impact will breach armour, but then the user will have to yank it out (since the blade is wider than the chain) or try to put enough leverage onto it to continue cutting. It sounds like a disaster after that first hit. The geometry of the tip (where the chain curves around) means that if you catch anything on the front end, it'll tend to pull the sword out of your grip. YAY!

At least you can gaff-tape a handguard onto a lightsabre; the chainsword sucking is a direct result of it being a fucking stupid idea. There's a reason everyone who can uses power weapons.

[Sea Skimmer]

A chainsword could have the damn chain break or slip off or otherwise jam. That alone would make it far inferior to a lightsaber, even if both had otherwise totally equal cutting and piercing power.