Doctor Who S5e12 "The Pandorica Opens" [Spoilers]

[Crazedwraith]

I'm recording this not watching it live but I thought I'd throw up a commentary thread anyway.

[Zac Naloen]

It started really weak, but was pretty much saved by it's last 25 or so minutes.

So how do they get out of this one?

[Gramzamber]

So how do they get out of this one?

The reset button is going to be jammed so hard it's going to fall out the other side.

[Zac Naloen]

So how do they get out of this one?

The reset button is going to be jammed so hard it's going to fall out the other side.

Well yes, it would have to be.


The question is whether the way it's done is good.

[Crazy_Vasey]

I thought that was pretty fantastic but there's so much potential for the second part to be absolutely abysmal that I'm quite apprehensive of next week's episode.

[Gramzamber]

One sure way to ruin it: Make the voice in the TARDIS be Davros.
But no.. they're not that stupid.. I'm sure. Really. No. Just no.

[Sharp-kun]

Nothing I'd complain about. Enjoyed it.

Next episode will decide it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

As it makes a small amount of sense and isn't a colossal deus ex machina, I'll be happy.

I found the whole alliance part being good guys, or trying to be, very satisfying. The Daleks not being all evil "Lets kill everything." It would appear the new paradigm are willing to overlook their xenophobia for survival. I'm curious as to who the voice saying "Silence will Fall" is. I'm thinking, from the tone, either the Beast or his son Abbadon. Or possibly Omega/the OTher/Rassilon, for variety. Maybe the Time Lords will return for good in a non-evil form.

Dunno why I'm even thinking this though. It's going to be a big deus ex machina, simply because the problems too big to solve any other way

And, OMG, have they done to Amy what it looks like they've done?

Inciedentally, bit on the credits afterwards "on BBC3 we look at some of Amy's greatest moments" my first reaction - the miniskirts

[Bedlam]

One sure way to ruin it: Make the voice in the TARDIS be Davros.
But no.. they're not that stupid.. I'm sure. Really. No. Just no.

It did sound rather Davrosy to me, however, I wonder if he was destroying the TARDIS or saving it?

I know its sad of me, but I really loved the Doctor standing on Stone Hendge like a Rock star and Telling the whole universe to come and have a go if it thinks its hard enough.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That was good. This episode proves that Moffat can still belt out a good episode, even if his series running hasn't been so good

[Zac Naloen]

There's something about the tone of Smiths voice when he gets those rousing speeches that just makes that final spoken line sound way more awesome than when Tennant did them.

[NecronLord]

My bets for how they're going to get out of it? The Daleks will realise it's not him and let him out. Or possibly one of the others, but my bet would be the daleks. Possibly with some scene where the Daleks actually fight to liberate the Doctor.

I know its sad of me, but I really loved the Doctor standing on Stone Hendge like a Rock star and Telling the whole universe to come and have a go if it thinks its hard enough.

Fortunately, it actually makes sense that they didn't just come down and shoot him in the face this time. I'm assuming the reason for imprisoning him rather than killing him is that the Judoon or the Draconians or one of the not-evil others mentioned objected to him being killed for something he's not done yet.

[Zac Naloen]

Question is, would the TARDIS had gone off and blown up even without River in there if it's being controlled remotely?


Second question is, who the hell can control the TARDIS by remote control?

[Zac Naloen]

Fortunately, it actually makes sense that they didn't just come down and shoot him in the face this time. I'm assuming the reason for imprining him rather than killing him is that the Judoon or the Draconians or one of the not-evil others mentioned objected to him being killed for something he's not done yet.

I quite like the idea that they were just laughing at him and just went off to wait for the pandorica to open

[NecronLord]

Fortunately, it actually makes sense that they didn't just come down and shoot him in the face this time. I'm assuming the reason for imprining him rather than killing him is that the Judoon or the Draconians or one of the not-evil others mentioned objected to him being killed for something he's not done yet.

I quite like the idea that they were just laughing at him and just went off to wait for the pandorica to open

Yeah, that's the point there?

I meant not killing him in general. The obvious solution would be to shoot him in the face rather than construct an uber-prison.

[Gramzamber]

My bets for how they're going to get out of it? The Daleks will realise it's not him and let him out. Or possibly one of the others, but my bet would be the daleks. Possibly with some scene where the Daleks actually fight to liberate the Doctor.

Would be interesting, but the cynic in me tells me it's going to be a case of the Daleks going "Aha! Now with the Doctor out of the way we will continue our real plan to delete the universe! EXTERMINATE!"

[NecronLord]

Question is, would the TARDIS had gone off and blown up even without River in there if it's being controlled remotely?


Second question is, who the hell can control the TARDIS by remote control?

The Time Lords were able to do it in The War Games though on that occasion, the controls also moved. The Second Doctor and the Rani had TARDIS remote controls too.

Other than that, I'm drawing a blank.

[Zac Naloen]

My bets for how they're going to get out of it? The Daleks will realise it's not him and let him out. Or possibly one of the others, but my bet would be the daleks. Possibly with some scene where the Daleks actually fight to liberate the Doctor.

Would be interesting, but the cynic in me tells me it's going to be a case of the Daleks going "Aha! Now with the Doctor out of the way we will continue our real plan to delete the universe! EXTERMINATE!"

Did you miss where every sun everywhere blew up at the end there?

In trying to prevent the end of the universe they all caused it.

[El Moose Monstero]

Minor gripes.

Did they really need the Romans and the world from Amy's head? I mean lets face it, once you've got the doctor standing there telling you all to go fuck yourselves and that the first person to attack had better be sure, why not just all land at once, capture him and drag his sorry ass to the Pandorica? Your trap has already been sprung and he's stuck in it. Without the tardis, all you really needed was one of those domes from the episode with the drill and he's not going anywhere and you can come and kick the shit out of him.

I did really like the idea of the universe banding together to imprison him. Would have liked to have seen more good guys, rather than villains. Maybe if they'd spent more time on other planets and non-human places in the past series, we could have had clearly benevolant and wise races coming to imprison him, rather than every enemy race + a couple of ambivalent races. Also, you would have thought that their overly-elaborate trap might have included a plan to get the tardis. That's sort of like me keeping a live atomic bomb in my garden, people coming to arrest me and leaving the bomb there, live and ready to go off. So what if I'm the only one who knows exactly how to work it, you could still fuck everyone by something fiddling around with it afterwards.

----

I really didn't like the first 20 mins. I will keep an open mind, as many of the things I didn't like turned out to have a reason, so the remainder may be explained next week.

The start was shite. I could have done without River's pointless fucking around with time again - not sure how necessary it was, when all you really needed was to get River + Van Gogh painting to the Doctor. There's a good five mins of pointless scenes with other characters from the first few episodes we could have done without, and the whole cyberman corpse thing I also thought was a waste of time. However, they might have a reason for these next week, so I'll let them off for the moment.

On the whole, an ok episode with a good back half and a nice idea, with a clear big red reset button on the horizon, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, so we'll see. Not sure how much the whole overly-elaborate-trap plot line holds up, but I enjoyed it after the reveals started turning up.

[Bedlam]

I'm not sure where Rory is suposed to have come from.

Now hes an Auton duplicate, however, the original was suposed to have been removed from time and space so he never existed in the first place. So where did the photo in the book that he was suposed to have been made from come from? Amy never met him, the photo was never taken.

We have seen time travellers resist the removal effect, the doctor remembers him, Amy sort of remembers him. Maybe the Daleks or Cybermen didn't forget he existed but it doesn't really explain why they put him there.

Not sure why there are even cybermen there really, is the aliance suposed to have been shifted through time but a race with time travel like the Daleks? Or is this another bunch of Cybus Cybermen who fell out of the Void in which case the place should change its name to the seive as everything in it seems to get out eventually.

[Gemini-Preserver]

Never mind why the Cybermen are there. When did the Sulirians turn up!
Got to say I did chuckle at the time vortex manipulator. Yes jack you may be immortal but were still having your arm.
wait..what? Why didn't River use that to escape the TARDIS?

I'm going to need a second watch to see any parts I missed but on the whole it was a very enjoyable story with only a few 'Get on with it your boring me' moments. specifically the Amy Rory part.
Its good to see that the Moff still has the ability to pull one out of the bag.
I wonder how you Deus ex the universe imploding though? In a none sucking way of course.

[Sharp-kun]

Not sure why there are even cybermen there really, is the aliance suposed to have been shifted through time but a race with time travel like the Daleks? Or is this another bunch of Cybus Cybermen who fell out of the Void in which case the place should change its name to the seive as everything in it seems to get out eventually.

Could be the original Cybermen. Can't remember if they were ever wiped out in the time war and they did have time travel iirc.

[Srelex]

They did have the Cybus logo IIRC, but that could just be the props department being lazy; they did mention 'cyber-ships' and whatnot.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The conclusion to the Pandorica Problem next week will be

EITHER:

It will be big, will lots of impressive CGI and excessive use of the Sonic Screwdriver

OR:

It will be small, unnoticed amid the amy/rory thing, and STILL involve excessive use of the Sonic Screwdriver

River's dead, Amy's shot, the TARDIS is gone and the Doctor is imprisoned, by the bad guys turned good guys who fail to stop the entire universe exploding. And some mysterious guy/force/thing was driving the TARDIS

Oh, God no. I just a horrifically bad thought.

What if it's Rassilon with his "Final/Ultimate Sanction" shit again?

[Gramzamber]

The whole crack in time erasing thing is so incredibly inconisistent.
It erased Rory but his photo remains? I can buy the ring because it was in the TARDIS, but this is too far.
Also, how does AutonRory have continuity of conciousness with the real Rory up to his death if the alliance had the Nestene make him from what they found in Amy's house?
Did they get Amy and probe her memory at some point.. oh wait, memories she doesn't have? Oh wait, she does have them if jogged sufficiently?

I know it's cosmic nonsense but even cosmic sonsense should be internally consistent.