Gundams vs. the Empire

[Jesus Yamato]

Simple topic; Gundams (from all of the diffrent universes) vs the Empire, what is everyone's opinion?

Personally, I think it would be a slaughter on both sides, but I think the Gundams will pull a win.

A few of the reasons for my opinion are listed below;

Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon (from Gundam Wing) both posess Zero Systems, which can essentially predict the future.

The Akatsuki Gundam (from Gundam SEED/Gundam SEED Destiny) is coated with a type of armor that reflects beam based weapons, such as turbolasers.

The Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice Gundams (from Gundam SEED/Gundam SEED Destiny) are able to use massive mobile weapons platforms called METEORs, and can lock onto and fire at multiple targets at once.

The battleship Libra (from Gundam Wing) posesses a main cannon which is powerful enough to easily wipe something the size of Hawaii clean off the map.

The GENESIS Cannon (from Gundam SEED/Gundam SEED Destiny) is somewhat similar to the Death Star, while not blowing a planet to pieces, GENESIS will flood the planet with insanely high levels of Gamma radation.

Anyway, what does everyone else think?

[Srelex]

Do you mean the factions the Gundams belong to vs the Empire? Aren't said factions usually limited to a few planets at most? My knowledge of the franchise is sketchy, so feel free to correct me.

[Jesus Yamato]

Well, there are multiple Gundam universes, I'm saying that if said universes all intermixed with each other along the Star Wars Universe.

I'd imagine that the Gundam pilots would very quickly see the Empire as the tyranical orginization it is, and decide to wipe it out.

Link to some more info: http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/index.htm

[Havok]

Unless Gundams can traverse the length of the galaxy in a few DAYS, this isn't going to be anything more than a simple mop up job on the part of the Empire. It will just come down to hit and runs and destroying bases, supplies, whatever... before any Gundams can even respond.

Also from what I know, the Gundam-verse is fairly small in scale as compared to the Empire, which is a galaxy spanning industrial machine with effectively limitless resources. Does Gundam bring anywhere near that type of industrial capacity to the table?

The Empire has planetary shields, which as far as we know, can stop pretty much anything besides a Death Star, so wiping Hawaii out and trying to shoot radiation at a planet seems like a trifling affair do defend against. Assuming that Gundams can even get to the Empire's planets.

Firing at multiple targets at once is childs play, as that is something we can do today. It is nothing to even note.

As for reflecting turbo lasers... I will leave the numbers to others, but that isn't going to do anything against the sheer power that the TLs bring to the table.
A tank can deflect a single rock thrown at it. A tank can not deflect a 10,000lb rock dropped on it. That is what we are talking here.

Also, if you are going to start this type of debate here... you better bring some hard numbers and evidence to the table... Saying 'X can blow up Y' means absolutely fuckall without the numbers to back it up.

[Jesus Yamato]

Again, the Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future, in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot.

[General Zod]

Nobody has FTL in any Gundam universe, and they're all restricted to the Earth's solar system. Really, this is about as balanced and interesting as a group of US Navy aircraft carriers taking on a bunch of primitives using paddle boats.

[Jesus Yamato]

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future, in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot, the twin buster rifle also has unlimited power, and no recharge time is needed between shots.

So, I'd hardly think this is as one-sided as you guys believe.

[Srelex]

Prove that this rifle can destroy an ISD. Show numbers and calcs. Otherwise I can just say that a single TIE fighter can blow up the most powerful Gundam model.

[Jesus Yamato]

Wing Zero's buster rifle has been shown to be easily capable of obliterating space colonies the size of a Star Destroyer, wth only one shot.

[Srelex]

How big exactly are these colonies? What are they made of? Do they have shields? How much debris was produced?

[General Zod]

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future, in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot, the twin buster rifle also has unlimited power, and no recharge time is needed between shots.

So, I'd hardly think this is as one-sided as you guys believe.

"Unlimited power" is utterly meaningless fluff. The Empire has also dealt with precogs before, so that's hardly an asset. Fact is that the Gundam universe simply can't compensate for their total lack of FTL.

[Corpsman]

Wing Zero's buster rifle has been shown to be easily capable of obliterating space colonies the size of a Star Destroyer, wth only one shot.

There is no comparison between the two. ISD's have powerful shields, dense armor, are a moving target, have fighter screens, an insane amount of heavy and light guns (which by the way are all capable of wiping out Hawaii independently,) and regularly absorb punishment that would obliterate continents.

[SapphireFox]

Wing Zero's buster rifle has been shown to be easily capable of obliterating space colonies the size of a Star Destroyer, wth only one shot.

While I remember the Gundam Wing episode in question and the one shot colony frag, the nature of the space colony is a hollow shell of unshielded spinning metal. This feat while impressive and likely to be noticed by the ISD is not likely to one shot an ISD. The main and likely medium guns of said ISD would be easily be able to accomplish a similar feat on an unshielded colony.

[Havok]

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future

And what good is predicting the future, if in that future there is a massive... I am talking MASSIVE military build up in your solar system that you are absolutely powerless to stop... MILLIONS of Star Destroyers... What exactly are you going to predict... annihilation?

"We predict there will be one thousand big triangle ships at our coordinates! Send 100 Gundams to-" EXPLODE

Oh and I have been informed that Gundam doesn't even have faster than light travel... this is such a one sided curb stomp, it isn't even funny.

[lord Martiya]

Wing Zero's buster rifle has been shown to be easily capable of obliterating space colonies the size of a Star Destroyer, wth only one shot.

True. Too bad that no colony had the kind of armor or shielding of a Star Destroyer. Besides, from what I saw the twin buster rifle has just a bit more firepower than a single barrel of a ISD main gun.
Between that little difference in firepower, the numerical disparity, the speed advantage of the Empire both strategical (hyperdrive) and tactical (the only thing comparable to SW crafts acceleration I've ever seen was a once-in-a-time reactor for extra-solar exploration appeared in the manga G-Unit, and was treated as something exceptional), the fact Imperial AA guns are MUCH more powerful than a Gundam battleship main gun and that simple fact the Empire has already wiped out thousands of guys with Zero System or Newtype-like powers (i.e. Order 66), I think the Gundams would be wiped out even if they were all replaced with Epyons armed with Twin Buster Rifle and crewed by clones of Lalah Sun who believes the Empire wants Char dead.
Let me tell you one thing: the only weapon in Japanese sci-fi capable of defeating an Imperial fleet is the Grand Cannon from Macross, and even that would happen only once, for if just ONE hyperdrive-equipped starship escapes that the next attack would BDZ Earth from out range.

[General Zod]

Let me tell you one thing: the only weapon in Japanese sci-fi capable of defeating an Imperial fleet is the Grand Cannon from Macross, and even that would happen only once, for if just ONE hyperdrive-equipped starship escapes that the next attack would BDZ Earth from out range.

There's plenty of Japanese series that could trump an Imperial fleet simply due to their absurdity; Gundam just isn't one of them.

[Korgeta]

Have to go with the empire. Yes it's ships do not have the best 'aim'

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future, in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot, the twin buster rifle also has unlimited power, and no recharge time is needed between shots.

So, I'd hardly think this is as one-sided as you guys believe.

Gundam 1; What do they predict?

Gundam2: They say were screwed.

--

I don't watch all of the Gundam series but nowhere have I seen anything that is formidable. Tie fighters, heck the only thing that couldn't possibly defeat a tie fighter is the hubble telescope! The star destroyers and such are different beasts altogther. Their what define the Empire. And for good reason, their huge, well shielded, lots and lots of guns.

Compared to the gundam universe. The mechs cannot be how you claim them to be, seriously, the clip below shows the gundams having to hide and and just about evade several rounds of enemy firepower. one character has his mech trapped within a net.



There is no way those mechs can carry weapons that have the power to disable shielded vessels and destroy star destroyers. The firepower from the mechs is just entirely unconvincing. I don't buy into how overwhelmingly powerful turbo lasers can be but the movies make it very clear 9and am sure han from the first movie comments that not even a fleet can wipe out a planet but his comments do acknowledge that the fleet of the empire can do tremendous damage to a world regardless just that vaporizing a planet is a step beyond a star destroyer) Gundam's range is amazingly short, and with how many guns a star destroyer has to fire a gundam will be doing more evading then fighting. In short their target practise.

Also FTL technology means the empire can pretty much bypass fleets and occupy the homeworlds and suddenly the mechs find they are a resistance force. gundam is one anime the empire will have little difficulty beating, due in part that gundams are a good show but are lousy designs with no tactical advantage.

[Commander 598]

If anything even remotely has a chance it'd be Turn A and/or Turn X.

[Wyrm]

Strategically, no. It's still just one unit. One unit that has the ability to destroy SDs, a navy which is fielded against opponents that it expects ought to be able to destroy SDs.

Really, JY is the Goddamn version of a Trekkie.

[Korgeta]

Well JY is a newbie, I think people can tolerate someone posting a one off topic about their favs going up against star wars, but if he learns nothing from it and makes more topics to try and counter claim without good argument then we can stamp the trekkie comparison on.

Let me tell you one thing: the only weapon in Japanese sci-fi capable of defeating an Imperial fleet is the Grand Cannon from Macross, and even that would happen only once, for if just ONE hyperdrive-equipped starship escapes that the next attack would BDZ Earth from out range.

I think this depends on how to what 'japanese anime/sci-fi' are were going to accept, Macross and the more realistic tech don't go well against the empire. However the more insane outlandish tech in shows like tenchi muyo have some absurd mecha tech including one that generates black holes, pulls ships out of hyperspace and can nullify all attack to zero.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future

Jedi can predict the future, didn't stop the empire from almost wiping them out.

in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot,

Evidence for this claim? The twin buster rifle never shows anything anywhere near gigaton levels of firepower, let alone several thousands of gigatons, which is what it would take to destroy a shielded Star Destroyer in a single shot.

the twin buster rifle also has unlimited power

No-limits fallacy. Also, provide evidence for this claim.

Hilarious troll is hilarious.

[Zinegata]

We are seriously gonna debate whether an inter-planetary power can defeat an inter-galactic power?

[Srelex]

Perhaps a more sensible discussion would be regarding the result of an individual ground battle between the two? At least marginally more fair, I'd say.

[Korgeta]

The Wing Gundam Zero and Gundam Epyon have systems that predict the future

Jedi can predict the future, didn't stop the empire from almost wiping them out.

in addition the Wing Zero's twin buster rifle could wipe out a Star Destroyer with a single shot,

Evidence for this claim? The twin buster rifle never shows anything anywhere near gigaton levels of firepower, let alone several thousands of gigatons, which is what it would take to destroy a shielded Star Destroyer in a single shot.

the twin buster rifle also has unlimited power

No-limits fallacy. Also, provide evidence for this claim.

Hilarious troll is hilarious.

Your a bit late jumping in to pick apart the arguments that others have already done, also I may be a bit rusty here, but last i checked isn't a troll basically some asshole who goes around saying your wrong ten thousand times over and becomes incredibly abusive if nobody agrees with him? The guy has only made 2 posts useing visual evidence that a mech can take out a SD, which dosen't mean much. Rest of his comments have been quite open and this is a sign of a troll? Though to be fair to him, it's not like he has anyone he knows from gundam who would be dedicated to counting 'giagtons upon gigatons' of energy or whatever. More to the point who cares? JY visual comparison is unreliable, also the fact that gundam don't have faster then light transport means the fight is lost that alone is more then enough to say this fight is over. At least we could talk about how they may engage on ground combat (which fair to say would be a lot better)

[Serafina]

Hey, keep it down, that guy might have never thought about the strategic situation before.


Either way, to elaborate on that:
Gundam would loose due to a single reason: They can't touch the enemies industry and population, why he can do so with ease.
Gundam has no faster-than-light travel (FTL), and is therefore unable to even try to destroy any shipyards, mines, cities and whatnot of the Empire (and nearly every other Sci-fi verse as well).
However, the Empire can just drop out of hyperspace close to a factory/mine/space station and blow it apart - any time they want to.

Even if the Gundams have a chance in a straight fight, it WON'T be a straight fight. The Empire could just steamroll them - their industrial base is orders of magnitudes larger, and can not be touched.


Oh, and - Death Star. Just blow up earth, problem nearly solved.