[WH40K] Ciaphas Cain, low self-esteem?

[Crom]

I picked up the Cain omnibus and it was great! It's probably my favorite WH40k book I've read so far, but after a while I began to suspect whether or not Cain was really as cowardly as he insisted he was. In fact, considering that most of his actions are consistently heroic, I'm starting to think that Cain is actually almost the hero people think he is, and seems to suffer from some kind survivor's guilt or low self esteem in that he continually seems to be trying to tear himself down.

Am I way off base here?

[Kuja]

I think it's a bit of both, myself. In the early stories he acts more like a genuine coward, looking for any way out of combat and actually going so far as to desert his troops in the face of the enemy. Later on however, he does seem to become more and more genuinely heroic, and his rants about how he "has no other choice" start to sound more like excuses for genuinely heroic behavior.

By the time the saga's over, and given the tone in which it's written, he seems to be angry at his younger self for his behavior, and just won't let go of it.

[Chris OFarrell]

Amberly herself makes comments to this effect in the later books 'notes' IIRC; that he is often too hard on himself and undertakes actions that are genuinly heroric, but plays them down.

[Zinegata]

It's always worth remembering that Cain wrote the memoirs many, many years after the events he described. When he says he was afraid, he might be saying it out of retrospect.

It's also worth noting that Cain, in spite of his insistence at wanting to save his own skin, consistently shows the ability to care for people - even faceless mooks and strangers. In his first book he dwells over killing a young PDF trooper who made the mistake of trying to stop their convoy, even though he was writing the memoirs decades after the fact. He expresses regret in later books at how he couldn't remember the faces of some of the men under his command, and that he was probably the only one still alive who knew they even existed.

There's thus good reason to believe that the memoirs are actually his way of assuaging his guilty conscience - albeit his only crime may be that he actually cared for people.

[OmegaChief]

This theory is further backed up by the fact I'm pretty sure Cain never meant for the memoirs to ever actually be read, so at the point he's writing them he really does seem to be doing it just so he can confess what he deems are his big mistakes if only to himself.

That's not to say he's fully heroic of course, he's deifnatly closer to the coward he describes himself as in the ealier stories, perhaps over time he grew so good a his heroic 'act' that the act become more real then he person who was hiding behind it?

[Night_stalker]

Maybe, or my theory is that like Zinegata said, we're getting all this from archives, long written after the events themselves actually took place. My guess is that Cain at first acted heroic only to impress the troopers, then slowily evolved into making that heroic persona his dominant personality, like with Bruce Wayne and Batman. They both are different personalities in the same body and over time, one could argue that each personality picks up traits from the other.

[Crom]

Cain, whatever his flaws, is no coward. He admits his fears in his memoirs but, and Amberley seems to confirm the events he describes, he goes head to head with some of the most terrifying creatures in his universe. He fenced with a Chaos Space Marine, he battled a daemon and he fought Necrons. He claims his reasons are selfish but that doesn't change the fact that he does things in spite of his fear.

Sure, he bitches and moans about his burdensome reputation, but after all those years the fact is he is worthy of that reputation.

[Archaic`]

Did they ever go into detail about exactly what was on with him "having the Emperor's own luck"? I recall them implying on a few occasions that he had "someone" watching out for him. We do know at least one sect ended up worshipping him as a prophet of the Emperor in later years.

[Zinegata]

Did they ever go into detail about exactly what was on with him "having the Emperor's own luck"? I recall them implying on a few occasions that he had "someone" watching out for him. We do know at least one sect ended up worshipping him as a prophet of the Emperor in later years.

His name was Jurgen, and both Amberley and Cain have both argued that if any had ever noticed him, Jurgen would be the real hero of this whole story .

[HSRTG]

There's no question he cared for his troops. During The Traitor's Hand he and Jurgen (who's armed with his melta) run across an enemy Leman Russ being closely assaulted by a squad of Valhallans. Cain could have had Jurgen just shoot the tank, destroying it and killing the Valhallans, which would have been standard Imperium procedure. He never even considered that option.

[Crom]

Did they ever go into detail about exactly what was on with him "having the Emperor's own luck"? I recall them implying on a few occasions that he had "someone" watching out for him. We do know at least one sect ended up worshipping him as a prophet of the Emperor in later years.

I've always thought he was GEoM's Jack Bauer, though he didn't know it.

But aside from potential supernatural backing, Cain is a master swordsman, a skilled veteran, loyal & competent comrades, and has such a strong instinct for danger (partly paranoia I'm sure) that I almost wonder if he's some kind of precognitive psyker (except his proximity to Jurgen seems to imply otherwise). It's not necessarily divine intervention that explains his success.

[OsirisLord]

I read Ciaphas as a character with a self-depricating point of view because he holds himself to the standards of his colleague Commissars. Despite the years spent in the Schola Progenium (basically a theological indoctrination center) he still maintains strong common sense and survival instincts, leading him to seek out such cowardly and heretical things like seeking cover and trying diplomacy. At least those would be cowardly tactics to the average Imperial Commissar (the yard stick Cain holds himself to, since he is one) who is a frothing mad religious zealot. Then you add the fact that all these actions of precieved cowardice do nothing but garner his reputation as an unwavering and unshakable hero of the Imperium.