40K and the Distinct Lack of the Feminine

[Stravo]

Over the weekend while painting and discussing some 40K fluff with my GF she makes a statement that makes me pause and think. Her statement was simple. When discussing the Primarchs and the general bratty attitude displayed in the book series and legends she asked me "Didn't they have mothers?"

Hmmmm. When one examines the creation of the Primarchs, the Emperor and the Astartes one begins to see a very distinct lack of anything feminine in the 40k verse especially with regard to the Emperor and his sons.

The Primarchs I don't believe ever experienced maternal love. They were bred in a vat and then catapulted to very nasty worlds to survive and lead. At no time in any of the fluff I've read have mothers been raised, noted or mentioned. I could be wrong mind you but it is not something that has been touched on in any of the novels either. All they know is paternal love and without that softening influence or at the very least rounding out of a person's character by experiencing a woman's love you have to wonder what that might do to a person. You know, it might make them see dear old dad as someone they need to eventually supplant because of the whole alpha male thing *coughHoruscough*

But its not just the Primarchs. Women seem to be absent on all levels of the fluff. Look at things like the Imperial Guard - although nowhere does it state that the military is one sex only I don't recall seeing any models, any fluff fiction pieces or any artwork that depictied women as fighting alongside men. This extends in the most part to the Xenos factions as well. I see no mention of female Tau Fire Warrios. Orks seem to live just fine with no women at all since they asexually reproduce. The only race that makes some use of women in their military units are the Eldar.

The Chaos Gods themselves are all basically male - I know Slaanesh is portrayed as androgynous but why couldn't she be just female?

This apparent removal of women on all levels of 40k can be a little disturbing if one takes it to mean that the creators feel that their audience of adolescent boys (or they themselves) don't want women in their universe but it flies in the face of gamesystems like D&D that have had women as integral parts of their fluff since the beginning. So what does it mean and how do you feel about this?

You could argue I'm wrong but pointing to Sisters of Battle as your sole counterpoint seems kind of weak no? Almost as good as Space Marines...but they're women? What does that say on another level, eh?

[Darmalus]

Plenty of female IG in the Cain novels. The Horse-faced lady that Cain doesn't like even goes on to be a general. There are all male, all female, and mixed regiments, so this might be more the models and art failing to accurately reflect the actual gender mix of the guard.

You could argue I'm wrong but pointing to Sisters of Battle as your sole counterpoint seems kind of weak no? Almost as good as Space Marines...but they're women? What does that say on another level, eh?

I think it says we are far more tolerant of making men ugly for the sake of power than women. The Sisters of Battle are universally depicted as attractive (from what I've seen) and they have elegant, sculpted armor. SM and IG tend to be ugly as a rule, and the only attractive Chaos units seem to be Slaanesh infiltrator/recruiter types.

[Feil]

Some of it is just the nature of the monster.... The uglier the society, the more women are relegated to the role of child-bearing chattel. And 40k is a very ugly society indeed.

[Doombringer]

In regard to the lack of female Fire Warriors, there are two examples so far;

Shas'la Ju from the novel Fire Warrior is a highly zealous female Tau fighting in Shas'la Kais' cadre.
Shas'O Shaserra (Commander Shadowsun) is a female Tau, who happens to be the Supreme Commander of the Third Sphere Expansion...

Nothing except aggregate mentions in the background seems to suggest that there is any segregation or rarity between male and female Tau. Most Fire Warriors have their helmets on anyway, and it's hard to tell if a Tau is male or female from outside their armor...

[Crom]

Some of it is just the nature of the monster.... The uglier the society, the more women are relegated to the role of child-bearing chattel. And 40k is a very ugly society indeed.

I think Feil touches on a major point here, the IoM is often portrayed as oppressive and corrupt, especially in areas where stories are set, gender-inequality seems only to reinforce those themes.

Women do feature prominently in the novels, like Amberley Vail the Inquisitor, but that seems to be more recent material. I think it came down to GW targeting pre-adolescent boys and the strangely pseudo-Catholic elements to their story (by that I mean the warrior monks, the rebellious favored son, violent conversions and crusades, etc), women naturally don't fit into those without some effort.

[Imperial Overlord]

Female representation in 40K is lacking. Having said that, it's not quite as dire as Stravo depicts. To me it seems it certainly started out that way, the result of aiming a wargaming minatures market at adolescent boys (as opposed to heroic fantasy which has different although related conventions), and gradually improved since then. There's plenty of female Imperial Guard and Inquisitor related fiction and artwork. Assassins are even more lethal than Space Marines and famously include females in their ranks. The only series to center on Arbites has a female lead.

[Azazal]

House Escher from Necromunda

House Escher is perhaps the most strikingly different of all the Houses of Necromunda. Unlike the other Houses which have reasonable balanced populations, that of the Escher is made up almost entirely of woman. The Escher have a reputation for arrogance and are said to look down upon and pity all males

[Boombaye]

As it were, Space Marines cannot be female. Suppose they're saving money on Imperial Guard. Extra models and such cost cash.

It's pretty hard to depict women as ugly, in any setting, though. Slaaneshi daemons are a cross between horrific and sexy.

There are plenty of females in the novelisations and fluff, less so in the games themselves.

I also agree to that whole Imperium of Man sexist pig thing.

[Ghost Rider]

For parts of the game the representation is low because it's a hassle really. Most of the players are somewhat apathetic to the situation as models concern.

As for fluff?

Space Marines are pretty much molded to be parts of the Emperor, and he likely never gave any inclination towards a female aspect. In fact he seems to strive towards a martial perfection that made him click male and not give a damn. The Imperial Guard novels do demonstrate a number of females in a variety of low to high end ranks. The Inquisition has a strong female presense and in fact notes this. Various other parts of the Imperium in fact demonstrate a equality of male and female.

As for the Xenos? The Tau would be the only race to show any, but given the nature of their forces I can see why none, given the whole mechanized suits and such. The Eldar(both light and dark) demonstrate a female core as powerful as the male.

For others? Chaos doesn't give a damn and only Slaanesh has shown the use of the sexes as a driving force for hedonism, amongst other things. Orks are just asexual drunken football fans. Necrons are techno undead. Tyranids are noted only one note of sexuality by queens being the highest in their society, but then again they are space horror bees.

It's for the most part not given as much because the fans they are catering to. The novels portray a better look into said societies and tend to give a better cross between the sexes.

[kouchpotato]

There are female Imperial Guard models. One of the Tanith soldiers, I don't recall her name but there is a model of her.

[DireApostasy]

There are female Imperial Guard models. One of the Tanith soldiers, I don't recall her name but there is a model of her.

Probably Tona Criid. She seems to be the most prominent female Ghost.

[Aaron]

There is one in The Last Chancers metal models as well, Warrior Woman IIRC.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

There is also a female Last Chancer model and a female Comissar model, but they're all rather obscure. GW is not very good about including women in their core troops kits, which sucks.

[Zor]

I see no mention of female Tau Fire Warriors.

There was Commander Shadowsun and her sister (who died after that Eye of Terror thing GW did a while back), not that Fire caste uniforms is really a flattering garment.



Zor

[Ritterin Sophia]

There was Commander Shadowsun and her sister (who died after that Eye of Terror thing GW did a while back), not that Fire caste uniforms is really a flattering garment.

Zor

As it should be. If you can't see their faces you honestly wouldn't be able to tell they're women.

Female Finnish Soldier

US Army

Another US Army

As you can see, throwing SAPI plates on their chests, an LBV, an ACH, amd some eye pro and you can't tell.

[Drone]

The pictures are rather deceptive. You can tell 95% of the time that it's a woman, from their size, the way they walk, the way they act, their hair(the fact that they have any) and a number of other things. This is coming from someone who has spent a decent portion of his adult life in and around the military, so maybe it's just easier for me.

That said, in Fire warrior gear or something like that, I'd completely agree that it's impossible based on looking at the outside of the suit unless that armor is built smaller.

[OmegaChief]

Not to mention I don't think it's clarief how sexual dimorphic the Tau are, as far as I know (And someone more in line with fluff plase correct me) the only difference is the structure of he nasal slit, being Y shaped for women otehr then that they could be as tall and strong as Tau men, this would definatly fit in with Tau psychology and dogma.

[Doombringer]

I think you're right, OmegaChief.

The only source we have other than the silent Index Xenos: Tau from WD262/263 detailing Tau anatomy is the OOP Black Library publication Xenology, which shows a dissection of a female Ethereal.

The female Ethereal distinctively lacked the Y-shaped nasal slit (since Ethereals have the diamond-shaped bone protrusion), but for all intents and purposes the anatomy was strikingly similar to that of a male's. She may have been a bit skinny, but it's unclear whether this is a female thing or simply because she's an Aun (Ethereal) and not a Shas (Warrior). They obviously retain female reproductive organs, but I don't think there was any mention of mammary glands of any sort... There may not be noticeable breasts under that armor, making ID from an outside source even more difficult!

And I totally forgot about Shadowsun's sister.

There's also the female Fire Warrior who gets tortured by the Imperium from Courage and Honour...

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I'm not sure I buy this notion that the Imperium is inherently misogynistic. The impression I've always gotten is, to paraphrase GySgt Hartmann, that the Imperium considers men and women equally worthless. Sex is a complete non-issue in 99% of the Imperium (the remaining 1% being the Adeptus Astartes and Adepta Sororitas; male and female respectively). The only things the Imperium as a whole cares about are warm bodies and the ability of those warm bodies to kill things. Male or female is completely irrelevant.

Others have mentioned female Guardsmen, Inquisitors, Assassins, and so on and so forth. Without even going into the fluff for a moment, I have quite the assortment of female models for my own armies. Obviously the bulk of them are male simply because, well, they're packs of plastic toy soldiers (does anyone complain that bags of green Army Men are all male?), but I have, off the top of my head, a female Commissar, a couple female Guardsmen (currently in an anti-tank squad, I think), a Sister Hospitaler in an Inquisitorial retinue, and of course a small legion of Battle Sisters.

The important thing to note is that all of those models are pewter; i.e., not mass produced in the kind of wide-appeal bulk that plastic kits are. In other words, they're all specialized models rather than generic, and this is important: As I pointed out above, would anyone here complain if they bought a bag of Army Men and found no women inside? The vast majority of plastic kits are all male (or ambiguous/irrelevant) for obvious reasons. When it comes to the smaller runs of pewter models, however, women are represented much more proportionately. In addition to the ones I listed above, there are Callidus Assassins, female Inquisitors, several female Inquisitorial acolytes, and so on, and that's just Imperial. Howling Banshees and plenty of other Eldar are obviously female, and for most of the other factions sex is ambiguous or irrelevant.

Again as others have pointed out, once you enter the realm of fluff the sexes are much more evenly represented. There are the specific named characters such as Vail, Criid, Sully (IIRC), Calpurnia (the lead character in her series, as Imperial Overlord notes), and plenty more. These characters are, respectively, an agent empowered by the Emperor himself to police the Imperium, a soldier and experienced NCO, a meteoric officer-turned-general, and a high-ranking law enforcement agent/judge. When it comes to the unnamed masses, there are female Guard regiments, "co-ed" ones as in the Cain books, Sisters of Silence, Sororitas, and on and on. I don't think the Imperium has a problem with women; as per my original argument, all the Imperium cares about is ability. The notion that women are chattel is flawed, because while technically true it fails to consider that in the Imperium, men are also chattel. Bloodiest regime imaginable and all that. Gender is utterly irrelevant beyond determining whom is compatible with whom for mass-producing yet more warm bodies.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

I think it says we are far more tolerant of making men ugly for the sake of power than women. The Sisters of Battle are universally depicted as attractive (from what I've seen) and they have elegant, sculpted armor. SM and IG tend to be ugly as a rule, and the only attractive Chaos units seem to be Slaanesh infiltrator/recruiter types.

Heh.

http://www.hordeling.co.uk/eBay/GamesWo ... _front.JPG

Note the Sister on the left with scarred, missing eye, and of course on the right, the Sisters Repentia. Not too attractive.

In fact, that's one of the things I like about 40k: the women don't "have" to be pretty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and are often portrayed on the same footing as the men: ugly, brutish, scarred, and militant.

[Zor]

In regards to the Imperium's position in regards to women, is not one of the big things about the Imperium is that, despite being a cruel despotic feudal mess of a nation, has a very large amount of internal variation inside it. So long as people venerate the immortal emperor, stay away from the heretical stuff and pay their tithe the guys on Terra don't care about local customs on planet 153,245. I am pretty sure that you would find areas in the Imperium full of sexist wife beaters that like there women barefoot and pregnant and zones were gender equality is a prominant local value.

Zor

[Ford Prefect]

Note the Sister on the left with scarred, missing eye, and of course on the right, the Sisters Repentia. Not too attractive.

Though there are a couple of pieces of art with yound and still pretty Sisters that manage to wear their brutal scars liek a fashion accessory. It's honestly kind of weird.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Cain novels and the Eisenhorn books, and other good 40k novels that are non-shit and have things like good plots and characterizations aside from shitty rargh-kill war crap, have an abundance of great and prominent female characters, some of whom have great and prominent breasts that lecherous hero commissars like to stare at - a happenstance that allows him to survive an assassination attempt, in fact! Man, Commissar Cain's group of Guardsmen has so much estrogen that they don't need wanky stupid shitty gimmicks (as seen in the rest of 40k) to kick mucho ass.

Hell even when he was stuck in a desert, gathering a bunch of ragtag postapocalyptic survivors to raid the wastelands all Mad Max-like, he had lots of hot chicks. Even a sexy AdMech Engineseer babe! Man, Ciaphas Cain! What a guy!

[Wing Commander MAD]

Isn't looking at the Primarchs, and by extension Space Marines, as human largely superfluous? Lack of feminine isn't really an issue when the concept of gender is meaningless. Really the only thing they have in common with humans is thier appearance (albeit greatly distorted), and that SM start as humans, though by the time they become full fledged SM they are definitely no longer human.

[Connor MacLeod]

Over the weekend while painting and discussing some 40K fluff with my GF she makes a statement that makes me pause and think. Her statement was simple. When discussing the Primarchs and the general bratty attitude displayed in the book series and legends she asked me "Didn't they have mothers?"

Hmmmm. When one examines the creation of the Primarchs, the Emperor and the Astartes one begins to see a very distinct lack of anything feminine in the 40k verse especially with regard to the Emperor and his sons.

The Primarchs I don't believe ever experienced maternal love. They were bred in a vat and then catapulted to very nasty worlds to survive and lead. At no time in any of the fluff I've read have mothers been raised, noted or mentioned. I could be wrong mind you but it is not something that has been touched on in any of the novels either. All they know is paternal love and without that softening influence or at the very least rounding out of a person's character by experiencing a woman's love you have to wonder what that might do to a person. You know, it might make them see dear old dad as someone they need to eventually supplant because of the whole alpha male thing *coughHoruscough*

Well, if you look at the Primarchs and Space MArines, they're all genetically engineered superbeings along the lines of a 300-esque Spartan SUPERFORCE. So the whole "all male" thing kinda fits in. The Horus Hersy novels also up to this point are nearly all Space MArine novels, so the "male-centric" aspect is going to show through (barring female Guardsmen, the Sisters of Silence, etc.)

I suppose one could say it rose out of the Unification Wars. Some of the few Terra-born Army regiments still in existence (The Chiliad from LEgion) were heavily along the "men fight, women don't" lines, and the techno-barbarian nature of that period would probably emphasize men being the fighters while women stayed home. Since the Space Marines and Primarchs basically originated from Terra, that may have played a role in why Space Marines are all male.

You could read more into the "all male" angle if you reach into much earlier material but I'm not going to go there beyond there than reiterate "look at 300" for an explanation.

But its not just the Primarchs. Women seem to be absent on all levels of the fluff. Look at things like the Imperial Guard - although nowhere does it state that the military is one sex only I don't recall seeing any models, any fluff fiction pieces or any artwork that depictied women as fighting alongside men. This extends in the most part to the Xenos factions as well. I see no mention of female Tau Fire Warrios. Orks seem to live just fine with no women at all since they asexually reproduce. The only race that makes some use of women in their military units are the Eldar.

Which "fluff?" Artwork? Artwork is propoganda that tends to show alot of equipment and troops horribly out of proportion, nevremind copycatting the models as if they were real life. And in some sources (CG 13th Black Crusade, some Guard Codexes, Inquisitor, Rogue Trader and Dark Hersy, etc.) I've seen female guardsmen, militia, etc depicted. It just isn't as common. But again the artwork is mean tot convey propoganda, and if you believed that, all guardsmen look like Cadians.

As others have pointed, the novels tend to be far far FAR more gender-neutral.

In the case of the Tau.. they're aliens. We dont know much about them. "male" and "female" to the tau would not neccesarily mean the same thing in the way humans do. Again we're ascribing a human perspective to something that may or may not apply. (Hell the same thign applies to the Eldar. They look human and female, to an extent, but that doesn't really tell us anything does it? They aren't human)

The Chaos Gods themselves are all basically male - I know Slaanesh is portrayed as androgynous but why couldn't she be just female?

Chaos gods (and daemons in general) are "male" in the sense that you could call a ship or a vehicle "he" or "she". There is no true gender, you're just ascribing ideas to an inanimate object (or in the case of the warp, a gestalt collection of thoughts and emotions given tangibility or form at times.) Gender is functionally meaningless to them without the mortal perspective giving it context.

This apparent removal of women on all levels of 40k can be a little disturbing if one takes it to mean that the creators feel that their audience of adolescent boys (or they themselves) don't want women in their universe but it flies in the face of gamesystems like D&D that have had women as integral parts of their fluff since the beginning. So what does it mean and how do you feel about this?

You could argue I'm wrong but pointing to Sisters of Battle as your sole counterpoint seems kind of weak no? Almost as good as Space Marines...but they're women? What does that say on another level, eh?

It's probably more along the lines of the "Girls don't like guns and tanks and war" stereotype coming into play rather than anything more nefarious. Let's face it. There's always been a certain amount of sexism and discrimination (hell there *still* is) when it comes to any kind of merchandise ("girl" vs "boy" in toys, video games, etc.) and 40K is going to be no different. That there are going to be elements of that (plus with what I said about Space Marines above) thrown in with a ton of grimdark and then ya get 40K.

As for citing D&D as a counterargument..... um.. have you ever seen the artwork for some of the women in D&D? That's harldy what I'd call a compelling argument for a more "gender neutral" game, especially early on. (at least later on women got the ability to wear full body armor that was not neccesarily form fitting. )