How would Federation personal did throw movie Pradtors

[JasonB]

What if Praetor kidnapped 7 Federation office that basic did similar jobs to what humans in Movie Praetors did. Will for one think kidnapped sector 31 guys armed with TR-116 rifle, Starfleet medical doctor like one Praetors, Federation rebel fighting civil war , Federation citizen death row and Federation citizen mercenary. Phaser lot more deadly anything any guy movie Praetor were carry so single shot beam weapon enough. They much great intelligence gathering able TR-116 and tircorder could hurt them much. I say predators better keep cloaking device on an pray they can not pick them up. Which unlikely Praetor cloaking device did not even work against what supposed to work against because police able use pick up dust.

[Simon_Jester]

Are we more worried here about praetors, or "pradtors," which so far as I know do not exist in any human language?

[Guardsman Bass]

I think he's talking about the movie Predators, with the scenario being "What if 7 Federation officers were dumped on to that world with their equipment, including tricorders and phasers?"

It reads like english isn't his first language.

[Elheru Aran]

English please?

Assuming you're talking about Predators-- the guys with the jaw issues, you know-- then the Federation is going to have trouble given that the plasma cannons are quite powerful compared to phasers. However, a tricorder should be able to detect them given that infrared can pick them up, and it would be a simple enough matter to go "Computer, are there anomalous signatures aboard the ship? Yes? Okay, close all bulkheads around that signature and evacuate to space."

Not that they'd do that, but it's a thought...

[Sarevok]

They should do quite well barring running into character shielded personnel like Kirk who would probably win a fist fight if his shirt gets torn !

Tricorders being able to detect cloaks is not given. There is also the fact that redshirts are not competent enough to use the tricorder in combat. How many times do you see trek characters use their advanced tricorders in a firefight where knowing the enemies position could save lives ? They treat tricorders as a survey/medical information tool unlike how the fully integrated motion tracker works in a Colonial Marines squad.

[Simon_Jester]

Nah, I think he means praetors.

The answer depends heavily on the period, which tells us just how large a fraction of Rome's resources the praetor might have at his disposal. Were you thinking more in terms of the early Republic, Jason? The late Republic? The Civil War? The Empire?

[HMS Sophia]

Nah, I think he means praetors.

The answer depends heavily on the period, which tells us just how large a fraction of Rome's resources the praetor might have at his disposal. Were you thinking more in terms of the early Republic, Jason? The late Republic? The Civil War? The Empire?

How about we use two, the late republic and the Empire, to get a good broad response...

[PREDATOR490]

Bunch of folk snatched up from various sectors of the Federation and dumped on the planet in Predators.

All I see for weapons is TR-116 rifle... - Ok, so they have one weapon that fires bullets. The capabilities of that rifle are largely unknown and the transporter aspect was an after-market addition. NOT part of the original design. Your basically dealing with rifle otherwise.
Predators vs. Bullets has been done so if they get hit they will get hurt depending on how powerful that rifle actually is.

Additionally, the transporter aspect requires headgear to function as a targeting system. It could look through walls across a station but in a jungle planet the only thing in the way is trees against targets that are invisible.

The others apparantly get armed with phasers - Which is entirely vague.
In general, phasers dialed up to higher settings would hurt a Predator but the issue still remains trying to hit them. The refire rate on them can be bad and accuracy equally so.

Tricorders - Probably will detect Predators but then folks are still firing semi-blind at an invisible target. Unless they can fuck with the Predator's cloak via technobabble they have to look at the Tricorder then point and shoot in the direction it says. I can easily see the entire group getting wiped by a Predator as they fumble around pressing buttons on their tricorder.

The tricorders might let them avoid the traps that were laid and set up a fortified ambush zone but it would only be a matter of time before the Feds get slaughtered. They cant get offworld, the Predators will just keep coming and the Feds will eventually run out of energy for their toys.

Starfleet Medical Doctor - "We just wounded one, my Federation code requires me to offer assistance even to the enemy" *Gets skewered by a wounded Predator*
Federation Rebel - Who the hell is this, Maquis ?
Federation Death Row - Federation dont have Death Row inmates and I dont think they are retarded enough to give them phasers.
Federation Citizen Merc - Who the fuck is this... ?
Section 31 - Still largely unknown organisation that likes to play spies. There is little indication what training they get and at best they are morally dubious. Big deal.
Person 6 - ?
Person 7 - ?

Starfleet combat training is weak at best and their experience equally so. Predators are going to rapidly slaughter these folks quickly for being ruthless killers while the Feds are busy spouting technobabble or trying to initiate 'First Contact'.

[Simon_Jester]

Nah, I think he means praetors.

The answer depends heavily on the period, which tells us just how large a fraction of Rome's resources the praetor might have at his disposal. Were you thinking more in terms of the early Republic, Jason? The late Republic? The Civil War? The Empire?

How about we use two, the late republic and the Empire, to get a good broad response...

Fair enough. Then the question is, what is the legal situation? The praetor's job description mostly involves management of high-level tasks within a jurisdiction assigned to them by the Senate.

Does this occur in an authentically Roman environment, or are they being kidnapped by the pseudo-Romans from that Star Trek original series episode?

[HMS Sophia]

If their jurisdiction covered the area the feds were dropped in, could they not order the troops in? or rather, ask a general very nicely
What I mean is, do they not control the movement of troops within their jurisdiction?

I think authentic rather than fake romans...

[Simon_Jester]

They could probably order in troops. So, how long would our Federation friends last against several thousand angry Romans with sharp pointy things?

Are big honking Roman shields as good as packing crates?

[HMS Sophia]

They could probably order in troops. So, how long would our Federation friends last against several thousand angry Romans with sharp pointy things?

Are big honking Roman shields as good as packing crates?

I would believe that big honking shields would stop a phaser... or at least reduce it too a wounding shot.
And also, against seven feds? I don't need thousands... I need a few hundred cavalry

Also, ballistae and scorpions... Roman artillery=better than fed ground equipment

[Sarevok]

I don't think he meant "Praetors" seeing there is no such thing as "movie praetors".

[Wing Commander MAD]

They should do quite well barring running into character shielded personnel like Kirk who would probably win a fist fight if his shirt gets torn !

Tricorders being able to detect cloaks is not given. There is also the fact that redshirts are not competent enough to use the tricorder in combat. How many times do you see trek characters use their advanced tricorders in a firefight where knowing the enemies position could save lives ? They treat tricorders as a survey/medical information tool unlike how the fully integrated motion tracker works in a Colonial Marines squad.

I can think of one, in the TOS episode Arena Spock used his tricorder to try and locate an attacking enemy mortar team. Then again he almost got them killed as a result. Though to be fair, this was the TOS era where there seemed to be in general more competence in groups and individuals and less reliability on technobable solutions. If the same was done in TNG, I fully expect it to work without a hitch because the enemy likely being too dumb to use thier tricorder's signals to get a fix on their position.

[Lonestar]

I don't think he meant "Praetors" seeing there is no such thing as "movie praetors".

Sure there is. Ever seen Gladiator?

[Admiral Drason]

I don't think he meant "Praetors" seeing there is no such thing as "movie praetors".

Maybe he was talking about Romulan Praetors? Besides Skippy the clone I don't remember us ever actually seeing a Romulan Praetor.

[Gandalf]

I don't think he meant "Praetors" seeing there is no such thing as "movie praetors".

Maybe he was talking about Romulan Praetors? Besides Skippy the clone I don't remember us ever actually seeing a Romulan Praetor.

Nemesis opens with Praetor Hiren being killed, so there's at least one movie Praetor.

In the series we see Praetor Neral. Why they couldn't keep him on for the movie eludes me.

[JasonB]

Bunch of folk snatched up from various sectors of the Federation and dumped on the planet in Predators.

All I see for weapons is TR-116 rifle... - Ok, so they have one weapon that fires bullets. The capabilities of that rifle are largely unknown and the transporter aspect was an after-market addition. NOT part of the original design. Your basically dealing with rifle otherwise.
Predators vs. Bullets has been done so if they get hit they will get hurt depending on how powerful that rifle actually is.

Additionally, the transporter aspect requires headgear to function as a targeting system. It could look through walls across a station but in a jungle planet the only thing in the way is trees against targets that are invisible.

The others apparantly get armed with phasers - Which is entirely vague.
In general, phasers dialed up to higher settings would hurt a Predator but the issue still remains trying to hit them. The refire rate on them can be bad and accuracy equally so.

Tricorders - Probably will detect Predators but then folks are still firing semi-blind at an invisible target. Unless they can fuck with the Predator's cloak via technobabble they have to look at the Tricorder then point and shoot in the direction it says. I can easily see the entire group getting wiped by a Predator as they fumble around pressing buttons on their tricorder.

The tricorders might let them avoid the traps that were laid and set up a fortified ambush zone but it would only be a matter of time before the Feds get slaughtered. They cant get offworld, the Predators will just keep coming and the Feds will eventually run out of energy for their toys.

Starfleet Medical Doctor - "We just wounded one, my Federation code requires me to offer assistance even to the enemy" *Gets skewered by a wounded Predator*
Federation Rebel - Who the hell is this, Maquis ?
Federation Death Row - Federation dont have Death Row inmates and I dont think they are retarded enough to give them phasers.
Federation Citizen Merc - Who the fuck is this... ?
Section 31 - Still largely unknown organisation that likes to play spies. There is little indication what training they get and at best they are morally dubious. Big deal.
Person 6 - ?
Person 7 - ?

Starfleet combat training is weak at best and their experience equally so. Predators are going to rapidly slaughter these folks quickly for being ruthless killers while the Feds are busy spouting technobabble or trying to initiate 'First Contact'.

Section 31 does take out enemy danger federation sounds like carry assassination mission as will I also close to guy movie Predators as possible.
6 guy one colonies fall part that was basic commit massive murder on other people. May form planet Turkana IV.
7. UFP soldier
I am trying put People federation fit the people that were in movie Praetors as close possible. We saw UFP tircorder during Star Trek TNG chase be able to basic creative hologram film of picture alien deliver message.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbHGYlB7208
If Federation personal have tircorder basic show red glow were the Praetor is location it make lot easily to take. They must likely use the must minimal amount power needed to kill a Praetor. Then they would us the power that Praetor generation to power up their toys. For that matter if Praetor has commutation technology on it they will be able to us it sends distress out call nearest UFP starship. Also after clean up Praetors they might able us tircorder to find starship and get off the planet that way.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Predators send their swarms of attack dogs to eat the Redshirts. Lacking a goddamn gatling gun, Old Painless, the Redshirts die? Then they got plenty of time to bleed.

[Simon_Jester]

Hmm. Seven Federation dudes against a Romulan praetor... that's a lot of Romulans following his orders. They're all dead.

[Whiskey144]

Generally, I have some difficulty understanding JasonB, but I can usually figure it out based on context and the somewhat consistant use of some terms.

That said all posts in this thread made by JasonB seem to be nigh-upon unintelligible. The biggest thing that bugs me is the whole "Praetors" instead of the correct Predators.

Moving to the actual topic, I've not seen the newest Predator movie (curses!), but I'd wager that all of the Feddies will buy the farm in relatively short order. Between what little I've heard/read/seen about the local wildlife of the planet in the new movie, and the stuff I've seen about the Predators in previous Predator movies and the AvP flicks, it's pretty much going to suck to be part of the UFP here.

Though I second the fact that we have never seen a Federation prison, or a death row inmate. While I doubt that the UFP wouldn't have prisons, I'm also doubtful that they'd have death row.

I am trying put People federation fit the people that were in movie Praetors as close possible. We saw UFP tircorder during Star Trek TNG chase be able to basic creative hologram film of picture alien deliver message.

Except of course, that the Predators tend to see very heavily in the infrared, and a hologram is highly unlikely to produce the amount of heat a regular human being would. It's also debatable as to whether the Feddies could even understand the Predators, and vice versa.

If Federation personal have tircorder basic show red glow were the Praetor is location it make lot easily to take. They must likely use the must minimal amount power needed to kill a Praetor. Then they would us the power that Praetor generation to power up their toys. For that matter if Praetor has commutation technology on it they will be able to us it sends distress out call nearest UFP starship. Also after clean up Praetors they might able us tircorder to find starship and get off the planet that way.

TBH, we simply don't know how well the Predator cloak would conceal the user from a tricorder. I'd say it's a safe bet that it would provide some protection, but beyond that, I have no idea.

WRT Feddies killing a Predator, get real JasonB. The Feds are unlikely to kill the Predator, if only because they'll all be arguing over what to do (contact vs kill).

WRT Feddies using Predator power tech to "power up their toys", also get real. It's unlikely they'll be able to adapt a totally alien technology that works like nothing ever seen on ST to operate their gear.

WRT Feddies using Predator communication tech, also get real. Once again, it's unlikely they'll even be able to read Predator writing, let alone communicate using a device which is controlled with said script.

AFAIK, tricorders have never shown interplanetary, let alone interstellar, detection capability. Which would be required to find a starship.

[Stofsk]

I am trying put People federation fit the people that were in movie Praetors as close possible. We saw UFP tircorder during Star Trek TNG chase be able to basic creative hologram film of picture alien deliver message.

Except of course, that the Predators tend to see very heavily in the infrared, and a hologram is highly unlikely to produce the amount of heat a regular human being would. It's also debatable as to whether the Feddies could even understand the Predators, and vice versa.

If they have tricorders, then they can at least attempt to understand the predators as tricorders have the universal translator built in. And predators are capable of speech, as we saw in the first film.

TBH, we simply don't know how well the Predator cloak would conceal the user from a tricorder. I'd say it's a safe bet that it would provide some protection, but beyond that, I have no idea.

This is pretty much the biggest question here, whether the Predator cloak can hide them from what a typical Starfleet Away Team would have equipped. I don't know. We see Spock use his tricorder in the tunnels of Janus IV when tracking down the Horta, so it has motion detection capability. The Predator cloak is a lot like the Jem'Hadar concealment ability. It is possible Starfleet may have developed means with which to detect them while shrouded, and that could be a factor in whether or not they're equipped with said means. On the other hand, I don't recall that in DS9 (about the only thing I do recall is how in 'Rocks and Shoals' one of the minor characters told Sisko she was detecting Jem'Hadar on the high ground they were approaching, but those Jem'Hadar weren't shrouded as they were suffering from white withdrawal).

WRT Feddies killing a Predator, get real JasonB. The Feds are unlikely to kill the Predator, if only because they'll all be arguing over what to do (contact vs kill).

lol like the time when Kirk and Spock were aiming to kill the Horta, and the former relented when it appeared that the Horta wanted to communicate? Spock was a pacifist and he even urged Kirk to kill it. Then there was the 'Galileo 7' wherein all the human characters wanted to react violently to one of their number being killed by the hostile natives.

Anyway I think this all depends on who is part of the Starfleet team. The Predator's biggest advantage is he can cloak and stalk them, picking them off one by one. That said, if they have tricorders and those can pierce the cloak then I would put this one on the Starfleet's advantage. If you have a Betazoid or a Vulcan in the team they may even be able to telepathically sense the predator or even literally hear it in the case of the Vulcan (who could probably do both). The biggest problem Arnie's team had was how they couldn't see the creature in order to shoot it. By the time he could see him, Arnie no longer had a gun.

[Whiskey144]

If they have tricorders, then they can at least attempt to understand the predators as tricorders have the universal translator built in. And predators are capable of speech, as we saw in the first film.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here; are you talking about the Predator using Predator-language, or the Predator using a human language?

If the former, then I've no idea how they'd even begin to parse it (how do UT's work again?), while for the former it provides no clue as to whether the Feddies will understand what the Predator says, as Predator grasp of human language seems to be lacking.

This is pretty much the biggest question here, whether the Predator cloak can hide them from what a typical Starfleet Away Team would have equipped. I don't know. We see Spock use his tricorder in the tunnels of Janus IV when tracking down the Horta, so it has motion detection capability. The Predator cloak is a lot like the Jem'Hadar concealment ability. It is possible Starfleet may have developed means with which to detect them while shrouded, and that could be a factor in whether or not they're equipped with said means. On the other hand, I don't recall that in DS9 (about the only thing I do recall is how in 'Rocks and Shoals' one of the minor characters told Sisko she was detecting Jem'Hadar on the high ground they were approaching, but those Jem'Hadar weren't shrouded as they were suffering from white withdrawal).

My guess is that the Predator would be functionally invisible. The optical cloak system will either require the Feds to use the tricorder to target (which would be difficult considering they have to juggle a phaser and tricorder, and try to fire at where the tricorder says the target is at), or will be completely useless/effective.

lol like the time when Kirk and Spock were aiming to kill the Horta, and the former relented when it appeared that the Horta wanted to communicate? Spock was a pacifist and he even urged Kirk to kill it. Then there was the 'Galileo 7' wherein all the human characters wanted to react violently to one of their number being killed by the hostile natives.

Anyway I think this all depends on who is part of the Starfleet team. The Predator's biggest advantage is he can cloak and stalk them, picking them off one by one. That said, if they have tricorders and those can pierce the cloak then I would put this one on the Starfleet's advantage. If you have a Betazoid or a Vulcan in the team they may even be able to telepathically sense the predator or even literally hear it in the case of the Vulcan (who could probably do both). The biggest problem Arnie's team had was how they couldn't see the creature in order to shoot it. By the time he could see him, Arnie no longer had a gun.

In the first Predator movie though, there was a dude who figured out how to see the Predator cloak by the slight optical distortion it made.

He died pretty soon after that though.

WRT the team composition, as per the OP and supplementary posts (and as far as I can discern through JasonB's brain-aneurysm-causing writing), there's a doctor, an S31 operative, a 'rebel' (Maquis?), a death-row inmate (???), an SF citizen merc (???), a survivor from a Turkana-IV-like-world, and a UFP 'soldier' (security officer?).

Granted, that's pretty vague, but from what it looks like, there's no telepaths in the mix. OTOH, the vagueness means that there very well could be telepaths in there.

WRT telepaths, it brings up the interesting (albeit sadly unsolvable) question of whether Predators would be difficult to 'mind-read'. Perhaps the Predators are similar to the Ferengi, or otherwise incapable of being read by telepaths? On the flipside, Predators may be very 'loud' thought-sources to a telepath, thus making it painful for a telepath to be around them.

Food for thought, no?

[Stofsk]

If they have tricorders, then they can at least attempt to understand the predators as tricorders have the universal translator built in. And predators are capable of speech, as we saw in the first film.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here; are you talking about the Predator using Predator-language, or the Predator using a human language?

If the former, then I've no idea how they'd even begin to parse it (how do UT's work again?),

Magic.

My guess is that the Predator would be functionally invisible. The optical cloak system will either require the Feds to use the tricorder to target (which would be difficult considering they have to juggle a phaser and tricorder, and try to fire at where the tricorder says the target is at), or will be completely useless/effective.

One guy can be reading the tricorder and telling the other six where to shoot.

In the first Predator movie though, there was a dude who figured out how to see the Predator cloak by the slight optical distortion it made.

He died pretty soon after that though.

WRT the team composition, as per the OP and supplementary posts (and as far as I can discern through JasonB's brain-aneurysm-causing writing), there's a doctor, an S31 operative, a 'rebel' (Maquis?), a death-row inmate (???), an SF citizen merc (???), a survivor from a Turkana-IV-like-world, and a UFP 'soldier' (security officer?).

The doctor might be the one whose sole duty will be to have his eyes glued to the tricorder hoping it provides some sign of the predator's presence. Even if it can't detect it through its cloak, it's possible that motion detection might still work, or other means (such as environmental disturbances allowing one to guestimate 'something' is in 'that' direction etc)

All the others don't tell us much, except that they'd be more than likely proficient in the use of a phaser. Even if you can't see where the predator is, you could set your phasers to wide beam and heavy stun and fire in the general direction and hope for a hit. Arnie's team tried doing that and they at least shot the predator (as well as devastate the local jungle). Of course that depends on how reliable the stun setting is. Some aliens are highly resilient to its effects, like the Jem'hadar, which can only be put down by a beam on lethal settings.

Granted, that's pretty vague, but from what it looks like, there's no telepaths in the mix. OTOH, the vagueness means that there very well could be telepaths in there.

We've seen a vulcan as a science officer and as a doctor, we've seen one as head of security and we've seen one as a member of the maquis (granted both were done by the same guy, Tuvok, but we also saw a female vulcan maquis member in the DS9 episode), so it is possible.

WRT telepaths, it brings up the interesting (albeit sadly unsolvable) question of whether Predators would be difficult to 'mind-read'. Perhaps the Predators are similar to the Ferengi, or otherwise incapable of being read by telepaths? On the flipside, Predators may be very 'loud' thought-sources to a telepath, thus making it painful for a telepath to be around them.

Food for thought, no?

Yeah, we just don't know. It could work, it may not. A Vulcan though has hypersensitive ears, so he could still 'hear' the Predator if it makes perceptible noises. But that's an even longer shot.

[Sarevok]

Wow wow wait. Hold on there Stofsk. Did you just claim Betazeds could shoot with their eyes closed ? And Vulcans have accurate bat like like sonar hearing ?