'Parting of the Ways' Dalek fleet vs. the Empire

[ThePerson5]

The small, 200 ship Dalek fleet from Parting of the Ways is transported into the Star Wars universe, around the time of a New Hope, and go about exterminating everything as usual. They are not allowed to simply use their time powers to retcon the age out of existence, but they are allowed use of their temporal weaponry. Can the Empire prevail or will they be EXTERMINATED?

[Srelex]

Do we even have any reliable stats on the Dalek saucers besides vague outliners? We know they can fuck up planets to a degree quickly, but no idea if that can be translated to ship firepower. One way or the other, there's probably just too few Dalek ships to get rid of the Empire in good time, to say nothing of minor powers like the Chiss and so on.

[ThePerson5]

Bombs that can shatter planets, which are also small enough to fit inside the chest of a human- sized android. There's this:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=116353

They can also very likely tank supernovas and the like with their shields.

[ChosenOne54]

There's literally nothing preventing the Daleks from transmatting on board the Empire's ships en masse and raping them from the inside. The fleet in POTW had about half a million Daleks inside of the ships. The ships themselves had weapons that could melt entire continents in seconds, and were expected to actually destroy the Doctor's TARDIS.

And then again, who says the Daleks will simply rush and and start blowing things up? The whole idea of Parting of the Ways was the Daleks staying in the background, out of sight, secretly manipulating humanity for hundreds of years while re-building their strength.

Just my two cents anyway.

[Srelex]

There's literally nothing preventing the Daleks from transmatting on board the Empire's ships en masse and raping them from the inside. The fleet in POTW had about half a million Daleks inside of the ships. The ships themselves had weapons that could melt entire continents in seconds, and were expected to actually destroy the Doctor's TARDIS.

And then again, who says the Daleks will simply rush and and start blowing things up? The whole idea of Parting of the Ways was the Daleks staying in the background, out of sight, secretly manipulating humanity for hundreds of years while re-building their strength.

Just my two cents anyway.

If the Daleks could use transmat like that, why didn't they just beam a load of themselves right where the Doctor was on the station and zap him there? Other than that, what do the saucers need for power? What's their FTL range? Do they need to resupply munitions? Etc.

Now, to be fair, the Daleks are liable to be able to gain intelligence quickly by finding someone and sucking the info from their heads like they did with that Torchwood guy in Doomsday, but if they do try to pull what they did with the Games Station, just how exactly they go about it is another question altogether.

[Stark]

The S1 fleet wasn't very big in SW terms and certainly wasn't Time War techbase. There really aren't any datapoints on whether SW small arms will work, but even sustained SPACE G36 fire can penetrate their shielding, and the Daleks aren't very agile or particualrly tactically flexible.

Every time people repeat 'melt entire continents in seconds' I laugh out loud.

[Batman]

Space G36s can apparently hit Dalek eye stalks despite having zero effect anywhere else. Dalek shielding as shown earlier in the episode didn't seem to show any weakness in that area so I wonder how that is supposed to work.
On the other hand, the 'Weakest Link' robot managed to waste three Daleks in a matter of seconds so it's not like this particular iteration of the Daleks at least is all that formidable.
As for the melting of continents-BDZ. Which is something that a triplet of ISDs can accomplish in a matter of hours. Yet the 'POTW' Daleks apparently had to throw an entire fleet at Earth to achieve that (if as much, we never got any actual visuals of Earth after the attack).
Do we know if and if so how far the Dalek fleet had moved from detection to the '32 minutes before they're here' statement?

[Srelex]

The 'Weakest Link' robot was firing what was basically a teleport ray IIRC--not necessarily lethal.

And if we take the episode at face value, a few swooping Dalek saucers were apparently enough to distort continents somehow in seconds. Beyond that, we don't really see or get much.

[Stark]

Space G36s can apparently hit Dalek eye stalks despite having zero effect anywhere else. Dalek shielding as shown earlier in the episode didn't seem to show any weakness in that area so I wonder how that is supposed to work.
On the other hand, the 'Weakest Link' robot managed to waste three Daleks in a matter of seconds so it's not like this particular iteration of the Daleks at least is all that formidable.
As for the melting of continents-BDZ. Which is something that a triplet of ISDs can accomplish in a matter of hours. Yet the 'POTW' Daleks apparently had to throw an entire fleet at Earth to achieve that (if as much, we never got any actual visuals of Earth after the attack).
Do we know if and if so how far the Dalek fleet had moved from detection to the '32 minutes before they're here' statement?

The shield probably just can't handle the full evaporation of x number of bullets in a small volume, and even a bit of molten bullet striking the eyestalk is apparently enough to damage it. It didn't visibly damage it, after all, and drops of molten metal hitting the armour obviously don't do shit. I imagine you could overwhelm the shield in any area of the Dalek the same way, but there'd be no effect since there's no super-vulnerable thing there to damage.

This means there are plenty of SW weapons (non standard, but still) that can probably do it in much smaller numbers, even if their other weapons are deflected by shields.

[Ugolino]

Mind you, it's strange that teleport rays haven't been weaponized in other sources. All you'd have to do is change the exit coordinates to somewhere nasty or just out of the way.

[Stark]

In the 51st century, such transmats are fixed instruments connected to an array of unknown size. Quite likely it just isn't practical as a weapon, and actual 51st century weapons kill Daleks fine.

[Shroom Man 777]

Didn't they use weirdo exotic bastic bullets for their Space G-36s?

[ChosenOne54]

If the Daleks could use transmat like that, why didn't they just beam a load of themselves right where the Doctor was on the station and zap him there? Other than that, what do the saucers need for power? What's their FTL range? Do they need to resupply munitions? Etc.

Because Jack Harkness specifically set up a force field, forcing he Daleks to physically invade. In Bad Wolf, a transmat beam manages to reach the Doctor, Jack, and Rose, from inside of the TARDIS, presumably when it was inside the Time Vortex. It should be able to transmat Daleks or a big bomb onto another ship.

...but even sustained SPACE G36 fire can penetrate their shielding...

They were loaded with bastic bullets from the year 100,000 (something around that time), which were specifically designed to penetrate Dalek casings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbjmckc3bP0#t=23s

This is the effect bastic bullets had in the old series, but Dalek technology apparantly advanced so far as to make them almost useless.

As for the melting of continents-BDZ. Which is something that a triplet of ISDs can accomplish in a matter of hours.

Which is something the Dalek saucers did in a matter of seconds? You don't see many ships descending either way; I remember maybe five.

[NecronLord]

Do we even have any reliable stats on the Dalek saucers besides vague outliners? We know they can fuck up planets to a degree quickly, but no idea if that can be translated to ship firepower. One way or the other, there's probably just too few Dalek ships to get rid of the Empire in good time, to say nothing of minor powers like the Chiss and so on.

We have a minimum FTL speed, and we know they can travel in time. We know that the average saucer in this fleet contains a couple thousand daleks, and the command ship, potentially millions (visual dictionary).

[NecronLord]

If the Daleks could use transmat like that, why didn't they just beam a load of themselves right where the Doctor was on the station and zap him there? Other than that, what do the saucers need for power? What's their FTL range? Do they need to resupply munitions? Etc.

The first thing the Doctor did on landing on the Games Station was order them to "turn everything up, full bandwidth" and activate a shield to stop them beaming aboard.

As for power, the Imperial Command Ship's six 'globes' on the underside are meant to be rectors, if the Doctor Who Visual Dictionary is to be believed. Their FTL range is probably vast, given that they could compete with the Time Lords. The actual energy source is unknown, but probably a very long useful life. The Doctor states that a much smaller Oblivion Continuum that powered a dalek-made robot in Victory of the Daleks was apparently a 'captured wormhole that can supply perpetual power.'

Given that the command ship managed to build two hundred smaller ships, I'd say they've probably got a working manufacturing base to sustain them in that fleet too.

As for the melting of continents-BDZ. Which is something that a triplet of ISDs can accomplish in a matter of hours. Yet the 'POTW' Daleks apparently had to throw an entire fleet at Earth to achieve that

The Galactic Empire regularly employs an entire fleet in BDZ operations, because it goes quicker.

Do we know if and if so how far the Dalek fleet had moved from detection to the '32 minutes before they're here' statement?

They had to be outside Neptune's orbit for it to really count as 'edge of the solar system' in which case they would have been moving faster than light.

[Stark]

...but even sustained SPACE G36 fire can penetrate their shielding...

They were loaded with bastic bullets from the year 100,000 (something around that time), which were specifically designed to penetrate Dalek casings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbjmckc3bP0#t=23s

This is the effect bastic bullets had in the old series, but Dalek technology apparantly advanced so far as to make them almost useless.

You know Jack was lying, right? He knew everyone was going to die, he was just buying time and getting volunteers. It's a good thing for the Daleks the Game Station crew were so poorly armed. How bullets designed to 'penetrate Dalek casings' helps them penetrate shields on Daleks significantly more advanced is beyond me, but I see you're one of these dialog literacy guys. I bet all TV stations have loads of bullets designed in a different time period to fight a specific enemy that doesn't exist.

[NecronLord]

You know Jack was lying, right? He knew everyone was going to die, he was just buying time and getting volunteers. It's a good thing for the Daleks the Game Station crew were so poorly armed. How bullets designed to 'penetrate Dalek casings' helps them penetrate shields on Daleks significantly more advanced is beyond me, but I see you're one of these dialog literacy guys. I bet all TV stations have loads of bullets designed in a different time period to fight a specific enemy that doesn't exist.

Well, it's a reasonable enough suggestion that Capn' Jack only knew about the old-series daleks and had never seen a Time War one before. In that respect his bullets spiel might be what he actually believed.

[evilsoup]

Concentrated fire penetrates the Dalek shield. Also, we don't know that the Daleks actually deformed the continents; all we know is that the display of a computer showed the outlines of the continents deforming, plus an untrained Big Brother contestant commenting that 'Oh god, Australia, it's gone!' This could be explained by (for example) ground-based sensors being overwhelmed by Dalek weapons; and that is the most logical explanation as the Daleks wanted to 'crush and pulp and purify' human material to create more Daleks - not a purpose that would be well served by the kinds of energies needed to denature continents.

[Ugolino]

On the other hand, these are Daleks. They're just the kind of creature that would get overexcited and accidentally kill everyone, they have other human planets to harvest per the Doctor's own comment, and wouldn't the display just show the continents vanishing if the sensors were destroyed?

[ChosenOne54]

You know Jack was lying, right? He knew everyone was going to die, he was just buying time and getting volunteers. It's a good thing for the Daleks the Game Station crew were so poorly armed. How bullets designed to 'penetrate Dalek casings' helps them penetrate shields on Daleks significantly more advanced is beyond me, but I see you're one of these dialog literacy guys. I bet all TV stations have loads of bullets designed in a different time period to fight a specific enemy that doesn't exist.

Yes, I am aware that Jack was lying, and no, I don't really see how it is relevant to my comment. I was arguing your claim that the weapons were simply 'space g36s,' which they are clearly not. I wasn't talking about shield strength, though I'd assume that it got through simply because there were so many concentrated in one place. I also posted a video demonstrating the effect bastic bullets normally have on a Dalek. Unless the bullets in the Game Station were completely different types of bastic bullets, then it means Time War-era Daleks have advanced so as to be almost immune to them.

[ChosenOne54]

...wouldn't the display just show the continents vanishing if the sensors were destroyed?

I'd assume the display would flicker out, or the entire image would get distorted, the whole thing would go static, or something along those lines. I would not expect it to accurately display the continent shapes stretching and distorting if the sensors were simply malfunctioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUZdpemH ... ed#t=3m11s (3:11)

If you'll look here, you actually see what appear to be massive red spots on the surface of the Earth.

[ThePerson5]

If the Daleks decide to board then the stormtroopers are utterly boned. It would take Dark Troopers to compete with Daleks, and even then I'd put my money on the Dalek.

If Daleks transmat onto a Star Destroyer, absolute carnage ensues.

[ChosenOne54]

Weren't Time-War era Dalek saucer also equipped with temporal weapons (temporal disruptors, time destructors etc.)?

Because the Empire has basically no defense against temporal attacks, possessing no (as far as I know) time technology at all.

[Stark]

Yes, I am aware that Jack was lying, and no, I don't really see how it is relevant to my comment. I was arguing your claim that the weapons were simply 'space g36s,' which they are clearly not. I wasn't talking about shield strength, though I'd assume that it got through simply because there were so many concentrated in one place. I also posted a video demonstrating the effect bastic bullets normally have on a Dalek. Unless the bullets in the Game Station were completely different types of bastic bullets, then it means Time War-era Daleks have advanced so as to be almost immune to them.

Uh, they ARE space G36s. Complete with 5.56mm brass flying out the side. Not my problem. The same advice is given to everyone fighting Daleks ever from the 60s on, because the eyestalks are amazingly fragile compared to the rest of them. If the Daleks had shown any actual intelligence during the fight at the barricade they wouldn't even have sustained this casualty... but since SW has weapons that fire a bajillion flechettes made of space metal, I think they just must be able to penetrate Dalek shielding.

PS if they weren't Bastic bullets (protip, they weren't) your video of them being used against something else entirely is completely irrelevant. 'A completely different type of bastic bullets'. Holy shit! Did you miss the part where the BASTIC SPLODED Daleks can be killed by a tiny bit of C4, a rifle grenade, a LAW, etc? You'd hope Time War Daleks couldn't, but TBH we only see them deal with small arms and energy weapons from the early 21st century.

Then again, you're inventing capabilities for this group of Daleks left and right, so there goes the thread. I bet they have vortex travel too - after all, a Dalek had it once! That's why they hung around in that timezone!

[ChosenOne54]

Uh, they ARE space G36s. Complete with 5.56mm brass flying out the side. Not my problem. The same advice is given to everyone fighting Daleks ever from the 60s on, because the eyestalks are amazingly fragile compared to the rest of them. If the Daleks had shown any actual intelligence during the fight at the barricade they wouldn't even have sustained this casualty... but since SW has weapons that fire a bajillion flechettes made of space metal, I think they just must be able to penetrate Dalek shielding.

Why would they need to use tactics at all? The Daleks outnumbered the humans, outgunned them, and they were practically immune to their bullets, except for that one injury. And what Star Wars weapon fires a 'bajillion flechettes' at once? Because based on what I've seen in the films, standard equipment for stormtroopers are blasters.

PS if they weren't Bastic bullets (protip, they weren't)

Eh? Jack specifically says that they are bastic bullets.

...your video of them being used against something else entirely is completely irrelevant. 'A completely different type of bastic bullets'. Holy shit! Did you miss the part where the BASTIC SPLODED

http://memedepot.com/uploads/1000/1148_ ... 725640.jpg

No seriously, what are you trying to say?

...Daleks can be killed by a tiny bit of C4, a rifle grenade, a LAW, etc? You'd hope Time War Daleks couldn't, but TBH we only see them deal with small arms and energy weapons from the early 21st century.

A tiny bit of C4? A single grenade?

The lone Dalek in the Dalek episode survived burning in a crater for three days directly after falling through time (and therefore the time vortex, which is lethal), and atmospheric re-entry, crashing onto some island from orbit. Now I may be wrong, but I doubt your bog-standard stormtrooper could do that.

Anyway, it might interest you to know somebody attempted to do some calcs for Dalek weaponry and shielding. Here's the link:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=162857