The Matrix vs. Skynet

[ThePerson5]

Scenario 1: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-800

Scenario 2: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-1000

Scenario 3: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-X

Scenario 4: Agent Smith (unplugged, Revolutions incarnation) vs. T-X

Scenario 5: Real-life Machines (Sentinels etc.) vs. Skynet

So, which side wins?

[Ahriman238]

Scenario 1-Smith

Scenario 2- Probably Smith

Scenarios 3 and 4- unknown. What is this 'T-X' you refer to? And how is it connected to Skynet/the Terminator series?

Scenario 5- actually pretty tough to call. I'll say Matrix though, since I can't really see Terminators dealing well with the vast swarms of Sentinels that hit Zion, and the Machines are implied to have more, like the drill they used to tunnel into Zion, or the Megascale harvesters seen briefly in the first movie.

[Tanasinn]

The T-X was the lame-ass 1000/800 hybrid from T-3.

I'd contest T-1000 vs. plugged Smith (I don't think he could actually damage the T-1000) and Machines vs. Skynet, if only because the Machines actually demonstrate less intelligence than Skynet, spamming melee-oriented squidbots at an enemy regardless of whether or not they have firearms. Skynet does, and Skynet also has nuclear weapons.

[PREDATOR490]

Scenario 1: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-800

Scenario 2: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-1000

Scenario 3: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-X

Scenario 4: Agent Smith (unplugged, Revolutions incarnation) vs. T-X

Scenario 5: Real-life Machines (Sentinels etc.) vs. Skynet

So, which side wins?

1 - 3: Smith

Kinda retarded since that means the T has to be plugged into the Matrix where Smith can do all his Slo mo bullshit and the T abilities are.... limited by the confines of the Matrix. That said, I can easily see a Terminator not being killable inside the Matrix because it's body / mind will not register being 'killed' the same way Humans apparantly do.

If the Terminator cannot die then this is going to be a hilarious situation of one killing the other over and over while neither can die. Only way to end this stalemate is to confine the Terminator within the Matrix or send Sentinels etc. to kill the T in the real world.

4 - Human vs Terminator - Ummm, kinda obvious which way this would go since Smith has no magic abilities outside the Matrix against an opponent that is specifically designed to kill humans. Arc gun vs T-X onboard arsenal of weapons = Dead Smith

5 - Matrix machines - Skynet is a minor power in a desolate wasteland fighting rebels vs a global spanning power in a desolate wasteland fighting rebels
Skynet was never shown to have the kind of numbers that would match the army of Sentinels but I can see a decent amount of casulties being inflicted on the Matrix machines so it will likely run down to attrition which the Matrix has in spades over Skynet.

[Havok]

I've always like to pretend that Skynet was the ancestor of the machines in The Matrix.

[Ahriman238]

I took 'unplugged' to mean, 'after he lost to Neo, lost his earpiece starting converting ordinary people into him and became a virtual god.'

The T-X was the lame-ass 1000/800 hybrid from T-3.

Lies. There was no such film.

[The Romulan Republic]

1-3: I'm going to concur with Smith taking it, unless Machines are unkillable in the Matrix, as PREDATOR490 noted.

4: Not sure, never seen most of Revelations. But if he is just an ordinary man at that point, yeah, he probably loses. At best, its a question of who shoots first, and the machine probably has better stealth and reflexes.

5: I suspect Skynet takes it. Yes, Ahriman238 is right that Sentinals can probably smash standard terminators. But Skynet also has a lot of air and armored support. I'm not saying they won't lose some units, or that it'll be over in a day, but I think Skynet has the edge. Though I expect both sides will make heavy use of nuclear weapons.

PREDATOR490, on what basis do you say that Skynet is a minor as opposed to a global power? The series always implied the war was occurring on an international/global scale. Reese basically says in the first film that humans almost went extinct, and wasn't the human leadership in Salvation international as well?

Skynet is begin sorely underrated here.

[FedRebel]

Scenario 1: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-800

Scenario 2: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-1000

Scenario 3: Agent Smith (Not unplugged) vs. T-X

Smith would win...eventually

Since agents can jump in and out of humans as each is destroyed eventually the Terminators will be exhausted and/or lured to an area where Smith can kill them. Ofcourse The Architect could give Agent Smith the cheat codes for a BFG and then the termies die quick

Scenario 4: Agent Smith (unplugged, Revolutions incarnation) vs. T-X

Still in the virtual world?

Swarms of Smith's will eventually overwhelm the terminators

Scenario 5: Real-life Machines (Sentinels etc.) vs. Skynet

The machines have the squids which seem to specialize in melee, admittedly they have those bomb thingy's too. and the machines have anti-air artillery

SkyNet has infantry armed with guns, tanks, and ground attack aircraft

Out in the open Skynet would likely dominate, but the cities would be more of a challenge, The AA would likely prevent Skynet from asserting aerial superiority

Skynet would win the war if it has the infrastructure to replace losses

Though I expect both sides will make heavy use of nuclear weapons.

The T1/T2 iteration of Skynet would likely have an edge in such a hypothetical scenario, since it was built for SAC/NORAD for Strategic Deterrent and Defense command & control (unlike the T3 iteration which was just "Norton Anti-virus: Pentagon Edition" gone evil)

PREDATOR490, on what basis do you say that Skynet is a minor as opposed to a global power? The series always implied the war was occurring on an international/global scale. Reese basically says in the first film that humans almost went extinct, and wasn't the human leadership in Salvation international as well?

Skynet is begin sorely underrated here.

Agreed

I think his argument is based on the first three films being set with heavy fighting in 2029 LA being the backdrop for sending the Terminators back in time.

When it comes down to it both Earths are irradiated shitholes, with the Matrix Earth shrouded in eternal night, and we know jack about the overall Global dispositions of either Skynet's or the matrix machines infrastructure/cities and forces.

[Shroom Man 777]

Skynet blows up the harvested human power plants, such big and juicy targets that they are that are also routinely infiltrated by Zionists who steal rejected people who are pooed out. Unless the Machines allowed the Zionists to steal those guys, due to their bullshit plan and stuff.

[Darth Tedious]

RE: Skynet being local as opposed to global, I thought it was implied to be pretty much localised in the US.

In T2, it was explicitly stated that Skynet fired US missiles at Russian targets, and that MAD return fire did the rest.

Or did that change after T3, what with Skynet 2.0 and all that?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'll concede its not something we have an absolutely definitive answer on.

[KlavoHunter]

There was a really damn good fic about this written up here some time ago I remember.

[Elheru Aran]

The rule of thumb, IIRC, is that generally Skynet assumed control of at least one country's weapons systems and caused MAD; afterwards, we honestly don't know how much of the world it controls, and how much is just an irradiated shithole that it doesn't give a digi-shit about. It's more or less usually supposed to be the dominant world power after the Judgement Day, until of course John Connor et al knock it over... there's just not a whole lot of data to go on, period, aside from Terminator Salvation and a few bits from novels and such.

[Darth Tedious]

Okay, having just gotten around to watching T4 (yeah, I left it that long ), John Connor does mention Skynet having a global network, but it's entirely possible most of it was built after Judgement Day.

As much as I love the level of open-endedness in the Terminator saga, it really doesn't help for the purpose of vs. debating.

PS- Slightly off-topic, but why did people tell me Salvation was shit? It certainly craps all over T3...

[Tanasinn]

That's saying precious little, since Terminator 3 was intolerable.

[Darth Tedious]

That's saying precious little, since Terminator 3 was intolerable.

Well yeah, but having only watched it once, I'm not willing to say "better than T2!" (I actually like T1 best). I was really impressed, but don't want to speak too soon, in case I rewatch it an/d decide it's shit... Maybe that's what happened to everyone else?

[Starglider]

The humans lost at Zion largely because their crappy-mecha kept running out of ammo and had no pilot protection whatsoever. Replace them with HK tanks, which have fusion-reactor-powered plasma guns, computer targetting and heavy hyperalloy armor, and the squids probably would have been gunned down en masse. The air defences for the machine city seemed to be oriented towards very slow hovercraft, according to the novels Skynet has hypersonic stealth bombers. On a strategic scale Skynet was designed to fight large-scale nuclear and conventional warfare and is very good at it; it lost to a guerilla insurgency that could not easily be destroyed by concentration of firepower and turned its own weapons against it. The Matrix machines do not appear to have any aptitude for warfare beyond destroying underground cities with giant drills and massively wasteful zerg rushes.

In summary the Matrix machines have such outstandingly awful tactics and robot designs that I give Skynet decent odds of overcoming the numerical mismatch. We don't really have enough information to say which side would win the info-warfare dimension.

[doom3607]

Well, in all fairness the Sentinels looked less like combat machines to me and more like repurposed maintenance bots. If that's what they really were, the Matrix may stand a better chance than you think.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, in all fairness the Sentinels looked less like combat machines to me and more like repurposed maintenance bots. If that's what they really were, the Matrix may stand a better chance than you think.

Why? If all they have is maintenance bots and some shitty anti-aircraft guns, that doesn't speak well for their chances.

[doom3607]

I wasn't suggesting that was all they had- maybe they simply didn't bother activating their war machines when swarms of maintenance bots would do the job anyway.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm, maybe, but then aren't you just speculating about technology which we have no proof they have? It doesn't really mean anything in a debate. Sure, its possible, but we have no idea either way.

[doom3607]

Well, we know they could previously take on a human civilzation that we have to assume was at least as powerful as today, and just the sentinels wouldn't be able to do that. So clearly they at least had something better. Or they have half a trillion Sentinels we never saw.

[The Romulan Republic]

That doesn't mean their capabilities haven't weakened over the years. Why maintain thousands of tanks and planes you don't need any more?

[doom3607]

This is true. But if you've knowingly got some of your enemies free and resisting, it's only common sense to be prepared. Just in case. And the machines didn't seem that stupid to me.

[The Romulan Republic]

How many thousands of underequipped enemies limited to a single city?