Gave Stargate: Universe a Shot...

[Skylon]

I take back any bad thoughts I had about Stargate: Universe. Some spoilers maybe in this post.

I'm a good way through season 1, and I dismissed it while it ran as "Stargate: Galactica." Atlantis made me feel like the Stargate franchise had nowhere left to go after SG-1, which I just finished watching all of up to season 8 (and that is as far as I plan to go...I saw some of seasons 9 and 10 as they aired, and outside of "200" was not impressed). But some buddies of mine insisted I should give it a shot.

Watching it right after "Moebius", SGU is like a breath of fresh air. The darker tone actually translates well to the Stargate universe, simply because I buy it as the world everyone outside of realm SG-1 inhabits. SG-1 was about the best of the best. SGU feels more like the show where the characters are the "everyone else" connected to the SGC. The characters are all good at what they do, but flawed in ways that put them just a peg under O'Neill and company.

Simply put, the Destiny expedition feels like the type of group SG-1 would have to bail out if this were a normal episode of that show (and half of them would die in the process probably). That makes it work within the context of the existing mythos.

The characters hold my interest more than I expected. The Young/Rush dynamic shows more conflict than we ever saw between characters on SG-1, and I didn't expect Young to try and outright maroon Rush. Greer is oddly compelling as the "never say die" Marine, and rings like exactly the type of soldier who would get recruited into the SGC. Eli is, God help me for saying this, a "boy genius" type character done right. Lt. Scott is the only character who feels like he's in the mold of character we saw on SG-1 and Atlantis, as he plays the part of the straight-arrow air force officer (albeit with his own demons).

Comparing this show to "Galactica" seems off base, aside from the shaky cam. The show instead feels more like the differences between Star Trek: TNG and Star Trek: DS9.

I'm sorry I missed the ride as it was airing, and its a shame it was canned.

[Kingmaker]

I think the comparisons between nBSG and SGU are rather facile; for example, the implication that Rush was a knockoff Baltar ignores that their personalities are almost complete opposites.

Overall, SGU was a good idea (some of the "younger and sexier" bits were rather ironic), but it wasn't very well executed. For one, it struck me as being fundamentally joyless and apathetic. For another, despite being more arc driven, its pacing is best described as glacial. I found the characters interesting in theory, but the execution was lacking again. Greer and Eli were the only characters I found to be consistently likable among the main cast. Greer was, surprisingly when you consider the original character pitch, one of the calmest characters on the show. On the other hand, the IOA bureaucrat was rather dull much of the time. Young could have been interesting as an administrative hack who was trying really hard but wasn't quite up to it, but they decided to go with a half-assed attempt at badass. Scott was just boring and Chloe was arms-flailing useless, neither of which are a good way to endear yourself to the audience. Rush was interesting, but also such a gigantic douchenozzle that you could easily forget that.

Also, I'm just going to leave this here.

[Batman]

Overall, SGU wasn't a good idea. The concept behind it might have been (the whole Destiny idea, exploring her/getting her to work, explore new worlds, find out what the hell is her mission, try to keep her going to finish it) was pure Stargate. The execution was anything but. For a goodly portion of the time the actual SciFi took a decided back seat to the crew drama when SG was the other way round even in the less than stellar 9th and 10th seasons (and all of SGA other than the stupid Mutie Ford angle), the only likeable character throughout was Edi (with Greer growing on you over time) which is a bad thing to do if you want to do the crew angle.
Ir got better in s2 and got noticeably better towards the end of s2 and if that pickup had happened at the end of s1 the series might even have persisted. Alas, they plodded along with crew drama, crew drama, Scifi bit thrown in, crew drama etc in the hopes that the audience would stick around for their 17 season plot to finally unfold or something. You don't do taht, especially not an SG audience.

[AndroAsc]

I didn't really like SGU because the environment was too depressing. I actually like shows that are grim and dark, but SGU is a turn off for the following reasons:
1) A clunky old ship that only becomes functional midway in Season 2 when they found the bridge and learned how to use it. I watch science fiction to see cool new tech, not piece of junk that is ready to break apart at any moment.
2) Bunch of whiny people complaining on every damn episode that they want to go home. It gets on my nerve.

If you ask me SGU does not fit into the theme of Stargate-ness.

Nevertheless, towards the end of Season 2 things were starting to look up... and then it got axed. How typical of a science fiction TV series, and we get the rest of the crap on TV.

[Batman]

I guess you're one of us pariahs then. You know, the people who managed to somehow get SGU cancelled by simply not watching it because we thought it wasn't worth it (in cases, managed to do so despite watching every last episode) and therefore somehow enticed scores of other viewers who would otherwise have stuck with the series to drop it because of, um, have I used quantum yet?

[Stofsk]

I think I managed four or five episodes before I realised I didn't give a shit about anyone on the Destiny and couldn't care less whether they made it home or not. Not even Voyager inspired such apathy in me.

I will sit down and watch SG-1, especially if it has Macguyver in charge. SGU? Piece of shit.

[Alyeska]

SG1 took a season before it got on its feet. Season 1 was mostly forgettable. Some good episodes, but largely forgettable. Season 2 introduced most of the cast of characters that stuck with the series and the concepts. SGA simply recycled the concept from SG1 and pretty much got off on the right foot.

SGU was trying something new. Like SG1, it took a season to get moving. So a lot of people saw the first season and couldn't stand it. Season 2 took a big step up in quality and towards the 2nd half of the season they got downright fantastic. Sadly, thats where it ended. Right when the series got into a groove and started getting good, it was cancelled.

[Ahriman238]

I really liked the first season of SG-1. Some of the episodes were silly, but a most of them were great. Also, you're some kind of heartless monster if you didn't like 'Singularity.'

SGU wasn't horrible most of the time, it was just medicore with flashes of brilliance. 'Time' was an awesome episode, at was the mutiny one, but I think that was it for season 1. Season two had generally better episodes, a bit less of the annoying character focus, only a tiny bit less, but progress is progress. The last half of season 2, after they canned it, was pretty consistently good.

[B5B7]

I have stuck with SGU, though at times it sucks. Some examples:

The pilot episode "Air' is contrived and shows them totally unprepared in any way for any sort of evacuation - they could have had some trucks loaded with stuff (that could drive through stargate) in case they ever needed to do an emergency evac.

The recent episode with Simeon of the Lucian Alliance (played by same guy who played Teabag in 'Prison Break' and the bad guy in last season of 'Heroes') was a mix of neat and annoying [neat the way Rush took him down; annoying that they let this psycho wander around after he harassed one of their female crew (a repeat offense, which his guard did nothing about); he should have been locked down after this]. But overall a decent episode.

Greer initially pissed me off because he was so undisciplined, but recently has been a likeable, self-disciplined character.

[neoolong]

I have stuck with SGU, though at times it sucks. Some examples:

The pilot episode "Air' is contrived and shows them totally unprepared in any way for any sort of evacuation - they could have had some trucks loaded with stuff (that could drive through stargate) in case they ever needed to do an emergency evac.

The destination for an emergency evacuation would be Earth, which you wouldn't need supplies for. If time is a factor then just getting people out is more important. I don't think that's really a lack of preparation. It's more Rush dialing Destiny and people kinda just letting him do it that was the problem.

[Batman]

The reason they couldn't go to Earth was that whatever technobabble kabloiee that was about to consume launch planet would travel with them to the receiving wormhole (but for some never explained reason not to Destiny, which reasonably should have been just as fucked as any other destination they could have dialled. Either the receiving gate is fucked or it is not.)

[neoolong]

Not exactly. He says that it might happen, not that it would happen.

"RUSH: The attack started a chain reaction in the planet's core. There's no way of stopping that, and any blast could easily translate through an open wormhole. It's too dangerous to dial Earth.

YOUNG: You could have dialled somewhere else, anywhere else."

Maybe not Earth, but somewhere else not in another galaxy would have been possible.

[Batman]

Not exactly. He says that it might happen, not that it would happen.
"RUSH: The attack started a chain reaction in the planet's core. There's no way of stopping that, and any blast could easily translate through an open wormhole. It's too dangerous to dial Earth.
YOUNG: You could have dialled somewhere else, anywhere else."
Maybe not Earth, but somewhere else not in another galaxy would have been possible.

I'm reasonably certain that was sort of my point.
Fun 'if you're that much of an SG-1 fan, how come you don't know that' fact (or lack thereof)-is there any way to terminate an incoming wormhole? There's any number of ways to prevent it ever being established but once it's there, is there any way to close it down?

[neoolong]

Yes, you can cause a gate to jump to the next closest gate when there's an incoming wormhole if it experiences a large enough power surge. First happened in S1E18: Solitudes.

[B5B7]

I have stuck with SGU, though at times it sucks. Some examples:

The pilot episode "Air' is contrived and shows them totally unprepared in any way for any sort of evacuation - they could have had some trucks loaded with stuff (that could drive through stargate) in case they ever needed to do an emergency evac.

The destination for an emergency evacuation would be Earth, which you wouldn't need supplies for. If time is a factor then just getting people out is more important. I don't think that's really a lack of preparation. It's more Rush dialing Destiny and people kinda just letting him do it that was the problem.

There have been situations in actual SG1 series where teams were unable to dial back to Earth and had to either wait or go elsewhere. The real military creates contingency plans for many situations, and actually prepares for the more possible ones. You do have a point that they mainly expected to be returning to earth, but they should have backup prep in case have to go elsewhere.

Of course the real reason they weren't prepared is plot-driven - they needed them to arrive on Destiny with the absolute minimum equipment and supplies, to increase the "drama". It's the reason incompetence is so popular in many modern shows (Torchwood, Primeval, The Event, Flashforward, etc).

[tezunegari]

Of course the real reason they weren't prepared is plot-driven - they needed them to arrive on Destiny with the absolute minimum equipment and supplies, to increase the "drama". It's the reason incompetence is so popular in many modern shows (Torchwood, Primeval, The Event, Flashforward, etc).

A writer with common sense would have had the attack during the second attempt at dialing the 9th chevron and not during dinner. This way they could have the gate lock onto Destiny and forcing them to evacuate there.

[Coalition]

They could have simply had an extra staring at a screen behind them, and say that there is an unknown party attempting an incoming wormhole. If they drop the wormhole to Destiny, the incoming wormhole establishes, and since they are getting attacked in space and someone is attempting wormhole, it probably isn't friendly.

This forces a choice on the crew; do they go through to the unknown, or get killed by incoming enemies/planet blowing up.

[Skylon]

Of course the real reason they weren't prepared is plot-driven - they needed them to arrive on Destiny with the absolute minimum equipment and supplies, to increase the "drama". It's the reason incompetence is so popular in many modern shows (Torchwood, Primeval, The Event, Flashforward, etc).

A writer with common sense would have had the attack during the second attempt at dialing the 9th chevron and not during dinner. This way they could have the gate lock onto Destiny and forcing them to evacuate there.

That was one of my larger gripes with the pilot, and may have been the biggest contrivance of the show. Riley is about to dial Earth and Rush basically shoves him out of the way and does whatever the fuck he wants (which is dial Destiny). So, a Sergeant in the USAF let himself get pushed aside, in spite of what he'd been ordered to do, without any protest, and lets wacko scientist guy do his thing.

I've finished season 1. I'm still into it, and it ended on a reasonable cliffhanger, however Young's failure to vent the gate room was way off base. He was ready to leave Rush for dead. Why the hell did he suddenly go soft? At least we had the fine moment of O'Neill giving Young a verbal reaming out of it.

Additionally, Scott, Eli and Chloe's return in the middle of "Sabotage" was pointless, and an utter waste of potential drama. If you were going to bring them back THAT easily why didn't you just have them make it back, safe and sound at the end of the previous episode ("Lost")?

[Thanas]

I think I managed four or five episodes before I realised I didn't give a shit about anyone on the Destiny and couldn't care less whether they made it home or not. Not even Voyager inspired such apathy in me.

I will sit down and watch SG-1, especially if it has Macguyver in charge. SGU? Piece of shit.

This.

Well, Rush was pretty good, but it was more the actor than the scripts.

[Slacker]

SG1 took a season before it got on its feet. Season 1 was mostly forgettable. Some good episodes, but largely forgettable. Season 2 introduced most of the cast of characters that stuck with the series and the concepts. SGA simply recycled the concept from SG1 and pretty much got off on the right foot.

SGU was trying something new. Like SG1, it took a season to get moving. So a lot of people saw the first season and couldn't stand it. Season 2 took a big step up in quality and towards the 2nd half of the season they got downright fantastic. Sadly, thats where it ended. Right when the series got into a groove and started getting good, it was cancelled.

This, in my opinion. Its biggest sin was taking time to find its footing, and it never really had a chance.

[Batman]

It's biggest sin was that it stunk before it managed to find its footing. SG-1 absolutely had its problems when it started out (I'd argue that it didn't really come into its own until s3) but it was enjoyable from the word go, and wasn't parked in an established franchise.
SGU wasn't something new. It was more Stargate. And it didn't do things the established Stargate way. The Stargate fans they counted on to make this show viable didn't like it. Yeah, that comes as a shock.
The problem with SGU was that it didn't really become Stargate until the second half of s2.

[Alyeska]

And that is a clear failing. What makes it even more disappointing is that it was cancelled after it started to reverse the trend. I honestly think the ratings would have been up in season 3. But its too late.

I do think SGU went out on a high note. They had a fantastic 2nd half of season 2. Even better, the writers knew that the finale to season 2 might be the series finale, so they wrote an appropriate episode to fit.

[Skgoa]

SGU's biggest sin was not being Stargate. I don't understand how this can be so difficult to grasp, so I will spell it out:
Stargate was about a group of intelligent, likable characters going on adventures and being heroes, most of the time saving Earth/the Galaxy/whatever with SCIENCE. Atlantis was basicaly more of the same, though they managed to recapture that sense of wonder and "stepping into the unknown" that SG had lost in its later years and did away with Stargate's more boring elements. Universe was... about a bunch of whiny self-destructive idiots. They were absolutely unlikable, their stupidity was so annoying that I wanbted to just reach into the tv and just smack them. SGU was nBSG transplanted into the Stargate universe. (And now we know where that name came from...) A show that insults it's audience's intelligence isn't "slow to find it's footing", its just stupid. And I don't want to watch a stupid darker-and-edgier whinefest with a cast solely made of stupid whiny bitches and stupid predictable DRAMADRAMADRAMA cookie-cutter plots. I want to watch Science Fiction.

[JME2]

SGU's biggest sin was not being Stargate. I don't understand how this can be so difficult to grasp, so I will spell it out:
Stargate was about a group of intelligent, likable characters going on adventures and being heroes, most of the time saving Earth/the Galaxy/whatever with SCIENCE. Atlantis was basicaly more of the same, though they managed to recapture that sense of wonder and "stepping into the unknown" that SG had lost in its later years and did away with Stargate's more boring elements. Universe was... about a bunch of whiny self-destructive idiots. They were absolutely unlikable, their stupidity was so annoying that I wanbted to just reach into the tv and just smack them. SGU was nBSG transplanted into the Stargate universe. (And now we know where that name came from...) A show that insults it's audience's intelligence isn't "slow to find it's footing", its just stupid. And I don't want to watch a stupid darker-and-edgier whinefest with a cast solely made of stupid whiny bitches and stupid predictable DRAMADRAMADRAMA cookie-cutter plots. I want to watch Science Fiction.

Fair enough.

I do sympathize with Wright and company, though. They could have chosen to repeat the familiar, yet worn-out style of 12 years of SG-1/SGA or tried something new, yet alien to the fans. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I've said it before, but there shouldn't be a fourth series -- current state of the franchise aside. The concept can only be recycled and tweaked so many times. I also don't know what else they could do.

[Stofsk]

The biggest thing that hurts sci-fi franchises these days is the need to tie in a continuing story arc that involves some badass villain who is all-powerful and needs to be defeated no matter the cost... when one of the premises of the setting is you can go anywhere, do anything with the gate system.

There really is no reason to keep inventing more and more all-powerful bad guys every season like SG-1 did (and I guess SGA did as well?) only to defeat them with a DEM at the end of the year. The premise of Destiny was actually an interesting one- stuck on a giant spaceship on the other side of the universe that's stuck on autopilot, and the survivors are trying to find a way home. But they messed it up by having flat characters no-one could give a shit about.