Rassilon in Star Wars...

[ThePerson5]

Idea from Spacebattles.

Let's assume that Palpatine fell down some stairs 20 years before The Phantom Menace, and was replaced by Rassilon (who had escaped the Time War, along with his gauntlet). His goal? Total universe domination.

What happens next?

[Darth Tedious]

This scenario may be somewhat affected by as-yet-unknown events from the forthcoming Darth Plagueis novel...

One of the most important being the specific date of Plagueis' death (estimated to be between 52 and 46 BBY).

Things would possibly play out quite differently if Plagueis was still alive at the time of Palpy's fall down a flight of stairs.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, I presume Rassilon is alone here. And he has no Time Lord tech. other than the gauntlet?

So, my questions are: what are the known capabilities of the gauntlet, and can a lone Time Lord replicate any of their other tech., without the infrastructure of Time Lord society as a whole?

[ChosenOne54]

Rassilon was the founder of Time Lord society, along with Omega. He is basically the pinnacle of Whoniverse wank.

Quotes from the wiki:

With Omega, he planned to make the star Qqaba go supernova. The energy released would enable the Gallifreyan race to travel through time, to become Time Lords.

He invented TARDISes, Gallifrey's transduction barrier, Looms and the De-mat Gun.

The Time Lords themselves may have been created by Rassilon: the genetic link that enabled Time Lords to travel through time without ill effects was known as the Rassilon Imprimatur, and it is implied that many physiological traits of Time Lords, including the ability to regenerate, were his creations.

Using temporal technology, Rassilon studied the future where he learned of the Divergence, a race that would eclipse his own within 10,000 millennia. Fearing this potential future, he created a self-replicating, biogenic molecule which he sent back in time to seed all habitable planets in Gallifrey's galaxy. This ensured that all intelligent life evolved in the form of the Gallifreyans who trapped the Divergence in their own timeline, which Rassilon sealed into a time loop.

Also this:

A comic book writer called Alan Moore (you may have heard of him) wrote a few tales of the earliest days of Time Lord history for a British publication. When the proto-Time Lords were creating the Black Hole that would become the Eye of Harmony, the shields on two of the Starkiller ships inside the Black Hole failed due to sabotage. One ship (carrying the Time Lord Omega) was destroyed. The other ship (Rassilon's ship) survived because he held back the singularity with his mind while fighting the saboteur with somethings suspiciously like Force Lightning.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... ostcount=7

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, so the guy knows how to invent fancy new tech. from scratch. That'll help him a lot.

I had to ask though, because my knowledge of the old, pre-2005 show is limited, and Rassilon obviously doesn't show up much in the new series.

[ChosenOne54]

Okay, so the guy knows how to invent fancy new tech. from scratch. That'll help him a lot.

Sorry, I can't tell whether or not this is sarcasm. Because it would help him a lot.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not sarcasm in the slightest. Time Lord tech. is absurdly effective.

[ChosenOne54]

Indeed. If given time to prepare, I wouldn't be surprised if Plagueis was the one calling Rassilon 'master.'

[Shroom Man 777]

Or he might not do jack shit if Star Wars tech is totally nothing like Who tech, and he ends up like an Apple computer technician nerd being sent to do the plumbing on a septic tank or something he knows nothing about. Did he do all that stuff in a cave, with a box of scraps, out of nothing? Or did he do that stuff with an existing proto-Time Lord techbase, which he couldn't do without? Or are we just going to grab some useless out of context shit and go "oooh DW dude wins coz i says so! haw haw haw!", and maybe alter the OP scenario when someone points out that it may not be as easy for that DW dude as you think?

Either way, since in Doctor Who, aliens can jerry rig MRI machines to kill all life on Earth or something (what the grandma alien vampire woman with a straw did in the hospital on the moon in the first episode of NuWho S3), I say Rassilon materializes in Tattooine, because that is where all the galaxy-shattering events in SW happens, and I guess he hijacks a Jawa Sandcrawler and jerry-rigs it using usual DW bullshit and turns the Jawa Sandcrawler into his super-TARDIS with treads, then he can make all the stars in the Galaxy Far Far Away go nova, and presto he wins.

Wait, exploding all the stars in the universe requires you to destroy your TARDIS, or at least that's what happened in nuWho S4. So Rassilon destroys the universe with the Jawa Sandcrawler TARDIS, but he has an extra TARDIS with him to use as an escape vehicle.

He jerry-rigs Owen Lars' shitty mud hut into a SEXY time-travelling death machine to win alls and drag planets into black holes and throw supernovas into people's cereals! Oh yeah!

He also takes Jabba the Hutt as his companion. Since Time Lords may regenerate into any kind of form and gender, it helps to keep a hermaphrodite companion around so you won't get lonely no matter what form you regenerate into. Even if that hermaphrodite is a morbidly obese slugman.

Then the Daleks from the Parting of the Ways kill everyone! Oh, wait, you mean to say that the Parting of the Ways Dalek suck and might have a hard time and are not overpowered and bullshit enough? Well, Rassilon can just travel back in time and change the OP to Journey's End Daleks so they can win alls! Rawr!

[NecronLord]

Or he might not do jack shit if Star Wars tech is totally nothing like Who tech,

Shroom, Interoperability of tech bases is presumed in all crossover threads on this site unless the OP says otherwise, you should know that by now.

[ChosenOne54]

-snip idiocy-

Right. So do you have a point to make?

[Stark]

He is basically the pinnacle of Whoniverse wank.

Especially since he's a near mythological figure associated with vague stories by Time Lords who have forgotten most of their history. Hell, if you listen to eyewitnesses like Omega, Rassilon was nothing but a brutal opportunist who stole credit for his work.

Frankly, without Omega Rassilon is just a politician and engineer, because he won't have the power source to conduct his time experiments or build his techbase. SW has a bad history of allowing cagey regional politicians to wield significant power, so it's not all bad for him.

[Havok]

Or he might not do jack shit if Star Wars tech is totally nothing like Who tech,

Shroom, Interoperability of tech bases is presumed in all crossover threads on this site unless the OP says otherwise, you should know that by now.

He is still recovering from the Magneto Vs Palpatine thread and Alleryim Dumbails thoughts on the Force not working on Magneto because he is assumed to not have midichlorians in him.

[Shroom Man 777]

Or he might not do jack shit if Star Wars tech is totally nothing like Who tech,

Shroom, Interoperability of tech bases is presumed in all crossover threads on this site unless the OP says otherwise, you should know that by now.

Does that mean Rassilon gets carte blanche to modify pre-PT Star Wars tech to blow up the quantum temporal continuum and reconfabulate the deflector dish's tripolarities to do all sorts of weird time vortex cortex complex herpes simplex duplex feats that have never been done in the SWverse? Cause, I'd think dumping Rassilon into the SWverse and having him technobabbulate a "DW guise wins again!' thing out of tech he's never before encountered makes as much sense as dumping Data and Scotty or whoever in SWverse and having them technobabbulate a "Trekkies win!" thing out of tech they've never before encountered. Oh, except I guess those Trek dudes don't have trigger guards in their technobabble while Rassilon's gauntlet does have trigger guards.

There's a difference between "interoperability of tech" and "Scotty/Rassilon/Doc Brown can reconfabulate the Star Destroyer's shield dome to do XYZ ridiculous feats that Star Wars tech has never done before".

I'm sure if anyone tried that technobabble bullshit in SWvsST, they'd get called tardtrekking fuckpalming bagdouches or whatever and their concessions would be resected.

Right. So do you have a point to make?

If your brain is actually capable of processing things other than "lol DW guise win win win ha ha ha!", which I doubt given those are the only things your threads and posts are about, my point is that:

A.) Rassilon does not have a proto-Time Lord wanktech techbase to work with, he has an unfamiliar SW techbase to work with, and assuming he can make black hole gaping speculum magic time weapons in Star Wars is no different from assuming Tony Stark could fabricate Iron Dark Trooper armor or put a hypermatter reactor in his chest cavity in a cave Tattooine with a box of Jawa junk.

If I said that bullshit with Tony Stark, I'd get strakked. But if it's Rassilon, well, I guess Timothy Dalton can totally do it by monologuing and hamming it up for an entire shitty two-parter episode shitfest.

B.) Your assumption that Rassilon will somehow replicate his feats in DW using unfamiliar SW feats is ridiculous. Which is why I mocked it, with the whole "omg Rassilon will turn a Sand Crawler into a TARDIS, omg Doctorb Who is so awsum!"

If someone said the same thing, but replaced Rassilon with Scotty, and assumed that they could reverse the polarity of a Star Destroyer's shield domes because they could do that with the Enterprise's deflector dish, and those techs are interoperable, lol.

C.) Maybe since Parting of the Ways Rassilon is shit, you might want to use Journey's End Rassilon so he might have a better chance.



I have an awesome idea. In The Doctor's Wife, we never see what mechanisms House and his Ood use to steal the TARDIS' soul or whatever. There was no technobabble. Was it magic?

If we say that Rassilon's technoshit will work on entirely different Star Wars tech, then maybe Sith Alchemy will also work on Doctor Who stuff to. Interoperability, right? So maybe Darth Plagueis steals the soul of Rassilon's TARDIS, and puts the TARDIS' soul inside Jabba the Hutt. Then Plagueis puts his own soul inside the TARDIS and achieves the immortality Sith so crave!

Then Rassilon will have to make another TARDIS, out of a Jawa Sand Crawler, and his sidekick will be his TARDIS whose soul is now trapped inside Jabba's body!

BARGON WANCHI KOX PA! MEEESA SEXY! HO-HO-HO!



But seriously. This debate is like asking what happens if Lex Luthor is dumped into the SWverse. His criminal genius, or Rassilon's Time Lord genius, won't do shit in a foreign alien environment that they are unfamiliar with. They could have minor wins by taking it slow and playing smart and staying in the background. But their massive advantages in their home universes are negated because they don't have these things in the SWverse.

This is like asking how would Thomas Edison fare if he was dumped in medieval France. ChosenOne and Person5 may quote all of Thomas Edison's achievements with electricity and how he dominated the world's technological scene with his products, but that won't make any difference unless Edison somehow invents an alternating current generator using a horse drawn mule and some potato batteries using his new, utterly shit, medieval tech base. Thomas Edison is Rassilon. Medieval France is Star Wars. Donkey shit is bantha poodoo, and that's all either of them will be shoveling.

[FaxModem1]

Well, isn't SW tech behind Time Lord tech? Couldn't Rassilon figure out what to do with it, and while maybe not conquer the galaxy, establish himself a power base?

[Shroom Man 777]

He won't be inventing any time machines or blackhole craps anytime soon. For all we know, someone might just shoot him in some Tattooine cantina or Coruscant alley and steal his gauntlet because it is shiny.

Maybe, if they can't get the gauntlet off his hand, they chop his hand off.

Rassilon can regenerate! Then using technobabble, he can turn his amputated hand into ANOTHER Rassilon!

Then his companion, Jabba, can get... even more technobabbled! So while Jabba and Hand Rassilon are stuck in the Jawa Sandcrawler TARDIS, Jabba gets infused by time energy and becomes THE DOCTOR JABBA!

Then he presses a button that destroys all of the ISDs in the Imperial fleet. Oh wait, the Imperial Navy doesn't have a convenient "destroy all of our warships" button because they aren't as mind-bogglingly stupid as Journey's End Daleks no matter how ugly Palpatine and Davros both look.

[avatarxprime]

Or he might not do jack shit if Star Wars tech is totally nothing like Who tech,

Shroom, Interoperability of tech bases is presumed in all crossover threads on this site unless the OP says otherwise, you should know that by now.

Does that mean Rassilon gets carte blanche to modify pre-PT Star Wars tech to blow up the quantum temporal continuum and reconfabulate the deflector dish's tripolarities to do all sorts of weird time vortex cortex complex herpes simplex duplex feats that have never been done in the SWverse? Cause, I'd think dumping Rassilon into the SWverse and having him technobabbulate a "DW guise wins again!' thing out of tech he's never before encountered makes as much sense as dumping Data and Scotty or whoever in SWverse and having them technobabbulate a "Trekkies win!" thing out of tech they've never before encountered. Oh, except I guess those Trek dudes don't have trigger guards in their technobabble while Rassilon's gauntlet does have trigger guards.

There's a difference between "interoperability of tech" and "Scotty/Rassilon/Doc Brown can reconfabulate the Star Destroyer's shield dome to do XYZ ridiculous feats that Star Wars tech has never done before".

Difference is Time Lords do that stuff all the time. Remember the "superphone?" All the Doctor did was wave his Sonic screwdriver over Martha's phone and all of a sudden she can make phone calls across time and space, even in settings where there is no possible way that a cell phone tower is up and running. Or how about Jack's vortex manipulator that he vastly upgraded with a wave of his magic wand screwdriver. There are other examples but I really don't feel like bringing them up. The fact of the matter is the Doctor has shown the ability to casually upgrade tech that is vastly inferior to Time Lord tech without much apparent effort. Then if you want to say "well Rassilon doesn't have a screwdriver," well in "The Lodger" the Doctor doesn't even use his screwdriver to develop a scanner from bits of stuff available to him on early 21st Century Earth to develop a scanner to detect that pseudo-Tardis. Rassilon, given the feats attributed to him, should certainly be within the same ballpark, capability wise, as the Doctor so he should be able to perform similar feats.

[Shroom Man 777]

Fine. Rassilon sonics a lightsaber and slices Alderaan into half with it. Pocket supersaberlaser!

Like I said, using that logic and usual Doctor Who ridiculous nonsense, Rassilon might as well be able to produce a TARDIS or some other superweapon out of the junk found in a Jawa Sand Crawler and rule the universe with it. I'm surprised that you and ChosenOne and Person5 aren't agreeing with my Sand Crawler TARDIS and Companion Jabba scenario. That's pretty much what you guys are proposing anyway, except I out and out present it as stupidly as it actually is whereas you guys all blush and giggle and pull down your skirts modestly.

Re-reading the OP, okay. Rassilon replaces Palpatine. As what? Plagueis' student? As Naboo senator? Okay, he starts from that. But the question is, how well can he scheme in the SW political scene? Can he do it as good/bad as Palpatine, who has the benefit of Force powers and Sith knowledge to manipulate people, read their thoughts and see the future? Can he hide from the Jedi and other forces as well as Palpatine, who again knows how to deal with Jedi and run circles around them?

[avatarxprime]

Fine. Rassilon sonics a lightsaber and slices Alderaan into half with it. Pocket supersaberlaser!

Like I said, using that logic and usual Doctor Who ridiculous nonsense, Rassilon might as well be able to produce a TARDIS or some other superweapon out of the junk found in a Jawa Sand Crawler and rule the universe with it. I'm surprised that you and ChosenOne and Person5 aren't agreeing with my Sand Crawler TARDIS and Companion Jabba scenario. That's pretty much what you guys are proposing anyway, except I out and out present it as stupidly as it actually is whereas you guys all blush and giggle and pull down your skirts modestly.

Please, I never said anything in the vein of Rassilon reconstructing Time Lord tech five minutes after landing in the SW verse and taking over with TARDIS in hand. I simply pointed out that when some goes "and Time Lord X will improve technology Y to technology Y+1" they have a point, because Time Lords have done so in their own universe using all manner of random tech. Given time to study and learn about SW tech, it's therefore reasonable to assume a Time Lord could pull of similar in SW verse.

Re-reading the OP, okay. Rassilon replaces Palpatine. As what? Plagueis' student? As Naboo senator? Okay, he starts from that. But the question is, how well can he scheme in the SW political scene? Can he do it as good/bad as Palpatine, who has the benefit of Force powers and Sith knowledge to manipulate people, read their thoughts and see the future? Can he hide from the Jedi and other forces as well as Palpatine, who again knows how to deal with Jedi and run circles around them?

Well that depends on how well his abilities transfer over to the SW universe. Using the Doctor as an example the Time Lords can read minds, have an inherent ability to perceive the flow of time in a manner that let's them see possible futures and pasts, and can readily absorb certain forms of energy with no harm to themselves. Stark also pointed out that Rassilon was more a politician and schemer than scientist. If he retains his Marvel comics style "cosmic awareness" then he likely can manipulate events to favor himself, but I doubt he'd be anywhere as effective as Palpatine. Without the Shroud of the Darkside then it's assumed Yoda would have been able to see through the deception Palpatine was using so Rassilon gets no such advantage. This also makes Jedi harder to kill since their powers aren't going to be nerfed by act of plot, giving Rassilon an overall much more difficult job.

[ChosenOne54]

C.) Maybe since Parting of the Ways Rassilon is shit, you might want to use Journey's End Rassilon so he might have a better chance.

Yeah... so why are you telling that to me? Maybe you should...tell it to the person who actually made that thread?

Seriously, you are taking wankish threads that other people made, and using them to somehow argue that I'm a retarded fanboy.

I am confuzzed.

[mr friendly guy]

How many Time Lords besides the Doctor has shown a MacGuyver ability to turn shit into wonder tech +5 for the win.

I don't recall anyone else doing it. In fact when the TL want to manipulate things, they don't upgrade the tech of their pawns, they either bribe or pay for mercenaries - see the novel Warmonger. Frankly there is no need for a regular TL to be able to upgrade <insert alien race's tech> because they are isolationist by nature. Only the Doctor has a need to do so, and while its not unreasonable that if a TL was left to their own devices, cut off from Gallifrey, they MIGHT be able to do what the Doctor does, its still drawing a long bow.

The closest I can recall to a TL doing their MacGuyver imitation is during the Time Monster, when the Doctor makes a time scanner out of non electronic parts in The Time Monster, and mentions that as students they use to do something similar to screw up each others experiments. However we don't know what manner of tech the TL students had, and its not unreasonable to assume the Doctor is referring to making a time scanner, rather than making a time scanner out of low tech products.

If we look at other TL attempts to improve low tech we have a few examples. The Master tried to improve his tissue compressor eliminator but it ended up shrinking. The other times he has used alien tech or tried to improve his TARDIS with tech from alien races which in some fields are arguably comparable to the Time Lords. I don't recall seeing him doing what the Doctor does with just like that, although he can miniaturise other tech into his laser screwdriver, see how he used the lazarus machine tech to age the Doctor. This is improvement in miniaturisation, but hardly improvement in scale.

Now if Rassilon had a sonic screwdriver, then you might be able to argue that he could eventually improve SW tech to more his level, otherwise its debatable whether the SW tech base is enough to let him build his super cool toys. His best bet would most probably be building something that will allow Gallifrey to escape the Time Lock and enter the SW universe, because then its a whole new ball game.

[FaxModem1]

What about the Master and his building of an entire invasion fleet using 21st century tech and a cannibalized TARDIS?

[mr friendly guy]

Fair enough, but he had the toclafane to help him. I am sure he could give extra blueprints and what not to upgrade tech, but I am willing to bet he still needs industry to churn those out, unlike the Doctor using household items to build a time scanner.

The other problem with this OP is, we don't know what intermediate tech is available to Rassilon. He doesn't just wave a wand and the SW tech of his allies get +5. He must be at least aware of the scientific principles and engineering required for this inferior tech. I suppose its possible he might teach his SW allies about "fission grenades" (which aren't nuclear fission BTW) * and about DW hyperspace, which is clearly faster than SW hyperspace, but it will still take time to teach this to his SW allies and for them to assimilate the new knowledge.

* one Minyan fission grenade held in Tom Baker's hand was rated at 1000 MT, and two of them destroyed a small asteroid.

edit - other TL don't seem to be on the level of the Doctor who waves the sonic screwdriver and instant tech upgrade.

[Parallax]

Drax, seen in 'The Armageddon Factor', was rather good at technology.
Same for the Rani.
And that Time Lord who was being held in 'The Twin Dilemma'.
Susan seemed to be adequate and she was very young.

Actually, any Time Lord we've seen who actually has the motivation to leave Gallifrey seems to be a technological master. Those who are dull enough to stay in the Citadel seem less capable.

In the Dr Who EU, Rassilon had built his own research/storage/lair deep within Gallifrey called The Slaughterhouse. It contained levels of technology which were ... mind boggling to say the least.

[Shroom Man 777]

C.) Maybe since Parting of the Ways Rassilon is shit, you might want to use Journey's End Rassilon so he might have a better chance.

Yeah... so why are you telling that to me? Maybe you should...tell it to the person who actually made that thread?

Seriously, you are taking wankish threads that other people made, and using them to somehow argue that I'm a retarded fanboy.

I am confuzzed.

I am in the assumption that you and Person5 are the same being, though different regenerations of the same being, posting from perhaps different time periods. Who knows.

And I'm telling that to you since you were asking what was my point. That was my point.

Actual other people in this thread have posted questions and points regarding how problematic it may be for these DW guise to achieve total ultimate victory rawr. Whereas ChosenPerson5One, as in all the other threads this/last week, just always plops selective out of context quotes about the DW guises' achievements to contrive some kind of proof that these guise will have their awsum victories.

I'm half expecting PersonOne to post pictures of Daleks blowing up some guy's home as proof of Rassilon's awesome destructive powers somehow.