What Becomes of Earth?

[StarSword]

A question asked by a friend on another board (in regards to my modding project) has sparked an interesting thought for discussion. Assuming humanity doesn't manage to kill itself off in the next hundred years or so, and spreads throughout the Milky Way, what becomes of Earth (financially, spiritually, politically, grammatically, whatever-ly)?

For purposes of this topic, we'll assume FTL travel (speeds in weeks to months to cross the galaxy, same as in my project) is readily available. Scattered worlds, about five percent of the total Class M's (assume about one M for every five planetary systems), have sentient races at various stages of development, including four or five other FTL-capable species that control roughly a third of the galaxy between them. Other parameters are left deliberately unstated.

My thinking is that Earth's political importance decreases as more and more humans are born far from it, but it assumes somewhat of a mystical, spiritual importance, enough to inspire pilgrimages to the Womb of Humanity or some such. Haven't really thought much further than that, honestly.

[Stark]

You mean like how Africa or Liverpool has now?

Why would someone born on Space Platform Rocketpack in the PewPew Agglomeration give a fuck where people lived millions of years ago? People struggle to care NOW, and it's not even that far away!

[avatarxprime]

Thanks to FTL that let's you traverse the galaxy in a few months at most and the relatively small timeframe, you'd likely get a replay of the great age of Colonization. Colonies close to their starting power (the Earth) will remain relatively closely tied (essentially farming resources and sending them back home) while those farther out will grow increasingly more independent and will want more rights. While the various colonies are building themselves up over your 100 year time span the Earth will likely remain the major power since it's already developed. Eventually some kind of succession/independence war will start out and everyone will adjust. During all of this large multinational corporations become large multi-system corporations heading up all kind of space mining operations. It's possible you'd see the return of Company Housing, with individuals being more so citizens of the company they work for then of the nation or colony they started from.

[Darth Tedious]

The first thing that came to my mind when was Earth's fate in the Red Dwarf novelisation, where it was converted into a planet-wide landfill for the rest of the solar system.

And only a hundred or so years? Even if FTL became available tomorrow, I doubt we'd see any extensive colonisation in that timeframe. Shit, I'd be impressed if we put an outpost on the moon in the next 30 years.

[Stark]

Thanks to FTL that let's you traverse the galaxy in a few months at most and the relatively small timeframe, you'd likely get a replay of the great age of Colonization. Colonies close to their starting power (the Earth) will remain relatively closely tied (essentially farming resources and sending them back home) while those farther out will grow increasingly more independent and will want more rights. While the various colonies are building themselves up over your 100 year time span the Earth will likely remain the major power since it's already developed. Eventually some kind of succession/independence war will start out and everyone will adjust. During all of this large multinational corporations become large multi-system corporations heading up all kind of space mining operations. It's possible you'd see the return of Company Housing, with individuals being more so citizens of the company they work for then of the nation or colony they started from.

I think he was asking about social attitudes, and not your worldbuilding fiction. Just sayin.

[FaxModem1]

If there is some sort of industry or important thing there, then it remains as such, for the duration that there is valid resources, employable things or people, and it is profitable to do so.

Otherwise, like wealthy tourists go to see the Pyramids now, that would probably be the main draw of Earth, as its the Galactic Cradle of Civilization and where humanity started, but other than that, it will be full of people supporting themselves by selling trinkets to off world tourists, and unable to support themselves in any other way if there's no industry or thing to draw them there.

Whereas Pandora, Alpha Prime, Dragnox VIII or whatever becomes the new hub of humanity, Earth becomes as important as Cairo on the international stage.

[StarSword]

... and the relatively small timeframe ...

And only a hundred or so years? Even if FTL became available tomorrow, I doubt we'd see any extensive colonisation in that timeframe. Shit, I'd be impressed if we put an outpost on the moon in the next 30 years.

The timeframe was actually supposed to be another unstated parameter. Didn't mean to imply by my "humanity doesn't kill itself off" remark that this happens a hundred years from now, just that humans didn't manage to kill themselves off, whether by global warming or by a nuclear war. (In my project, humans don't develop FTL until the 2700's anyway.)

[DatBurnTho11]

You know, I'm not really sure I agree. What kind of timescale are we really talking about here. If it's less than a thousand years, then I really can't see that Earth has lost it's significance. Comparing it to how we would consider Africa doesn't really apply. It's been millions of years since humans migrated from Africa, but would only have been a measly thousand years since we left Earth.

Take D13's biology class for example. Any class on the biological process of evolution requires that you look at the planet upon which humans evolved. All those nice phylogenies that explain the divergence of one species from another that are integral to our understanding of medicine and biology CANNOT be applied on more than one planet at once. It's all fine to look at the mechanisms, etc. but if you actually want to see those mechanisms take place, you have to look at one planet. And which planet are they likely to consider? Earth. Also, this wouldn't be an abstract origin theory, that would be the entire subject of the class on biology. Several aspects of biology and medicine really do not make sense or are difficult to explain without knowledge of evolution.

And honestly, how likely is it going to be that we'll care more about the evolution of the one slime mold we found on planet XYZ rather than our own evolution. From my reading of the OP, humans are still the dominant/only sentient species in the galaxy.,

It might be that some people don't care about these issues - that's completely fine. But saying that Earth would have absolutely no or only an abstract significance is kind of ridiculous.

[DatBurnTho11]

Thanks to FTL that let's you traverse the galaxy in a few months at most and the relatively small timeframe, you'd likely get a replay of the great age of Colonization. Colonies close to their starting power (the Earth) will remain relatively closely tied (essentially farming resources and sending them back home) while those farther out will grow increasingly more independent and will want more rights. While the various colonies are building themselves up over your 100 year time span the Earth will likely remain the major power since it's already developed. Eventually some kind of succession/independence war will start out and everyone will adjust. During all of this large multinational corporations become large multi-system corporations heading up all kind of space mining operations. It's possible you'd see the return of Company Housing, with individuals being more so citizens of the company they work for then of the nation or colony they started from.

This makes more sense. It'd be better considering the timeframes and the speed of FTL that we are considering to compare this to the age of colonization than to the migration of humans from Africa.

I'd note that this instance is completely distinct from those of the Great Diaspora, in which STL transportation and communication makes it likely that knowledge about the birthplace of humanity is likely to just be forgotten.

[Simon_Jester]

Whereas Pandora, Alpha Prime, Dragnox VIII or whatever becomes the new hub of humanity, Earth becomes as important as Cairo on the international stage.

Cairo is a city of moderate importance- it seems irrelevant if you live in the US, but so do a lot of the world's major cities. Most people don't care too much about cities on another continent, after all.

If you live in northern Africa or the 'historically Arab' parts of the Middle East, Cairo is one of the major urban centers of your 'world.' Large population, substantial universities and businesses- it's just a place of regional, not universal, importance.

Which, come to think of it, would be a plausible outcome for Earth, too...

[sirocco]

I think that Earth will be a major power for a long time after the discovery of FTL due to its huge population, its industrial basis and most certainly the resources of our solar system and the ones closer to us, as they would be the first to be colonized. However it would suffer from 2 major problems:
- at the beginning most colonies will be funded by Earth and people will be fine with it. But the farther you get, the less interested will they be by space economy. They'd like that money to stay home.
- Earth is and probably will remain a multi-nation power. Add to this the development of large corporations, and you end up with various organisations throughout the galaxy, each one with its own agenda.

So I think that finally Earth would probably still be the center of galaxy in the sense that pretty much every major force will still probably have its headquarter here.

[Simon_Jester]

By the time the entire galaxy could be settled, there would have to be a great many worlds (systems) which had been settled by humans for hundreds or thousands of years. The population and industrial development of those worlds (or those entire star systems) would be pretty close to that of Earth (or Sol system).

Why wouldn't they have an equal share of power?

[FaxModem1]

Whereas Pandora, Alpha Prime, Dragnox VIII or whatever becomes the new hub of humanity, Earth becomes as important as Cairo on the international stage.

Cairo is a city of moderate importance- it seems irrelevant if you live in the US, but so do a lot of the world's major cities. Most people don't care too much about cities on another continent, after all.

If you live in northern Africa or the 'historically Arab' parts of the Middle East, Cairo is one of the major urban centers of your 'world.' Large population, substantial universities and businesses- it's just a place of regional, not universal, importance.

Which, come to think of it, would be a plausible outcome for Earth, too...

Exactly, how many people, outside of those who live there or near there, care about Cleveland, Liverpool, Dresden, St. Petersburg?

[avatarxprime]

Thanks to FTL that let's you traverse the galaxy in a few months at most and the relatively small timeframe, you'd likely get a replay of the great age of Colonization. Colonies close to their starting power (the Earth) will remain relatively closely tied (essentially farming resources and sending them back home) while those farther out will grow increasingly more independent and will want more rights. While the various colonies are building themselves up over your 100 year time span the Earth will likely remain the major power since it's already developed. Eventually some kind of succession/independence war will start out and everyone will adjust. During all of this large multinational corporations become large multi-system corporations heading up all kind of space mining operations. It's possible you'd see the return of Company Housing, with individuals being more so citizens of the company they work for then of the nation or colony they started from.

I think he was asking about social attitudes, and not your worldbuilding fiction. Just sayin.

Yeah, but the social attitudes would flow from the setting, that's why I said it will essentially be the Age of Colonization redux. That should provide sufficient information for the how people would think and act, or at least provide a nice base to start from. However, since the timeframe isn't 100 years but far longer, everyone forgets about Earth as anything other than the place Humanity got started. Maybe as some point it becomes important again for the sake of its historical importance, but people will fail to care.

By the time the entire galaxy could be settled, there would have to be a great many worlds (systems) which had been settled by humans for hundreds or thousands of years. The population and industrial development of those worlds (or those entire star systems) would be pretty close to that of Earth (or Sol system).

Why wouldn't they have an equal share of power?

They should, but it's likely there will be the rise of some great stellar powers that will hold multiple systems in their sway given the speed of the FTL.

[AniThyng]

Whereas Pandora, Alpha Prime, Dragnox VIII or whatever becomes the new hub of humanity, Earth becomes as important as Cairo on the international stage.

Cairo is a city of moderate importance- it seems irrelevant if you live in the US, but so do a lot of the world's major cities. Most people don't care too much about cities on another continent, after all.

If you live in northern Africa or the 'historically Arab' parts of the Middle East, Cairo is one of the major urban centers of your 'world.' Large population, substantial universities and businesses- it's just a place of regional, not universal, importance.

Which, come to think of it, would be a plausible outcome for Earth, too...

Exactly, how many people, outside of those who live there or near there, care about Cleveland, Liverpool, Dresden, St. Petersburg?

Given the amount of coverage given to events in Cairo recently, it's not exactly obscure now is it? And most people have heard of those 4 cities, and isn't St. Petersburg Russia's second city?

Now if you'd said something like, Ipoh, Perak, Malaysia, now we're talking not significant on an international stage

[CaptainChewbacca]

"You've never been to Earth?! Oh you simply MUST go! Its got the feel of thousands of years of history everywhere you look! The animals, you can see where all our gengineered stock comes from and the FOOD! My God the food! Nothing is bioformed there, and the flavors are so much brighter.

For my money if you're going to go you need to visit London, New York (take the transocean tunnel), Havana or Miami for the clubs, and then do a couple of 'ancient' places like the pyramids or the Forbidden City, or I guess Macchu Picchu. Don't do hawaii, its overrated, but I guess Sydney or Manilla would be nice. At any rate stay at least a month, my parents wanted me to get a good education so I actually did 2 years of University on Earth in Boston, but I did plenty of sightseeing."

Probably something like that.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe at one point, Earth tried to conquer the colonies, and in return the colonies ended up burning Earth's surface into slag.

[Stark]

Maybe anywhere in the galaxy is better than here, so everyone who could leave did, making Earth a horrible backwater full of rednecks and luddities ignored by the human race at large outside of footnotes in textbooks!

[FaxModem1]

"You've never been to Earth?! Oh you simply MUST go! Its got the feel of thousands of years of history everywhere you look! The animals, you can see where all our gengineered stock comes from and the FOOD! My God the food! Nothing is bioformed there, and the flavors are so much brighter.

For my money if you're going to go you need to visit London, New York (take the transocean tunnel), Havana or Miami for the clubs, and then do a couple of 'ancient' places like the pyramids or the Forbidden City, or I guess Macchu Picchu. Don't do hawaii, its overrated, but I guess Sydney or Manilla would be nice. At any rate stay at least a month, my parents wanted me to get a good education so I actually did 2 years of University on Earth in Boston, but I did plenty of sightseeing."

Probably something like that.

I this.

[Shroom Man 777]

Earthlings could be regarded as bloody primitive savages who Space Eugenicists would consider to be backwards and under-evolved cavemen, and Earth itself could be a wartorn nation as the puny continent-spanning tribes and warlords there butcher each other in atrocities that the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a shit about. The only worthwhile export of that planet could be thousands of years-old artifacts where archaeologists and grave robbers from Alpha Centauri go and steal stuff from the ancient ruins of Washington D.C. or Tokyo or something.

Earthlings desperate to leave their planet could end up being trafficked to the rest of the galaxy, or sell themselves into prostitution or as Space Mail Order Wives or something.

People in Betelgeuse would bitch about refugees from Earth filling their cities. Earthlings would have trouble adapting to galactic society and would end up living in their own isolated backward communities in the ghettoes. Lots of folks would want to send the Earthlings back home. Andromedan vigilantes and sovereign citizens would try and shoot any illegal Earthlings crossing the Rio Grande stargate. But they'd end up being cheap labor - hiring illegal Earthlings to do menial labor like harvesting antimatter would be cheaper than manufacturing new robots for that task, and unlike robots which have actual rights, illegal Earthlings can't complain about harsh treatment by Weyland-Yutani cause their employers can easily space them cause Earthlings don't have any rights. People could do Space Amendment Solutions and shoot illegal Earthlings with their rayguns, the Space Constitution's Space Amendment was specifically made by the Founding Fatheroids so that the space colonists could form raygun-armed militias to repulse Earthcoats sent by the King of Earth to impose space taxes.

Yes.

There could be mass starvation as Earth's once-glourious globe-spanning megacities crumble and decay. The galaxy wouldn't care when the sun flares up and sends solar tsunamis that burn millions of Earthlings alive. There'd be a token effort at disaster relief, humanitarian goods and shit, but by and large nobody would give a fuck.

The future will be magnificent.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I this.

Thanks, its one of those off-the-cuff things that turned out really well.

[andrewgpaul]

Earthlings could be regarded as bloody primitive savages who Space Eugenicists would consider to be backwards and under-evolved cavemen, and Earth itself could be a wartorn nation as the puny continent-spanning tribes and warlords there butcher each other in atrocities that the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a shit about. The only worthwhile export of that planet could be thousands of years-old artifacts where archaeologists and grave robbers from Alpha Centauri go and steal stuff from the ancient ruins of Washington D.C. or Tokyo or something.

Earthlings desperate to leave their planet could end up being trafficked to the rest of the galaxy, or sell themselves into prostitution or as Space Mail Order Wives or something.

Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear and Jovian Chrinicles game settings both have Earth establishing colonies (in HG, in other systems, via jump gates, in JC on other planets in the solar system), then suffering from environmental disasters and/or global war. The Colonies got on with surviving, prospering and advancing, while Earth crawled back out from the rubble. a hundred (JC) or two thousand (HG) years later, Earth feels that it should be back in charge. The colonies disagree, leading to the conflict required for a wargame. In both settings, Earth isn't just throwing its weight around out of pride - it's seriously fucked, and a war of conquest is the only way it can see to get the resources required to stop the entire planet starving to death.

The Foundation trilogy had the origin of humanity simply forgotten. it wasn't even something most people were interested in, and the "origin question" was simply something for rich nobles to amuse themselves by pretending to be archaeologists and scientists. The mainstream theory was that humans had arisen in multiple places at once, across the galaxy. In Asimov's earlier Robots in Space stories, Earth was in a somewhat antagonistic relationship with its colonies - the colonists made extensive use of robots, and didn't much care for the more "luddite" views of the overpopulated Earth. In the end, the "robot colonies" became decadent and insular, and were leapfrogged by the second wave of colonisation that went on to become the Galactic Empire.