Has the Clan eugenics program actually worked?

[Vehrec]

In Battletech, the Clans have been practicing very basic eugenics, almost childishly so by some of the fluff for hundreds of years.

But does that really make their warriors better? The Elementals seem to have actually isolated the pituitary mutations that would make someone fucking huge, but I would have to guess that they probably have the associated heart problems that come from making a human being that scale. Aerospace pilots are arguably worse off than their baseline equivalents. And Mechwarriors....

Well, if you gave me a hundred orphans and let me train them relentlessly for more than a decade, removing the least-capable ones as I go until I have only five, I bet I could make 4-4 pilots too. So even if there is any benefit to the clan eugenics effort, is it worth all the effort, time and focus their culture places on it?

[Purple]

Well, not being a big BT fan I don't really know the correct or actual answer to this. But I will throw out a wild speculation that might be interesting. And that is that we must also look at the psychological part of it. As you said, their entire culture is focused around breeding and training the ultimate warriors. And that kind of focus, that self obsessed Spartan like ideal should have an interesting effect on the individuals. I mean, it should cause a society wide superiority complex to begin with. So even if there were no actual physical gains from it, the psychological gains would still make a difference.

[Rabid]

You mean that they would tend to systematically underestimate their opposition and getting their asses kicked for it ?

[VF5SS]

You'd think with all that selective breeding they'd be able to hit a 15 meter tall, nearly stationary robot from less than a mile away with lasers :v

I think it was just a cheap attempt to give them something more science fiction-y to their already bloated concept of Russian space viking furries trained since birth to conquer the hammer's slammers.

[Purple]

You mean that they would tend to systematically underestimate their opposition and getting their asses kicked for it ?

Yes, but they would also have superior morale and stuff. The fun part thou is that I imagine it would give them a double edged sword. On one hand, the more they win the more their morale would be hyped up (way more than for regular troops). And with every victory they would perpetuate the myth of the unbeatable claners. And than when someone defeats them, the weight of that defeat would be so overwhelming that they would run home and cry.

[VarrusTheEthical]

I would say that the Clan's practice of eugenics had little practical effect on their fighting prowess. It was not their breeding, but their technology that set them apart from the Inner Sphere powers. Technology such as Omni Mechs . Extended Range Lasers, and CASE (safer ammo storage), to name a few.

[Nephtys]

The Clan Aerospace Pilots have been said to be inferior in pretty much every source. This is while using superior equipment in both training and in threat and information presentation in their craft (limited enhanced imaging). So this pretty much says that branch of their eugenics program was a complete failure. Either that, or the clans insistance on low-bidding forces for warfare means they've always shortchanged their air support wing in favor of heavy infantry and mechs.

Clan Tankers are every bit as good as IS ones. That's while being treated as second hand rubbish by their commanders, and NOT being part of the major eugenics programs. So their training at least is up to par.

[Batman]

If anything their eugenics program has backfired on them thanks to the social stigma of not being Warrior class. We're looking at, what, 300 years of technological development, and their equipment was marginally better than StarLeague era tech. Maybe treating all the people who build, maintain and are supposed to improve your fighting machines like garbage wasn't such a hot idea.
Their initial superiority over the Inner Sphere was mostly due to the IS nations having spent a goodly portion of the last three centuries doing their level best to bomb each other back into the Stone Age.

[Broken]

There is also the problem of focusing on creating warriors as opposed to soldiers. The clans were initially successful due to their advantages of surprise and massive technological superiority. Sure, the long and dedicated training program created Mechwarriors better then any two Inner Sphere Mechwarriors. But once you reduce their advantages, that superior clansman found himself facing ten opponents who don't give a damn about his honor code and centuries of grinding warfare as their background rather then the quick, neat affairs the Clans aspired to.

[PainRack]

In Battletech, the Clans have been practicing very basic eugenics, almost childishly so by some of the fluff for hundreds of years.

But does that really make their warriors better? The Elementals seem to have actually isolated the pituitary mutations that would make someone fucking huge, but I would have to guess that they probably have the associated heart problems that come from making a human being that scale. Aerospace pilots are arguably worse off than their baseline equivalents. And Mechwarriors....

Well, if you gave me a hundred orphans and let me train them relentlessly for more than a decade, removing the least-capable ones as I go until I have only five, I bet I could make 4-4 pilots too. So even if there is any benefit to the clan eugenics effort, is it worth all the effort, time and focus their culture places on it?

You need to actually define the goals of the Clans Eugenics program, there were multiple goals afterall.

Nicholas Kerensky initial goal outside of social stratification and engineering was to rapidly expand the Clan population, something that the initial sibkos and etc provided.

We can't accurately track the date, but the trueborn superior over freeborn warriors is a later cultural insertion, as explained in Invading Clans sourcebook.

That becomes a bit dodgy. We have no comparison with Clan freeborns outside of Wolf Dragoons, and they are clearly superior to Inner Sphere Mechwarriors. Unfortunately, while drawn from the freeborn warrior population of Clan Wolf, we simply don't know if the Clans genetic engineering was stomatic or otherwise. There is no reason to assume that any manipulation they made WAS transferrable to the next generation, and clearly, the authors never really realised that either.

What we do know is that Clan warriors are on general better than the Inner Sphere, even those which practise draconician training practices such as the Warrior houses or DEST. To make things even more interesting,, even Clan Scientists themselves argue over the specifics of nature vs nurture in their training programes.

Just suffice to say that Clan Mechwarriors and even aerospace pilots have innate superiority over their Inner Sphere counterparts, but the Inner Sphere has a much larger "base" to draw upon so that they can throw up enough skilled pilots to match up against the "standard" Clanners. And at a certain point, reflexes, piloting senses and etc on the part of the mechwarrior disappears and tactics/technology are more important with regards to battle powress.

Also, Clan Elementals simply don't have the problems involved with gigantism, its stated in the Mechwarrior edition as the description of their characters. Giants like now, but without their health problems.

Seriously, look at my thread. I documented Terran Hegemony efforts at genetic engineering, where they created MERMAIDS. What always impressed me was that the initial tech teams the SL brought re-engineered Smoke Jaguars and a host of other animals to survive in the wild of Eden and etc. Such an effort could had only took them years at best, probably shorter given the history of the Smoke Jaguar.

And that kind of focus, that self obsessed Spartan like ideal should have an interesting effect on the individuals. I mean, it should cause a society wide superiority complex to begin with. So even if there were no actual physical gains from it, the psychological gains would still make a difference.

Well, the clans are much more willing to die in battle for victory compared to the Spheroids. So there's your complex:D

I'm seriously wondering how the FC civil war sourcebook attributes this to the Jade Falcon victories over the Spheroids, but its is the "best" explaination. While the Inner Sphere took weeks to win battles, the Clans won entire planetary battles in days.

If anything their eugenics program has backfired on them thanks to the social stigma of not being Warrior class. We're looking at, what, 300 years of technological development, and their equipment was marginally better than StarLeague era tech. Maybe treating all the people who build, maintain and are supposed to improve your fighting machines like garbage wasn't such a hot idea.

This WAS addressed, although I will note that the 3072 timeline has shit over MaxTech and older publications reasons. Namely, SL tech was hard to improve upon and the Clans grabbed the low-hanging tech gains easily.

[PainRack]

Please disregard my previous post, its rambling and a disorganised piece of crap.

In Battletech, the Clans have been practicing very basic eugenics, almost childishly so by some of the fluff for hundreds of years.

But does that really make their warriors better? The Elementals seem to have actually isolated the pituitary mutations that would make someone fucking huge, but I would have to guess that they probably have the associated heart problems that come from making a human being that scale. Aerospace pilots are arguably worse off than their baseline equivalents. And Mechwarriors....

Well, if you gave me a hundred orphans and let me train them relentlessly for more than a decade, removing the least-capable ones as I go until I have only five, I bet I could make 4-4 pilots too. So even if there is any benefit to the clan eugenics effort, is it worth all the effort, time and focus their culture places on it?

You need to define what is the Clans eugenics program first.

To clear up some stuff, the Clans have genetically engineered their soldiers, not just practice eugenics. Elementals don't suffer the problems from gigantism, as defined in Mechwarrior sourcebook. The scope of Star League genetic engineering can be found in the fact that they have engineered mermaids before. The Mechwarrior series, along with some offhand statements made in novels such as Star Lord reinforce the fact that Clan Mechwarriors do have superior reflexes and initative, something that's attributed to genetic engineering.

The Clan sibko program as stated also have multiple goals over the years. The initial plan was to create an elite warrior caste, in lieu of Kerensky social engineering as well as expand Clan population. The initial differences between trueborn and freeborn was not expressed in terms of ability, but rather in terms of freedom(at least, that's how I interprete it). For those who wish to see what I mean, check out the entry in Invading Clans sourcebook. So, the whole vatborn with their superior genes, etc is an expression of future Clan culture. It is only when the genetics is combined with Clan eugenics, as defined ni the nature vs nuture entry in Invading Clans(same entry re freeborn) that highlights this.


With that in mind, well, compare the results. The Inner Sphere own draconian training methods for the Warrior Houses and etc do not achieve similar capability as the Clan Mechwarriors. Inner Sphere elites are comparable to the "standard" Clan Mechwarrior. Clan Mechwarriors are stated to have superior reflexes and initative, although I will add in a later caveat. It is only the Clan Aerospace program which was stated to have failed. However, consider the context of the statement made in the TRO/Protomechs entry. It was stating that for all the huge genetic engineering done for the aerospace pilots, for all their "innate" comfort in a 3D environment and etc, Clan Aerospace pilots do not perform markably superior to IS pilots. I will point again to the actual combat records and suggest that considering the mechanics of AT game/Battlespace, Clan technologies do not provide as huge an advantage in the air as on the ground. Yet, Clan pilots have consistently punched above their weight. Clan Wolf Golden Keshik survived and won honours against the 1st Drakon initial assault on Dire Wolf, prior to other Clan naval aerospace forces arriving. Clan Ghost Bear has consistently defeated entire airwings in combat with the "small" air element assigned to a cluster. I would suggest that in terms of the entire eugenics program, Clan Aerospace pilots ARE superior to their Inner Sphere counterparts. Just not superior enough to justify the huge cost of the eugenics program.


And that brings me to the caveat. Its entirely possible that for all the small, minute advantages that Clan warriors have, in terms of reflexes, speed and even cognitive abilities, once you reach a certain tier, it simply doesn't affect combat in the 31st Century. And that the Inner Sphere with their larger base can discover enough skilled mechwarriors, or barring that, simply packing in more numbers via tanks to simply cancel out any innate superiority the Clans have.

The proof is ultimately in the pudding. Even in 3062 onwards, Clan forces consistently outperformed their Inner Sphere counterparts. This even as they threw in more "rookie" warriors, as did Clan Jade Falcon during the incursion. It would take Word of Blake own radical Shadow Divisions and their cyborg warriors to rival the Clans performance.

[Vehrec]

I feel that you're missing the point-I'm not questioning the superiority of the Clan warriors in general, but the usefulness of all the effort that has produced such marginal gains. As you said, a clan regular is about at the same level as an IS elite, but the numbers of the two are roughly equal and they would have approximately the same amount of training and battlefield experience, right? I did note that IF you took 100 and whittled those recruits to 5, you'd get the same level of performance without any of the silly vat-born stuff. And at the very top of the scale, the best Mechwarrior in existence is a Inner-sphere kid. So in the sense of 'create the best possible warrior of this or any generation' the Clans failed. What I'm really interested in would be the rejected clan warriors-the ones who failed out of sibko's at one or two years. How do they operate in comparison to Inner Sphere counterparts? This assumes of course that they are geuninely less fit for combat, and not simply randomly dropped.

Star-league genegenering is yet another example of things in Battletech that will give you a headache if you thing about it. They can make mermaids, but apparently nobody in the Draconis Combine ever thought to give themselves anime-hair with that. Where is my general with shock-pink punk hair? :p It's more accurate to say that if they can make mermaids and elementals who defy the law of gravity and aerospace jocks who don't, why hasn't some mad scientist taken over with his doctor Moreau creatures yet? Why choose minor tweaks instead of systemic upgrades? Nerves and bone and muscle are hardly the most efficient ways to build something out of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, so why are the Clanners still made of the normal human stuff?

[VF5SS]

Isn't this just another example of the game designers didn't think anything through?

Cuz that seems to be a theme with these threads.

[PainRack]

Well, that's just it. Clan warriors are stated to have superior reflexes and initative compared to IS mechwarriors, what we can't definitely say is how significant this is outside of game terms and this is the result of genetic engineering.

As for the cost, the answer is there. The Clan Aerospace pilot program is stated to have failed, and in context, this is due to the huge cost involved compared with the relatively marginal results obtained.

And at the very top of the scale, the best Mechwarrior in existence is a Inner-sphere kid. So in the sense of 'create the best possible warrior of this or any generation' the Clans failed. What I'm really interested in would be the rejected clan warriors-the ones who failed out of sibko's at one or two years. How do they operate in comparison to Inner Sphere counterparts? This assumes of course that they are geuninely less fit for combat, and not simply randomly dropped.

Kai Allard feats are rivalled by Natasha Kerensky or even Aidan Pryde.... It just shows how "marginal" abilities become once you reach the extreme top tier. And what is obvious is that the very top tier can be reached outside of genetic engineering.

As for secondline mechwarriors, on a comparative nature vis a vis IS warriors, they are also "qualitatively" better. They however suffer immensely from neglect, from equipment to supplies and presumably training. Yet, secondline forces in combat against frontline IS troops have generally achieved similar odds in victory if supported. Epilison galaxy and etc.

As for minor tweaks, are we looking at the same pictures of aerospace jocks?

[Vehrec]

Unless I mention a specific phenotype, you should probably assume that I'm just talking about mechwarriors in general, since they're the soul and center of the entire setting.

As for the top teir being incredibly marginal, that's kind of the point. You would expect, if the Clan techniques genuinely raised the baseline and the maximum level, that the clans would have their best pilots outperform the inner sphere's best by a similar margin. Instead, they're approximately equal. So, they've either neglected the top-tier of performance, or they've simply eliminated the bottom part of the bell curve. Every clan warrior goes through huge amounts training, testing, and trials before they even get a chance to try out for a mech, right? And the majority fail out somewhere in there. That's not nature vs nurture, that's stacking the deck if you do it right.

[PainRack]

Ever heard of the saying that a superb swordsman can be defeated by 3 skilled warriors? Or any of the equivalent?

If the question is whether the Clans program has produced the "best" mechwarrior, again, a simple comparison of Natasha Kerensky versus Kai Allard Liao, or any of the other "elites" would produce similar results, APART from the supernatural Morgan Kell. Well, apart from Aidan Pryde, but I would argue based on the Tukayid sourcebook that Aidan WAS exhibiting partial phantom mech ability. The "sanctioned" Comstar reason for Praeshaw offering targeting guidance is bullshit. Its just how "marginal" skill is in combat, similar to how even in the world of real life fighter pilots, comparison between elites become extremely marginal and situational.


If we are talking about whether the Clan military has produced better warriors, well, the proof IS in the pudding. In every arena, even in aerospace where if we follow game mechanics, the Clan loses most of its range advantages, the Clans have fought "better".

As for the rest of the issues,note that the Clans themselves are actually quite leery of modifying the actual genes of their bloodlines. Its why the Twycross scenario features Clan officers who have the splitting resemblence of their Star League officers.
Phelan Kell asserts

Likewise, they rarely use gene modification to modify physical or mental traits.

in The Clans, Warriors of Kerensky.

Despite knowledge of how to remove recessive genetic disease and the like, their eugenics program is well......... Eugenics. Genetic engineering to be sure, since they can use females to serve as "gene-fathers" and males as "gene-mothers", and Kell gives an example of how two females birthing a sibko will have the genetic bloodname heritage calculated.

[PainRack]

ignore this/

[MKSheppard]

Star-league genegenering is yet another example of things in Battletech that will give you a headache if you thing about it. They can make mermaids, but apparently nobody in the Draconis Combine ever thought to give themselves anime-hair with that. Where is my general with shock-pink punk hair? :p

Wait what? They can do that kind of gene-engineering, but can't outperform the Clanners' laughably haphazard eugenics programmes?

[Simon_Jester]

If I remember rightly:

The Star League was the technological peak of interstellar civilization in the Battletech universe. That went to shit in a big way, with lots of internecine warfare, roughly two or three centuries before the "present" in which the ongoing plot take place. So the "Inner Sphere" of civilization is still picking up the pieces from that- there's all kinds of stuff developed in the high days of the League that is now "lostech," in that either the secret of making it is lost, or that there's no infrastructure to build it with.

Making mermaids probably qualifies as "lostech," assuming no one's done it recently.

Meanwhile, the Clanners bailed out right around the end of the Star League, when the bulk of the League's military deserted en masse and ran off to go be a Proud Warrior Race somewhere out in the middle of nowhere. So the baseline of their genetic engineering would be defined in those terms. The question is, how much of the gene-manipulation technology did they actually take with them, and how much did they bother to maintain over the centuries?

[PainRack]

Star-league genegenering is yet another example of things in Battletech that will give you a headache if you thing about it. They can make mermaids, but apparently nobody in the Draconis Combine ever thought to give themselves anime-hair with that. Where is my general with shock-pink punk hair? :p

Wait what? They can do that kind of gene-engineering, but can't outperform the Clanners' laughably haphazard eugenics programmes?

Errr......... They do. The whole Elemental and aerospace pilots phenotype?

Not to mention regrowing lost limbs, although there appears to be a huge cost and limitations on that given the use of cybernetic limbs.

The Clans eugenics program is ideological, not some rational scientific process intended to design the ultimate soldier. Again, Phelan talks about the Clans

Likewise, they rarely use gene modification to modify physical or mental traits.

And we learn from Clan Hell Horse that the Clans also disdain cybernetic limbs. This applies even in other conditions. For example,cybernetic myomer limbs are used to create special forces in House Liao, but this is rejected by the majority of the other Houses, even though Loki has no qualms with domestic terrorism and suicide missions.

[PainRack]

Meanwhile, the Clanners bailed out right around the end of the Star League, when the bulk of the League's military deserted en masse and ran off to go be a Proud Warrior Race somewhere out in the middle of nowhere. So the baseline of their genetic engineering would be defined in those terms. The question is, how much of the gene-manipulation technology did they actually take with them, and how much did they bother to maintain over the centuries?

The baseline was that they artificially engineered entire Terran species and flora to survive and intergrete into the ecosytem on Eden and other worlds within years. Smoke Jaguars, Ghost Bears are transplanted, genetically modified species.

The problem is we don't know the extent of what this means. The civil war that sparked up around Alexender Kerensky last days and his death supposedly trashed the fragile ecosystem and cities, suggesting that there was a degree of artificial intervention in the worlds, but those worlds were still intact enough to feature cities and populations.

They do retain and built on their medical tech, to the extent that

The Clans can sustain an injured warrior indefinitely, and can regrow or rebuild destroyed limbs.

The Clans, Warriors of Kerensky. Which means stem cell therapy and genetic engineering on an adult.

[PainRack]

Since this point seems to have been missed.

Gene-splicing and chromosome modification ensures an equal balance of males and females born to each house,........To them, modifying chromosomes to determine sex is a primitive application of their knowledge. They can take DNA strands from two individuals and use recombinant techniques to splice them into sperm and ova gametes, creating a zygote irrespective of the gender of the donors.

Sex selection, choice, and other examples of genetic engineering.

In general, however, the Clans prefer not to meddle too much with nature, and so most often use simple in-vitro fertilization techniques.Likewise, they rarely use gene modification to modify physical or mental traits. Instead, they tend to use genetic engineering simply to identify and correct adverse recessive traits.

Their eugenics program and the actual use of genetic engineering in it is restricted to removing chromosomal disease.Again, the limits is cultural as opposed to technological.

no mention of cogenital diseases though.... perhaps they are aborted?

In most cases, Clan scientists allow nature to "take its course,"albeit in a laboratory.

Again, the extent of Clan culture and the limitations they place on genetic engineering in their eugenics program.

Also, technically, the technoloogy to grow mermaids were from Terran Hegemony days and occured out in the Periphery, the boondecks of technology and industry.Well, they were found in the Periphery, no mention of where they were made though. No telling how some rich circus traipising through the Inner Sphere decided to make a couple of mermaids and then dump them in New Hedon.

[VF5SS]

You're very good at quoting obscure fluff text, Painrack-kun. However the strength of your sources seems kind of shakey.

Since this point seems to have been missed.

Gene-splicing and chromosome modification ensures an equal balance of males and females born to each house,........To them, modifying chromosomes to determine sex is a primitive application of their knowledge. They can take DNA strands from two individuals and use recombinant techniques to splice them into sperm and ova gametes, creating a zygote irrespective of the gender of the donors.

Sex selection, choice, and other examples of genetic engineering.

I'm not expert, but I'm fairly certain we can do effectively the same thing as this now. We've been doing this with sheep and other animals, ya know? Like I can't understand what this is saying directly because I don't think the author understands genetics.

[Simon_Jester]

Meanwhile, the Clanners bailed out right around the end of the Star League, when the bulk of the League's military deserted en masse and ran off to go be a Proud Warrior Race somewhere out in the middle of nowhere. So the baseline of their genetic engineering would be defined in those terms. The question is, how much of the gene-manipulation technology did they actually take with them, and how much did they bother to maintain over the centuries?

The baseline was that they artificially engineered entire Terran species and flora to survive and intergrete into the ecosytem on Eden and other worlds within years. Smoke Jaguars, Ghost Bears are transplanted, genetically modified species.

The problem is we don't know the extent of what this means. The civil war that sparked up around Alexender Kerensky last days and his death supposedly trashed the fragile ecosystem and cities, suggesting that there was a degree of artificial intervention in the worlds, but those worlds were still intact enough to feature cities and populations.

Yes- but advanced laboratories are going to be an early casualty of war, and the Clan social system does not lend itself to preserving the highest levels of scientific thought, if that knowledge is not of clear military worth. Since the clans want to breed for great warriors but don't actually want to do gene-tampering past a certain point, they may have let the technology to do major genetic modification atrophy.

The Clans' reproductive medicine is damned impressive. I can't think of a feat more difficult than creating a child from the merged genes of two males, the entire natural biology is fighting against you. Their medical technology is impressive, with regeneration- that may be related, if one of the retained techniques involves impressing DNA onto a tabula rasa of stem cells...

But I don't know if they actively retained the ability to modify their people's DNA.

They do retain and built on their medical tech, to the extent that

The Clans can sustain an injured warrior indefinitely, and can regrow or rebuild destroyed limbs.

The Clans, Warriors of Kerensky. Which means stem cell therapy and genetic engineering on an adult.

Stem cell therapy or its equivalent, anyway. But the technology to do that is a far cry from being able to reliably engineer viable DNA changes into an organism- you can have one without the other.

I take it the inner systems do not have this ability?

Also, technically, the technoloogy to grow mermaids were from Terran Hegemony days and occured out in the Periphery, the boondecks of technology and industry.Well, they were found in the Periphery, no mention of where they were made though. No telling how some rich circus traipising through the Inner Sphere decided to make a couple of mermaids and then dump them in New Hedon.

Erm, I'm rather confused. Could you explain the story in a little more detail, perhaps with rough time periods inserted? I know very little of the Battletech timeline and am only vaguely aware of the major players because Steve is a friend of mine.

[PainRack]

You're very good at quoting obscure fluff text, Painrack-kun. However the strength of your sources seems kind of shakey.

I'm not expert, but I'm fairly certain we can do effectively the same thing as this now. We've been doing this with sheep and other animals, ya know? Like I can't understand what this is saying directly because I don't think the author understands genetics.

Well..... not exactly.
Maeve Wolf is an example of such technology, and is even more....... interesting because she's apparently a full clone of Jamie Wolf. God knows how they made a clone of Jamie Wolf and made him a her, but hey, genetic engineering!

In real life, we can't do what the Clans can do. YET. Our ability to do sex selection is limited to PGD and via this, implanting selected sex embryoes. The Clans splice the chromosomes itself to actually just get an equal mix of male and female children.
http://articles.cnn.com/2005-11-16/heal ... =PM:HEALTH


IRL, of course, what we're seeing is the rapid pace of genetic technology. I not able to actually date the Warriors of Kerensky sourcebook, but it came out before 2002 or so, and the most "advanced" bit of genetic tech in the news was Dolly. We are very well able to achieve the clans "primitive" grasp of genetic technology soon and the second part isn't going to be more difficult once we can do this.

Hell, considering my source article is 6 years old, its probably obsolete now. And entirely off topic, I lost the debate topic today that parents should be allowed to use reproductive technologies to produce designer babies, including selecting the sex of their babies.

Yes- but advanced laboratories are going to be an early casualty of war, and the Clan social system does not lend itself to preserving the highest levels of scientific thought, if that knowledge is not of clear military worth. Since the clans want to breed for great warriors but don't actually want to do gene-tampering past a certain point, they may have let the technology to do major genetic modification atrophy.

Well.... we can't tell if they can create mermaids, but Snow Raven scientist caste retained the idle scientific curiousity to just engineer a predator, Diamond Shark. So, they haven't let this area of science just wither away.

The Clans' reproductive medicine is damned impressive. I can't think of a feat more difficult than creating a child from the merged genes of two males, the entire natural biology is fighting against you.

not really. Splice your genes into the egg, splice the other into the sperm, that's it. There isn't any real genetic difference in the chromosomes other than X-Y, the only real difficulty is that the Clans need to filter out fertilised Y-Y embryoes..... for all I know, this is already done naturally.

But I don't know if they actively retained the ability to modify their people's DNA.

Err...... they definitely DID. Again, the ability to create both the aerospace pilot phenotype and the Elemental phenotype, within decades for the Elemental is proof positive that they can do this.

I take it the inner systems do not have this ability?

Its not mentioned. The Inner Sphere has the ability to reattach limbs, but otherwise, they focus mostly on using myomer muscle implants to recreate lost limbs/muscles, how they innervate it is unknown. Surgical means as opposed to regeneration.

More details

Cloning limbs is a time-consuming process, however. Even with advanced hormones and nutrients, growing a replacement limb can take anywhere from a week(for ears and noses) to three months(for arms and legs).In the mean time, the wound where the limb is to be placed cannot be allowed to fully heal.

Lostech, the Mechwarrior Equipment Guide.
They grow the limb, and then they reattach it. For purposes of graftment, they refer to the fact that the limb cannot have scar tissue since such tissue is nonfunctional.

Erm, I'm rather confused. Could you explain the story in a little more detail, perhaps with rough time periods inserted? I know very little of the Battletech timeline and am only vaguely aware of the major players because Steve is a friend of mine.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 5&start=50

Over at Mercedes Fall, you can find mermaids-real, live, biologically engineered half-Human/half-fish people.

Accessory the Periphery.
Nothing much more to tell, just a letter telling you about life out in the Periphery, specifically in the state Magistracy of Canopus. The timeline is in 2547,
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Timeline
That's during the Age of war, and nine years before the Star League came into being.