OVB5 Fall of Night

[Ahriman238]

Chuck covers the end of season 2 B5 here.

Man, I remember actually wincing when the man said "peace in our time." Same with "I'm from the new Ministry of Peace, or MiniPax, as we call it around the office." In a show I loved for it's subtle character studies and shade-of-grey morality, everyone from the Earth Alliance from season 2 on was so cartoonishly evil I'm half suprised they didn't laugh manically to the sound of thunder.

[CaptainChewbacca]

They were cartoonishly evil because they'd kicked out everyone that wan't.

[Crazedwraith]

I enjoyed Chuck's review. Despite never seeing any B5. Is that wrong?

I also enjoy your title. OVB5? Opinionated Voyager Babylon 5? The correct acronym for an 'opinionated Babylon 5 episode guide' would be 'OB5EG'.

[Batman]

'Opinionated Views on B5' perhaps? And I love the 'I apologize' speech by Sheridan.
And how was the EA cartoonishly evil? Take a look at real world fascist governments and tell me that's not what the Clark administration was modeled on.

[jollyreaper]

Look at the orwellian shit that came out of the Bush admin.

The torture episode with Sherridan, that was based directly on what happened in Cambodia. While it is in a scifi context, it's not anything that's never happened before, not unbelievable in that sense. His rescue was but not the way the interrogation and torture was handled.

[Skylon]

'Opinionated Views on B5' perhaps? And I love the 'I apologize' speech by Sheridan.
And how was the EA cartoonishly evil? Take a look at real world fascist governments and tell me that's not what the Clark administration was modeled on.

As Chuck noticed in this review, one of the Ministry of Peace dudes in "Fall of Night" you could argue was borderline cartoonish, the other guy is genuinely convinced he's out there to achieve "peace in our time." He talks about how there has been enough death from war, about building a better world for his grandchildren, etc.

I always thought there was a good mix of people who were loyal to Clark - ranging from fanatics, to people who felt the military's job was to follow the President's orders, to those who felt they were doing what was best for Earth.

[folti78]

I always thought there was a good mix of people who were loyal to Clark - ranging from fanatics, to people who felt the military's job was to follow the President's orders, to those who felt they were doing what was best for Earth.

Sheridan's torturer in season 4 partly based on the last one, with the other part being the average dude who's got a job to do. But then, JMS modelled Clark's regime on real mid-XX century totalitarian regimes.

[jollyreaper]

And the paranoia of Homeguard is completely believable. Given that the entire human race was nearly wiped out by the Minbari, every nation on the planet would feel a sense of existential crisis that would not abate for generations. It's completely believable for Earth to want to put forward a robust and muscular face to the rest of the galaxy. It's also even more likely that we would leap at any opportunity to enhance our strength, even more than we would normally be inclined to do. Reactionary conservatism and paranoia are a very short leap.

And remember, there are real life people who seem like cartoons. Hippolyte Acouturier was a real cyclist.



You'd never guess he was involved in a cheating scandal.

[Ahriman238]

I thought Chuck's reviews all had 'Ov' for Opinonated Viewer. Live and learn, I guess.

Even if some people are cartoonish, I imagine if I ever became head of a totalitarian regime I would somehow see to it that I didn't surround my government with George Orwell references. And even as a purely practical concern, the Centauri, a long-term trading partner of the EA is menacing the LONAW, another long-term trading partner and their allies in the Dilgar war. Plus the Centauri have conquered and are brutalizing the Narn, the only ones to help Earth in the Minbari war, granted they profitted greatly from it. Why is Clark's regime supporting the Centauri here?

[Batman]

Err-the V in OVEG stands for 'VOY' you know. As in 'opinionated Voyager Episode Guide'? Notice how all his reviews appear as OVEG in the browser? Chances are he labels them as that out of habit by now what with having started with VOY.

Why is Clark's regime supporting the Centauri here?

You apparently haven't watched B5 in its entirety. I can tell you right now, or you can wait until you get around to the relevant episodes.

[Ahriman238]

I have. I presume you're talking about the Clark regime's vague relationship with the Shadows, where as far as I can tell they supplied humans to run the Shadow's ships in exchange for intelligence and the possibility of getting their hands on Shadow tech (though there was already research into the ship on mars.)

Even in that context I have a bit of trouble beliving though, because Clark, who built so much support around fear of the xenos menace, has zero reason to trust the Shadows. And unlike Londo, he isn't really desperate enough to jump into a relationship with mysterious anonymous 'friends.'

[Batman]

Err-it's pretty clear from the series that the 'xenos menace' was something manufactured to strengthen Clark's rule, not something he actually believed in. And we know he trusted the Shadows, at least to the extent that he trusted Morden. Remember how the man became president to begin with?
And why would the Shadows figure into the EA's manufactured xenophobia when not only hardly anybody knew about their existence but the EA did their level best to suppress any knowledge about them in s2?

[folti78]

Even if some people are cartoonish, I imagine if I ever became head of a totalitarian regime I would somehow see to it that I didn't surround my government with George Orwell references.

Depends how relevant Orwell in the B5's 23rd century. Since nobody ever made the connection on screen (and the characters had the "umm yeah, stupid/interesting name" reaction at best), I think only the few people interested in 20th century literature and history know any details of his work. The general public (Clark and his cronies included) being ignorant on the matter. Out of universe it's big neon warning sign, but only because Orwell's work is still influental part of western culture.

And even as a purely practical concern, the Centauri, a long-term trading partner of the EA is menacing the LONAW, another long-term trading partner and their allies in the Dilgar war. Plus the Centauri have conquered and are brutalizing the Narn, the only ones to help Earth in the Minbari war, granted they profitted greatly from it. Why is Clark's regime supporting the Centauri here?

The LONAW is a loose federation of minor and insignificant powers and you can trade with them even when they are under Centauriopressionprotection. The Narn were as supportive to EA as your average black market weapons merchant. Your PR department can paint them as one. Meanwhile the Centauri is one of the biggest and meanest kid in the block, you don't want to mess with.