How fast to dodge a bullet

[gamer]

This is a random question but how fast does one have to move to dodge bullets? I see bullet dodging alot in fiction ranging from dodging the guy's aim (I wouldn't call this true bullet dodging) to matrix style dodging bullets all the way to dodging automatic gunfire at point blank range in tight spaces like hallways.

[mr friendly guy]

Why don't you work this out yourself using a few assumptions and variables. For example

1. velocity of the bullet
2. "average" distance the bullet is fired from
3. Calculate the time to reach the target based on the above
4. Assume the bullet is accurate to dead centre (so the character must move the maximum distance to dodge)
5. Guess the distance required to move so that the bullet doesn't touch any part of the body. Assume a normal size person, so they only need to move say 30 cm.
6. Work out the speed to move based on a) the person reacts at the same time the bullet is fired, so he has the same time but to cover a smaller distance.

[gamer]

To dodge bullets at point blank range you need to move at a speed in the hundreds of kilometers per hour. That's pretty impressive acceleration, not to mention insanely powerful reflexes (around single millisecond range I believe). I wonder what kind of body you would need to move at that kind of speed?

[HMS Conqueror]

Another problem is how do you know someone has shot you? The sound will arrive after the bullet. So seeing the flash, and then the processing delay before you act, is quite significant here. You also have to be directly facing your assailant.

At the range, you probably don't know if he was going to hit you anyway. The whole thing is sadly nonsensical.

[dragon]

There are a few subsonic types of ammo so they are quiter. Also can you see the gun or more precisely his hand as he starts the squeeze.

[gamer]

Another problem is how do you know someone has shot you? The sound will arrive after the bullet. So seeing the flash, and then the processing delay before you act, is quite significant here. You also have to be directly facing your assailant.

At the range, you probably don't know if he was going to hit you anyway. The whole thing is sadly nonsensical.

So you need superhuman senses as well to be able to actually detect when you are being shot and sense the bullet in flight coming towards you to dodge it or have an extremely accurate guess of its flight path. Your brain needs to be working at speeds far greater than any normal human to even know when to actually start trying to dodge the bullet. I wonder how long would it take for someone to process the muzzle flash from a gun to know they are being shot at?

[Connor MacLeod]

If you have superhuman senses you can probably dodge before the bullet is even fired. Unless the guy has vastly better reflexes than you (and can outrace the gun itself) he'll miss.

Also there's limits to just how fast you can move due to things like ground friction and the like which invariably means you're using some sort of magic TK effect to move the body to dodge gunfire. Which then requires explanation of why you can't just use magic forcefields to deflect the bullet (which is much smaller than the body.) or create some sort of barrier for the bullet to richochet off of.)

To get an example of what is being talked about (and the problems therein) look at this thread here. Mike covered handling subsonic bullets at a relatively short range (and outlined the problems I mentioned above - which is where I learned it obviously.)

[Ford Prefect]

Also there's limits to just how fast you can move due to things like ground friction and the like which invariably means you're using some sort of magic TK effect to move the body to dodge gunfire.

You don't necessarily need to invoke 'magic telekinesis', or indeed any other mechanism, because the mechanism is likely to be totally irrelevant.

[Batman]

To the question of 'how fast do I need to be to dodge a bullet of x speed at a distance of y', absolutely. The mechanism does become relevant for the followup question 'so how exactly does one move that fast?'

[gamer]

I heard there will be a problem with friction if you want to be able to move possibly several hundred kilometers per hour in order to dodge bullets at close range assuming you have muscles that strong forgive me I'm a bit rusty on my physics but why would friction be an issue? Also if your muscles were capable of propelling you at such speeds how strong would your body have to be in order to survive this? And while we are talking about strength I heard it should be impossible to lift and throw objects significantly heavier than you like how alot of superheroes do but shouldn't the only requirement be for feats of strength like that be superhuman muscles and a superhuman body strong enough not to fall apart due to said superhuman muscles?

[Batman]

The problem is that kind of superhuman physiology is not possible. There's only so much the human body can do, and moving at those speeds, or lifting that kind of weight, is massively outside what the human body can do.

[Parallax]

One of, at least in comic books, the weirdest examples of bullet dodging characters is the Cassandra Cain version of Batgirl. Thanks to the power of Google (All Praise to the Hypno-Engine), there are scans of some of them...

A bit of weird perspective on this one, distance could be worked out if you remember Cassandra is about a 5'4" teenage girl.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... girl18.jpg

More bullet dodging, though you can't tell how far away the shooter is it's telling that the red targetting dot is on the target:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7682/24206662.png

The last is the most implausible. I couldn't find a scan of the aftermath of this confrontation:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/76 ... _super.jpg
But it has her calmly standing there with bullet holes in the wall directly behind her in a manner which shows she had to have dodged them (or become intangible).

EDIT:
I did find the aftermath shot afterall:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/20 ... _super.jpg

[gamer]

One of, at least in comic books, the weirdest examples of bullet dodging characters is the Cassandra Cain version of Batgirl. Thanks to the power of Google (All Praise to the Hypno-Engine), there are scans of some of them...

A bit of weird perspective on this one, distance could be worked out if you remember Cassandra is about a 5'4" teenage girl.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... girl18.jpg

More bullet dodging, though you can't tell how far away the shooter is it's telling that the red targetting dot is on the target:
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7682/24206662.png

The last is the most implausible. I couldn't find a scan of the aftermath of this confrontation:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/76 ... _super.jpg
But it has her calmly standing there with bullet holes in the wall directly behind her in a manner which shows she had to have dodged them (or become intangible).

EDIT:
I did find the aftermath shot afterall:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/20 ... _super.jpg

I've seen far more extreme, in the anime Blood+, Diva(vampire queen) is easily quite capable of dodging automatic weapons fire from multiple opponents in tight ship corridors, but the level of bullet dodging displayed by batgirl in that comic is what I am talking about is there anyway it could be possible (except for the last picture)? Also when I say possible I know it isn't humanly possible but could anything move that fast without breaking the laws of physics?

[Batman]

Um-that's superhero comics. Which we already know essentially tell physics to get lost. Solar powered planet moving guy in red and blue tights anyone? I was under the impression this was about what would be needed to be able to dodge a bullet in the real world.
And just for the record, not a single one of those images shows Cassie dodging bullets. They merely show the shooter missing.

[gamer]

Um-that's superhero comics. Which we already know essentially tell physics to get lost. Solar powered planet moving guy in red and blue tights anyone? I was under the impression this was about what would be needed to be able to dodge a bullet in the real world.
And just for the record, not a single one of those images shows Cassie dodging bullets. They merely show the shooter missing.

Yes, what would be needed to be capable of dodging bullets without breaking the laws of physics. The bullet dodger doesn't have to be human as we all know humans can't dodge bullets but what about some sort of mutant animal or combat robot could they be made to dodge bullets?

I don't know about you but the comic seemed to be pretty clear in showing bullet dodging.

[Batman]

Um-no? All that shows is Cassie not being where the bullets ended up. That's easily doable by dodging the shooter's aim (which would, incidentally, coincide well with the description of her powers at the time, which was knowing what her opponent would do next before they did). No bullet already in flight dodging needed.

[gamer]

Um-no? All that shows is Cassie not being where the bullets ended up. That's easily doable by dodging the shooter's aim (which would, incidentally, coincide well with the description of her powers at the time, which was knowing what her opponent would do next before they did). No bullet already in flight dodging needed.

In the picture the bullet is already in flight and you see it coming towards her and in the next panel it has missed. Then there is the craziest one the last picture where she somehow dodges every round fired from a revolver that is only inches from her head.

Also notice the red dot on her head the shooter is actually quite accurate he just can't hit her.

[Batman]

Erm-you do know that to assume that to be the same bullet it would have to move not inconsiderably laterally and for the finial hit, vertically?

[mr friendly guy]

I assume they were different bullets, because the "spakk" sign indicating where the bullet hit corresponded to the location of the bullet from the previous frame.

[Ford Prefect]

The mechanism does become relevant for the followup question 'so how exactly does one move that fast?'

But why would you ask that question?

[Batman]

This is a trick question, right? Why would one not? It's an obviously moot question in an in-universe superhero context, because there people moving at reasonable fractions of/multiples of a c is a given anyway. It did seem, however, at least initially, that the OP was about how that would work (if at all) involving real-world physics.

[gamer]

This is a trick question, right? Why would one not? It's an obviously moot question in an in-universe superhero context, because there people moving at reasonable fractions of/multiples of a c is a given anyway. It did seem, however, at least initially, that the OP was about how that would work (if at all) involving real-world physics.

yes I am asking how fast would one have to move to dodge a bullet, and how is this possible in the real-world, and by possible it doesn't have to be possible for humans but is it possible at all provided the being dodging bullets is human sized and has muscles strong enough to exert the amount of force needed to move at bullet dodging speeds or is this not possible at all and just a violation of our current understanding of physics.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm of two minds on it. On one hand the 'reacting faster than the guy firing' approach is actually the best, becuase its not too complictated nor inefficient, especially for a normal person. However, I am not sure it could cover all cases or eventualities, or approaches, which creates problems (either because the evidence doesn't support prediction - it actually contradicts it, or differences in approach to evidence/methodology.) depending on the source/example.

Example: In the series Trigun Vash the stampede is noted for dodging bullets. This isn't any sort of super-speed magic forcefield assisted dodging type or anything like thta. IIRC it's even flat out stated he's basically out-reacting the guy and dodging before he fires. I dont know if the visual evidence supports that or not (I wouldn't count on it) but in the context of trigun you could make arguments for that theory to work out.

Counterexample: The movie blade had Deacon Frost being shot at by blade from a short distance and avoiding gunfire. I dont think he actually stepped aside so much as ducked, but the bullets were clearly in the air before he dodges. This is alot messier (there's the issue of him holding the hostage for one thing) but you can't argue 'preemtpive dodge' without basically ignoring what is shown or otherwise creatively reinterpreting it. Whether or nt that is neccesary is up for debate, and its likely to garner arguments if it didn't.

It can probably be even more complicated depending on example, but that's just the point. If we were talking about an 'original' fic I'd say the predictive dodge is the best approach. You could probably work up other 'countermeasures' depending on the setting and what you're working with and make things work, though. One interesting idea as an explanation for 'ignoring visuals' was that mind control or illusion might be involved as some sort of 'ECM' like effect - basically made to shoot at a place where the target might not actually be, or screwing with perceptions, or something similar - but that would require the existence of some sort of telepathic or mind control abilities as well.

In any case the important thing is probably that while 'actually dodging a projectile' is an option, its not neccesarily the only one.

[weemadando]

The acceleration and deceleration involved in dodging like in those panels would be a recipe for instance TBI (not you mention other complications). In fact, it's probably in the instant death range.

Congratulations you've dodged yourself to death.

[Revy]

There's a good example of bullet dodging in Resident Evil 5 with Wesker. He moves so fast when he dodges bullets that he turns invisible. The most insane instance was on the bomber at the end - Chris shoots him at near point-blank range while he's slowly walking towards him, and he blink/sidesteps the bullets and just calmly keeps walking. I think he just ignores things like inertia. On the plus side though, he does have his limits - if you shoot him unawares he doesn't dodge, so he does have to be aware of the bullet to dodge it.