You lead a Socialist Invasion of Planet Libertopia (RAR!)

[Zor]

n this scenario it is the year 1190 After Tranqulity (3159 CE) and you are an Admiral of the Fleet of the People's Star Navy of the Union of Socialist Worlds. In the ongoing war of Liberation against the Holy Dominion of Lutheria, one of few allies Lutherians is now targeted for conquest. The Freehold of Galt has been sending out forces of "Freedom's Vanguards" (badly trained units of over enthusiastic young men with rifles and flak vests) to assist the vile theocrats against the "Statist Aggressor", now it is time to deal with this threat, as well as providing resources and raw materials to their war effort. You have been assigned to Liberate this world from its own backwardsness and rebuild it into a prosperous proper socialist state.

Your forces include
The Fleet: Four Yuri Gagarin class Dreadnoughts, Eight Eugine Victor Debs class Heavy Cruisers, Twenty Vanguard of Liberation class Destroyers, Forty Two Xiwei class Frigates and a complement of 384 SfiG-25 Akula Space Superiority Fighter. More than enough to destroy the pathetic collection of old corvettes and modified cargo freighters that the Galtians called their navy. That said, use of orbital bombardment for indiscriminate destruction of the population is not authorized. This also contains your flagship, which has some rather nice quarters for you as you oversee the planet's military forces alongside the second in command PSMC Continental Marshall Nova Yangli. The main job of the fleet is to keep out

There also are a number of troopships containing hundreds of landing barges to unfurl the forces that will rebuild this state.

The Invasion/occupation Force

• 2,000,000 People's Space Marine Corps troopers using KSrX-25 Emancipator power armor. It weighs 600 kilos, can hover a meter above the ground and carry its user for a kilometer at 300 km/s and can resist anything short of heavy machine gun fire, which it can take a few rounds of in certain areas (the head and the joints are the most vulnerable). The standard model is equipped with a ALS-40 Laser Repeater capable of 600 60kj pulses per minute that can fire continuously for 15 minutes and a secondary 30kj semi auto laser pistol, but these suits can also be outfitted with 15mm Rail sniper Rifles that can threaten APCs, GS-14 Vulcan Plasma throwers (range 20 meters), 40mm automatic grenade launchers and two missile ranks each with six anti-tank, artillery or anti-aircraft missiles. These soldiers are trained in basic policing to help with occupation and among them are some seasoned veterans.
• 175,000 PSMC Spetsnaz: Elite Special Forces. Hard ass motherfuckers that are good as acting as a surgeon's knife when a sledgehammer is not appropriate . They are given KSrX-25/A suits, more expensive to make but outfitted with a shield generator making it somewhat more durable in firefights, even if the shield can only last about 15 minutes. They also each have a KSrX-24 stealthsuit. This suit only weighs sixty kilos and can not skim, but it is equipped with a thermoptic stealth system allowing it to turn invisible to anyone not wearing special goggles, still provides a decent level of protection and enhanced strength. Stealthsuit weapons include the ALS-42 60kj Laser repeater (with a 600rpm rate of fire and 100 shot power cells), 10mm Gauss rifles and rocket launchers.
• 1,000,000 Sr-31 Gulyay-gorod Mobile Automated Weapons Platforms: A 4 meter long automated countergrav vehicle outfitted either with a 180kj laser cannon (90% of them) or a 120mm rail howitzer (10%) used to defend strategic positions. It has a maximum altitute of 2 meters and a top speed of 150km/h
• 40,000 ICV-150 Infantry Combat Vehicles: A 40 tonne VTOL counter gravity vehicle capable of transporting six KSrX-25 suits into battle with two 30mj laser cannons (1,000 pulses per second) in two turrets (one top one bottle) and a set of four low power PD lasers to deal with incoming missiles. It has a maximum altitude of 3,000 meters and a maximum speed of 500km/h. Crew of three.
• 10,500 T-220 Druzhina Skytanks: A 144 tonne heavily armored VTOL vehicle, a terrifying flying wedge armed with two main turrets each with a 120mm gauss cannon (range 20km) and a 180kj laser cannon. Has a shields which can take one or two shots from enemy tanks, while it's hull can offer some protection against tank fire. Has eight low power point defense lasers against missile fire. Max altitude 2,000 meters, max speed of 350km/h.
• 1,250,000 mechanics, medics, cooks and other non combat personnel required for the upkeep of this force. These are mostly armed with 30kj DN-30 Laser PFDs (with 125 pulse power cells, 600rpm) and BPVs as a defensive measure.
• 4,000,000 Civilians with the purpose of rebuilding their economy.

You will be facing the forces of this planet. The Freehold of Galt has numerous corporations that hold power and keep some semblance of order with a weak central government. The planet has widespread poverty, low standards of living for most of its population (comparable to china, India or South America). The planet has a varied terrain much like earth's, from rainforests, forests, mountains, large boggy swamps, grasslands, tunda and 73% of it being ocean. It has twelve continents spread across the planet.

• A total population of 1.3 Billion with a notable factor that everyone and his dog is armed. About 85% of the population is in possession of a firearm, usually a 12 to 24 kilojoule semi-auto laser rifle or a old fashion 1st century AT combustion gun (either a SMG, Assault rifle or semi automatic gun, pistols are common). Many guns are heirlooms and many are given out as bonuses by the corporations. Ammunition is available in vending machines. Enough fire from these, especially the laser weapons can damage power suits. About one in ten people possess a military level 20 to 48 kilojoule laser assault rifle or Gauss sniper rifles (which can damage the more vunerable areas on a powersuit). One in a hundred has a rocket launcher and a few rockets. Many of the farmers know how to blow stuff up with fertilizer. The corporations have been selling ammo and grenades at low prices. As you would expect on a planet that was colonized by hardcore libertarians and has been ruled mostly by corporations who has a vested interest in the status quo and controls most of the schools they are not fond of socialism.
• 20 million corporate security officers: Men and women employed to keep order, drilled and capable troops. They usually have a flak vest and helmet (and sometimes additional leg and arm armor) that offers protection against shrapnel, low power laser and combustion firearm fire and are typically armed with a combustion sidearm and a 30 to 48 kilojoule laser assault rifle (100 round cell, 600rpm) and some grenades. Laser Light Machine guns, Gauss sniper rifles and grenade launchers are employed at the squad level. Anti-armor and anti-air rocket launchers and mortars at the company level.
• roughly 5,000,000 technicals: Basic wheeled trucks comparable in speed and range with 1st century trucks (even though they run on batteries) with with heavy machine guns (both laser and combustion), mortars and rocket launchers. About a quarter of them are employed by Corporate Security and have extra armor against small arms fire and turrets and can go 4,000 to 5,000 km on a single charge.
• 50,000 Corporate Security Tanks: Gauss gun armed treaded tanks with top speeds of 80km/h. Their gauss guns are comparable to one of a Druzhinia's main guns in terms of firepower and range. They also have a 180kj laser gun for anti-infantry work. These can in groups take down a Druzhinia tank if they are lucky. Might be able to take a Gauss gun shot. Some of them also have guided rocket pods
• 100,000 Corperate APCs: Armored treaded vehicles with a 180kj laser gun and an optional anti-tank rocket launcher and a top speed of 100km/h. These can carry 12 Corporate security personnel into battle and offer fire support.
• 30,000 private tanks: Comparable to Corporate security tanks but owned by the richer gun nuts and organized crime syndicates and generally in not as good shape.
• 300,000 Government Infantry: Equipped in foreign made power armor comparable in performance to Emancipator suits and armed with similar gear. However, these are operated by people who were subjected to and survived a eighteen month long brutal training course that washes up 91% of recruits, a fair number of them fatally. The result is not a general competent soldier, but a highly trained special operations soldier with a tenancy to psychopathy due to the shit his drill instructors sent him through. Numerous cashes of supplies have been set about in case of occupation.
• 1,500 FR-201 Boudicia Skytanks: Slightly faster (415km top speed) and less well armored and shielded compared to the Druzhina.

Can you take over the Freehold and if so how do you do it?

Zor

[Mr Bean]

Thirty to one is the require ratio for peacekeeping forces which means I'm at 650-1 ratio at the moment. Meaning I'm going to have to throw a million soldiers into to holding a nice toehold of two or three cities and recruit auxiliaries from the population to maintain order. Next time to start a aggressive intelligence gathering operation among the locals to find out who'll be organizing against me.

Next offer rich rewards including great autonomy to those who collaborate. Most of my forces are useless for occupation so I need to be on the ball with fracturing the population and turning them to my ends.

[Panzersharkcat]

I do not invade. Invading would be too messy and would result in too many casualties. Instead, I would debate them based on their own logic. If they, assuming they are Objectivists*, stuck to Ayn Rand's word, who was an atheist, they would have to not support a theocracy that violates their people's rights. If the Lutherians started the fight, then you should point out that the Lutherians are the aggressors and by backing them up, they are violating the non-aggression axiom. If not, then you actually would be an aggressor and it'd probably be best not to mention that point.

*Objectivists tend to hate libertarians, incidentally.

[Sidewinder]

With space and air superiority, I can simply blockade the Freehold, and then wait until they surrender to avoid starving to death- or until they all die, which ever comes first. No need to spill the blood of precious soldiers of Socialism, when I have such overwhelming advantages.

*Objectivists tend to hate libertarians, incidentally.

Why do Objectivists hate libertarians?

[Ultonius]

With space and air superiority, I can simply blockade the Freehold, and then wait until they surrender to avoid starving to death- or until they all die, which ever comes first. No need to spill the blood of precious soldiers of Socialism, when I have such overwhelming advantages.

Where in the OP does it state that the Freehold relies on interstellar trade for its food? It should be far more cost-effective for the inhabitants of an earth-like world like the one described to grow its own food rather than buy it from elsewhere, and the corporations that dominate its society would understand that. By 'blockade' do you mean preventing the movement of goods on the planet itself?

[madd0ct0r]

there's taking it, and there's turning it socialist. the former can be done with difficulty and a large insurgency.

the latter? ehh. difficult indeed.

[Borgholio]

Taking a world with a billion armed potential insurgents with only a few million trained soldiers? Yeah good luck. If anything, take an isolated (read : easily defended) portion of the world, attempt to form a beacon of socialism and hope to convert the rest of the population through example, rather than force.

[Panzersharkcat]

Why do Objectivists hate libertarians?

Because they consider us to be the equivalent of unwashed hippies. To quote her on what she thinks of us libertarians,

All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies, except that they’re anarchists instead of collectivists. But of course, anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet they want to combine capitalism and anarchism. That is worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons. They want to be hippies, but don’t want to preach collectivism, because those jobs are already taken. But anarchism is a logical outgrowth of the anti-intellectual side of collectivism. I could deal with a Marxist with a greater chance of reaching some kind of understanding, and with much greater respect. The anarchist is the scum of the intellectual world of the left, which has given them up. So the right picks up another leftist discard. That’s the Libertarian movement.

Anyway, an alternative would be to appeal to their self-interest. Make them such a large trade deal that they can't refuse. Eventually, start moving people in and encouraging their people to move out until eventually your people flood in and outnumber theirs.

[FaxModem1]

How big is my fleet in size? If they get their food via trade, I can blockade. If not they don't and grow it on the planet, and my ships are big enough to do this; I use my fleet to form one artificial moon and eclipse the sun on a permanent basis, causing eternal night until they surrender as their plants die, and they starve. My fleet won't move until I hear a surrender being broadcast from them.

[Sidewinder]

It should be far more cost-effective for the inhabitants of an earth-like world like the one described to grow its own food rather than buy it from elsewhere, and the corporations that dominate its society would understand that. By 'blockade' do you mean preventing the movement of goods on the planet itself?

It's a libertarian paradise, which means there are NO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION LAWS- or at least, none that are strictly enforced. That means the corporations will likely pollute the planet to hell, leaving the average citizen no choice but to eat imported food, considering the air, soil, and water will likely be too fucked up to sustain agriculture. And if they DO grow some pollution-resistant crops, or recycle food through some sci-fi technology...

(Battleships' sensors detect silos- grain or missile, it doesn't matter, an orbital strike will wipe it off the planet's surface.)

(Strike fighters bomb a factory- whether it manufactures foodstuffs or explosives, it doesn't matter, the fighters are wiping it off the planet's surface.)

(Fighters, loaded with napalm bombs, release their them on a field of vegetation- a farm or a flower garden, it doesn't matter, the fighters are wiping it off the planet's surface.)

Well, they're not manufacturing food anymore, not without the aid of Socialism.

[KlavoHunter]

Have a little mercy and just nuke the poor bastards in an instant if you want to destroy their world by starvation of its people (The poor first, naturally!) and destruction of everything worthwhile on it. It'd be quicker and easier than sitting around twirling your moustache in orbit for months on end...

[Sidewinder]

KlavoHunter, my goal is NOT to destroy the planet, my goal is to force the planet's inhabitants to surrender and then permit the deployment of "peacekeeping forces" on what is officially their territory. I want at least a fig leaf's worth of legality to cover what is admittedly a ruthless takeover.

[Sky Captain]

Are surgical orbital strikes allowed? If so then given good enough recon it should be possible to wipe out most of Libertopian organized military without risking my ground troops in direct combat. Taking whole planet at once would be impossible because I have too little troops to supress initial insurgency. However taking over suitable easy to defend area, maybe large island with ~ 100 million inhabitants should be possible.
Then start from there, increase the living standards of average citizen, improve infrastructure, clean up pollution and so on. If those people are rational then they will se that life is actualy better in area controlled by me than where corporations run rampant.

[madd0ct0r]

One obvious option is offer huge incentives to 'cheat' - for any one of the corporations to defect to me for an exclusive trading agreement.

But that's too easy. I want to bring these people into the light of socialism, and I'd prefer not to use reeducation camps.

I buy a lot of land*, and form an enclave there. As far as possible, I make it easy for people to join us, and I set it up to be as self sufficient as possible. Any acts of war are brutally suppressed by my flying tanks and hard ass marines.

I concentrate on the 99% who have a lot to gain from moving to socialism, and try and recruit / train a competent local workforce, capable of supporting themselves and a standing army. Defectors from Corporate armies are welcomed. Given my higher tech base, and less money wasted on corporate luxuries, I should be able to out compete the corporations around me, depressing their wages and giving more people motivation to sign up.

A large amount of cultural conditioning may be required to break people's habits of secrecy and office politics.


* I have a battlefleet in orbit. there's not many intelligent buisness men who'd say no

[Irbis]

1) Kill the fuel power plants since everything run on batteries (my favorite way is using bombs broadcasting "I'm bomb due to explode in one minute. Run like hell!" to limit casualties). Watch as food production either dwindles or saps power away from guns and military vehicles.

2) After food production starts to fall, broadcast surrender terms to every city and region: immediate surrender of all guns and military vehicles (with provision local militia loyal to us gets to keep gunpowder guns); nationalization of all corporation possessions (likewise, people loyal to us are first pick to administration of new state companies); imprisoning all military and company top staff, to be given to new government; possession of any unauthorized military grade weapons is announced to be forbidden under pain of death.

3) Watch food riots and all these armed citizens turning on corporations that couldn't care less about commoners, maybe intervening if it looks revolt could win. Since I have total mobility advantage, luring out enemy mechanized forces to be destroyed in detail is possible, too.

4) Once planet is under control, slowly crank down production of ammunition to make private gun possession die a bit after it looks population is more content with new way of living than old. Or, simply bar free healthcare, education and govt jobs to any gun owner

[Patrick Degan]

I go with the space blockade concept. Invasion would be far too costly and I don't have the force levels required to win on the ground.

Targeted orbital bombardment could speed up the deterioration of conditions planetside. In this particular case, I want to destroy corporate and financial power to create political chaos and the potential for a popular uprising. Given that this is a libertarian world, no doubt there will be whole cities devoted exclusively to banking and corporate management. Those get erased from the surface with the initial strikes. Destroy financial network hubs and corporate communication and management centres, and I disrupt the mechanisms by which the corporate armies and private security forces get paid and directed, as well as the general management structure for the planetary economy. So much the better if corporate headquarters are also eliminated, with the destruction of managers and as much of their archives as is feasible. The casualties planetside will also overwhelm their emergency management and medical care infrastructures and contribute to the disruption of the planetary power structure.

Other targeted bombardments to be executed with the objective to eliminate planetary communication hubs and local infotainment broadcasting. Having eliminated the satellite network along with their space fleet (such as it was) when I invested the planet, I then seed their orbital spaces with my own broadcast relay satellites and commence the propaganda barrage. Broadcasting socialist news and agitprop, along with popular programming (including sports) from my worlds and providing vital public information on natural disasters and adverse weather conditions.

Finally, some orbital bombardment of vital transport hubs and some of the food stocks. I only need to disrupt food distribution enough to trigger food riots. Then I offer terms of surrender, general amnesty, and immediate assistance. I offer to hire planetary corporate military and police forces with generous terms on condition that they fully cooperate with the occupation authority.

Eventually, I negotiate terms of surrender and fraternity with the new provisional government following the revolution or coup d'etat. I insist upon our "involvement" in the drafting of any new constitution as a term of armistice.

[Patrick Degan]

I should also add, of course, the necessary elimination of all ground-based anti aircraft and space defence facilities, space tracking stations, and bases for large concentrations of troops and air/space fighter bases. I might also execute a daily random bombardment, small scale, to keep up the pressure to force a surrender or uprising of one sort or another.

[Irbis]

I don't know, I'd avoid bombing anything infrastructural due to A) civilian losses, B) Not giving enemies morale victories, C) Need to rebuild later, D) Making population bored and with less to do, enabling fractioning.

[madd0ct0r]

I forgot to ask

Zor - is this based off Germany's invasion of russia, or the USA's invasion of iraq?

[Zor]

Just a reversal of the typical "Libertopians vs evil invaders" science fiction you see crop up.

Zor

[PeZook]

So, is there a reason why starving them and forcing a surrender will magically make occupation easy? They all have guns, and hate socialism ; You'll never be able to collect all the weapons or prevent an insurgency from forming, especially since they have a cadre of hundreds of thousands of trained psychopaths who'll probably fight whatever you do.

Especially since this is Space Soviet Russia we're talking about here ; The starved masses will like their free food until the NKVDVDROM starts shipping dissenters off to the uranium mines of Khyllima. Then they'll go dig up all those weapons they buried during the surrender.

[Darth Nostril]

Rocks fall, libertarians die.
Once the dust has settled send in good socialist pioneers to repopulate.

[Irbis]

So, is there a reason why starving them and forcing a surrender will magically make occupation easy?

Nope. It won't be easy. All the siege is supposed to achieve is to destroy unity, give us warm bodies to die instead of our troops, and maybe cause a few riots sapping the enemy strength.

They all have guns, and hate socialism ; You'll never be able to collect all the weapons or prevent an insurgency from forming,

Actually, yes, some kind of insurrection will form, but the point is, we control ammo and gun supply. If Germans in 1939 managed to almost completely disarm every occupied nation turning la resistance everywhere into small acts of sabotage, so can guys with power armour.

especially since they have a cadre of hundreds of thousands of trained psychopaths who'll probably fight whatever you do.

As long as they are dispersed groups they will achieve nothing. Double nothing if they will focus on collaborators, and they will, as they are easier target. If we can get any local group cooperating with us, or even simply offer rewards for pointing out people who didn't turned in guns, we win. That's why I'm against random bombardment, no point in angering civilians.

Especially since this is Space Soviet Russia we're talking about here ; The starved masses will like their free food until the NKVDVDROM starts shipping dissenters off to the uranium mines of Khyllima. Then they'll go dig up all those weapons they buried during the surrender.

Laser guns need power packs, specialized maintenance, and are presumably pickable by sensors. But, that's not the point. Even if they manage to hide guns, as long as regular army ceased to exist, we can do anything we want. Once there is no governments anymore, we can mass our forces on one city, comb everything with sensors and human searchers, then move to the next. No partisan force ever won without economic support from outside, no matter how well armed and motivated.

[madd0ct0r]

As long as they are dispersed groups they will achieve nothing. Double nothing if they will focus on collaborators, and they will, as they are easier target. If we can get any local group cooperating with us, or even simply offer rewards for pointing out people who didn't turned in guns, we win. That's why I'm against random bombardment, no point in angering civilians.

Laser guns need power packs, specialized maintenance, and are presumably pickable by sensors. But, that's not the point. Even if they manage to hide guns, as long as regular army ceased to exist, we can do anything we want. Once there is no governments anymore, we can mass our forces on one city, comb everything with sensors and human searchers, then move to the next. No partisan force ever won without economic support from outside, no matter how well armed and motivated.

yeah, because that tactic has worked so well for the USA historically...

it's the economy stupid. Make it unprofitable to not be socialist.

[PeZook]

Certainly the partisans are stupid and will NEVER simply reocuppy cleared cities once the Soviet marines move on to the next one over to comb it for guns. Because the iraqi insurgents totally didn't do that with Fallujah over and over again

Actually, yes, some kind of insurrection will form, but the point is, we control ammo and gun supply. If Germans in 1939 managed to almost completely disarm every occupied nation turning la resistance everywhere into small acts of sabotage, so can guys with power armour.

Err...they actually didn't? They didn't even TRY to search every single home for weapons, and the "small acts of sabotage" often involved company-level actions. Or division-level, like the Warsaw Uprising.

Laser guns need power packs, specialized maintenance, and are presumably pickable by sensors. But, that's not the point. Even if they manage to hide guns, as long as regular army ceased to exist, we can do anything we want. Once there is no governments anymore, we can mass our forces on one city, comb everything with sensors and human searchers, then move to the next. No partisan force ever won without economic support from outside, no matter how well armed and motivated.

On planetary scales, you'll be chasing insurgents around in circles - you clear one city and leave for the next one, and they'll move right back in. It's a freakin' planet - 1.3 billion people is enough to build a whole lot of cities, and it provides even more convenient hiding places where you can temporarily stash weapons.

As for outside support...the Space Soviet Union is at war with some presumably quite powerful enemy, so saying "LOL NO OUTSIDE SUPPORT" is kinda unwarranted. So the insurgents have to do is make it annoying and unprofitable to hold the planet, they don't need to defeat your awesomesauce marines in direct battle. That's what the lutherans are doing.

It's not like high command is going to let you just park a bunch of massive battleships over the planet forever so that they can do absolutely nothing but blockade some backwater. The battlefleet will have to leave, eventually, the blockade will have to be relaxed, and thus voila outside support can start coming in.