Fed (Post Dominion War) vs. Fed (SFB post ISC War)

[The Yosemite Bear]

The United Federation of Planets with it's fleet at the end of the Dominion War with their demonstrated Fleets. and refreced number's of Cap ships and tactical fighters


vs.

The United Federation of Planets from the Star Fleet Battles Universe, just after the war with the InterStellar Concordium) with their equipment and fighters, and numbers of Cap ships.

[consequences]

SFB is actually one of the only Star Trek materials that constantly uses warp strafing. Presuming that the Post-Dominion Starfleet can't match this capability, the speed and manueverability advantage combined with the obscene range SFB is capable of might offset the firepower and shield advantage that the later Starfleet probably would have. The Federation of the SFB universe is also larger than the Federation of DS9, especialy if you factor in the off-map exploration that would occur during the course of the General War, and the Andromedan conflict. The post dominion starfleet probably has the advantage in numbers, but not strategic speed. It would be interesting, but hard energy figures for SFB ships are needed before a winner can be determined.

[Alyeska]

The Post ISC SFB Federation will kick the shit out of the Post Dominion War Federation. The largest SFB Fed ship shatter a planet, and both moves and fires at greater speeds and ranges consistantly.

[beyond hope]

I was going to ask if anyone had "real world" figures for SFB ships and how they'd stack up against TNG Starfleet ships... I'm guessing not.

I'm responding without my Captain's Rulebook handy, so if I've got this wrong I apologize in advance. The way I remember the orders of battle, though, the SFB Feds have maybe 500 ships. Figure 2000 ships for the TNG Feds, and TNG has a 4 to 1 numerical advantage. Without hard numbers on weapons power and shield strengths, it's tough to say whether the SFB Feds can overcome the problem of numbers or not. Speeds should be roughly even, maybe a little higher for the TNG feds (unless we're going to argue that their warp technology uses the same thing but in fact is unrelated, in which case we need "real world" speed equivalents for the SFB ships as well.) Finally, where did the "planet-cracking" SFB ship come from? I distinctly remember the rulebook stating that NO ship (aside from a space monster) has the kind of power to destroy a planet... even a B-10 battleship only devastates the surface.

At any rate, I do see the SFB feds having a number of advantages:

1) Their ships are actually designed as warships. Anything from the late General War period on is a purely military ship.

2) Starbases have monstrous amounts of firepower, enough that it takes a good-sized fleet to take one out. The same is true to a lesser extent with battlestations, so that gives the SFB Feds a much stronger defensive position.

3) The SFB feds have hundreds of fighters to throw into the fight, both defensively on planets and as attrition units in fleet battles. TNG feds don't seem to have as many, more importantly their ships don't mount the same kind of anti-fighter (and anti-drone) defenses. Depending on the relative power of the weapons and shields, that could be a HUGE vulnerability in TNG ships.

4) SFB Feds have a well-developed support arm, with dedicated support ships. TNG Starfleet's support and resupply capabilties are more questionable.

5) the SFB Feds have a well-organized ground force. They have ground assault shuttles, support weapons, and tanks. Once they take territory, they can HOLD it short of planetary bombardment.

6) SFB Feds make regular use of mines and have dedicated minesweepers. Aside from the one self-replicating minefield, you never see this out of TNG Feds. If that indicates a reluctance to use mine warfare, it gives a strong edge to the SFB Starfleet.

So, the only real questions as I see it are the numbers and how SFB ships compare to TNG ones for weapons power and shielding. If one SFB ship is a rough match in firepower and shields for the equivalent-sized TNG ship, the TNG feds will have a serious fight on their hands (particularly in light of SFB's ability to fire drone waves at very long ranges and the drone armament of their fighters.) I never did get Federation and Empire, so I'm not sure how the numbers would compare and what the construction rates are like. Give the SFB side equal numbers and they should kick TNG's ass.

[consequences]

the Federations total wartime constructionc every six months consisted of 1 Dreadnought, 2 heavy cruisers, 12 War cruisers, and 12 frigates, from dedicated construction facilities without incurring extra costs to build. This doesn't account for the later wartime construction ships, much less the x-ships.

[Marcus]

Sorry, newbie to these boards.

In response to questions, RE: Firepower of SFB Vessels

In SFB, it requires 200 Damage points to 'devestate' one hexside, that is one-sixth the surface area, of a Planet (planet in this context is assumed to be class-M, human habitable)

Assuming that the Americas lie within roughly a 60 degree arc of the earths surface, viewed from above, we could assume that 100 'damage points' would be sufficient to 'devestate' Central and North America.

A Note on 'Devestate'. A squirrly term, poorly defined. A 'devestated' planet, IIRC, no longer produces anything towards the war effort (This from Federation and Empire, the Strategic Game associated with SFB). However, said Devesated planet can recover, and recontribute to the war, within a relative short timeframe (under 4 years, I dont recall the exact amount of time).

Attempted Definition of 'Devestate'

I will, for purposes of this theoretical work, assume that said recovery includes repopulation from external sources, and the heavy use of Von-Neumann style replecator factories. It is to be noted that the races of SFB, unlike those of the StarTrek Cannon, are ~not~ stupid, and ~do~ use the technologies available to them to the fullest extend.

Thus we assume a 'high damage extent' for the 'Devestation' Threshold. Certainly not to the extent of the infamous Imperial Surface-Burner (4 years would be an irresponsibly short reconstruction time, even assuming external seeding, weather-control technologies, etc.). Likely a more minor event, sufficient to kill every living thing on the surface.

Thus, 100 'SFB Damage' is sufficient to kill everything in North America.

I am not a specialist in exotic weapons of mass destruction, and cannot begin to measure the yield necessary to get that effect from a point strike. Maybe one of the SW number-crunchers, whose abilities in math lie far, far beyond mine, can come up with something.

It will be noted that the 100 Damage denoted above can be delt in a single salvo by a Federation 'Jersey' Class Battlecruiser, firing from 800,000 KM away.

Due to the nature of its armament, a 100 year out-of-date, combat-mostly-innefective Romulan Warbird can accomplish the same destruction from a much greater distance, by firing an FTL-propigating plasma weapon.

Whatever its comparison to Starwars damage scales (a conversation I am loathe to indulge in, considering the overall bent of the typical inhabitant of this forum), I firmly belive that this damage event fairly comfortably outstrips the performance show or alluded to by any vessel in the ST:TNG or later timeline.

Coupled with the behaviour of SFB ships at Superlumial Speeds (the simple fact is that almost all engagements are entirely, or nearly entirely, fought at FTL speeds... any vessel incapable of tactical FTL can be fairly comfortably described as 'Target'..), and the overall MUCH more carefully thought out combat behaviour, tactics, and fleet structure of the SFB universe...

I would not only back the Federation of SFB against its TNG, Berman and Braga defiled relative, but would go so far as to back any one of the minor powers of the SFB universe against most any concactenation of TNG force. (said TNG force being limited by the 'rules' of reality forced on it by the shows).

As for 'Planet Shattering'... the amout of force (in SFB) necessary to perform this task is never defined. I dont have the Juggernaught, Death Machine, or any other planet-killing Monster SSDs in front of me, so I cannot tell you off the top of my head how much (SFB) damage is assumed necessary.

[Marcus]

Edit to above. 80,000 KM, not 800,000. Must sleep more.