Alphas cancelled

[Adrian McNair]

And another one bites the dust. Though I was less than impressed with the underwhelming finale this is still unfortunate news. In many ways Alphas was Heroes done right. It had some interesting and thought-provoking things to say about a well-worn subject.

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing which show Syphilis SyFy cancels next. That upcoming series Defiance looks like a solid contender. Maybe they can forgo doing any marketing for their programs altogether.

[StarSword]

Fools. Ya fools.

What's this, the eighth decent sci-fi show they've killed?

[Ahriman238]

Figures.

The show had been shedding viewers for a while, I personally blame the darker feel of the last season, so I was somewhat prepared for this. Still, do they have to ax everything that's a bit creative or interesting?

[Skywalker_T-65]

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm really not. SyFy ( ) can't keep a decent show going to save their lives. Atlantis, Eureka, heck, even Universe...and now Alphas. I wonder what's next on the chopping block...Warehouse 13? Or maybe Being Human?

Ugh.

[Gaidin]

SyFy's problem is that the other channels are actually starting to branch out into sci-fi shows and some are doing it decently well instead of being hit-or-mostly-miss. They're no longer the pure go to channel for sci-fi tv, and they have competition to work against now. They need to get their bearings straight and figure out how to do this correctly again, as it were.

[Covenant]

Sci-Fi, or SyFy or whatever, used to be the go-to place for shitty old science fiction, some fantasy, and occasionally cool new shows or the intentionally crappy Sci-Fi Original Movies.

But now their programming is all kinds of muddled. Let's check out the lineup for, say, today:

Ghost Hunters, Six Hours of Horror Movies, Being Human, Merlin, Continuum (an actual Sci-Fi show!!), WWE Smackdown (guh), Being Human, Merlin, Continuum, Lost Girl, Ghost Mine, Face Off, Total Blackout.

Okay, so, we see nearly all of their "Top Shows" in a single programming block, and of those I count only one Science Fiction show in a traditionally science fiction venue. Right now this is a fantasy network with a lowest common denominator approach best summed up by their combination of Reality TV, Shitty Horror, and Professional Wrestling.

It used to be, once, that I'd turn it on and catch the end of a Godzilla movie or something right before they started up an episode of Next Generation during lunch, and I'd turn back to it later that day to catch the next Stargate episode. Really, there's no surprise that SyFy is cancelling Sci-Fi shows when that's not the direction they're going anymore. Executive meddling or whatever, but they could really easily put together a great Science Fiction lineup of older shows or other network's shows now in syndication, but they seem to be entirely devoted to trending data about Modern Fantasy and Ghosts.

I feel like every show nowadays is some mixture of Crime Drama and Modern Fantasy. Has nobody pitched the idea for a Blade Runner TV show? Like, really? How fucking easy would it be to make that show shit money? Guns, robots that look conveniently like people, a constant stream of people to chase down and fight, morally conflicted hero, possible teamwork angle if the main dude gets a partner, and a kind of discussion about man's inhumanity to man or whatever. In a crime procedural! What the hell.

[Stark]

Who watches this stuff? I looked up those shows, and there is no way in fuck I'd watch any of them. It makes sense to kill shows with poor ratings, but only if you have reason to believe you can replace them with shows that get better ratings.

If Merlin was the highest rating show on the channel I would laugh on into the night.

[Alkaloid]

It's a sad, sad world when shows like this are cancelled presumably because of low ratings, but NCIS, in its tenth fucking season, literally just broadcast an episode with its highest ratings ever.

[Stark]

Do you mean from some kind of 'taste' perspective, or a business one?

Syfy's whole thing is probably an attempt to move away from chasing a tiny market with expensive shows to chasing a broader market with cheaper shows. That makes a lot of sense, assuming they actually produce any shows anyone watches (besides someone mentioning Alphas to me the other day, I'm totally outside whatever group watches this stuff).

Covenant's suggest of a (sigh) Blade Runner tv show at least has the benefits of being cheap and quite possibly not requiring any special effects or expensive makeup or even sets. I imagine, however, that in whatever meeting they discussed it in some bright spark would say 'so why even have robots at all' and make another crime show.

[Connor MacLeod]

i wonder if it reflects western attitudes towards entertainment and what draws people (or perhaps to some extent what people have been conditioned to want from entertainment) - television companies are going to be drawn to maximize their beneift for minimal output, which is precisely why stuff like reality TV shows are desirable - they're cheap and they draw alot of (American) viewers due to the voyeur factor. But when that sort of shit gets popular, the desire and motivation (and interest in from the fans) for anything innovative (risky), epic or detailed (Expensive and prone to bore certain segments of the audience), or whatever is reduced. Unless you're someone like James Cameron or Ridley Scott of course, in which case your fame is an automatic draw and you're given greater leeway.

I imagine you could see similar patterns in other entertainment venues as well, as well as comparing it to how other countries handle entertainment and what is popular.

Edit: more to the point, I wonder what it says about western/American culture and the sorts of entertainment we like. I've been kinda thinking about this since reading that Zero Dark thirty thread in Off topic.

[Stark]

I think if you're looking for lots of space pew pews (which are expensive) or thrilling battles (which are expensive) and that sort of thing in scifi, you just have to give up on live action. nBSG was the last scifi show that seemed to get any penetration, and it was never The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones, and may well have cost a similar amount.

Luckily, there is absolute shitloads of amazing space pew pew animation just waiting for you to watch it, with all the trillion missile, 200 gigaton, light-second, planet vaporising tough men hard decision business you could want.

EDIT - Connor, I don't think its an accident that for a decade or more popular American shows have included so many 'strong tough people break the rules and follow their gut to punish the wicked and give the viewer a catharsis' shows. I mean, its pretty disturbing from outside (especially the way these shows have shifted views towards justice, crime and punishment, individual rights, etc) but it is similar to the way you can now retroactively normalise and even celebrate the terrible things done to track down Bin Laden.

[Connor MacLeod]

I never watched nBSG because it struck me as being too.. soap operatic. Maybe it was good or not but I can't really comment and I have my fill of grimdark tolerance fufilled by 40K (past actually.)


And yes I was just thinking of other cultural stuff (like Japanese sci fi) contrasted with the western stuff. but in particular I was wondering about things like (for example) the 'wish fufillment' aspect of sci fi like you're apt to find in a Baen novel, or the certain 'sameness' of certain kinds of fiction (such as the ever popuplar 'power armored supersoldier with his pistol/assaultrifle/shotgun/rocket launcher/melee weapon combos'). Given certain attitudes in American culture (like a propensity to demonize what we don't like or aren't comfortable with, the warrior-ideal worship, dislike of complex or difficult issues.) that would translate into entertainment. I mean there's an obvious 'voeyuer' aspect to a great deal of popular western entertainment, and there's an underlying amount of 'It allows me to feel better about myself and more superior to other people' to it that just... bothers me. Its like the old circus Freakshows brought up to modern standards, ro something.

And the worst thing is, its becoming more pervasive. If you look at channels like 'lifetime' you see even more disgusting versions of voyeurist entertainment being proliferated. And yet, someone is clearly watching it to drive this sort of thing, so it must be popular, and who is to blame?

contrast with what I've been watching with, say, Gundam (yeah I know big shock I mentioned *that*) and you tend to get things that are less black and white, less simplistic in story, and less 'wish fufillment' - we dont get wars that glorify killing the other side and how great it makes us, you tend to get 'war does terrible things to humanity, but it may not be avoidable.' and a certain play on the baser aspects of human nature which thrive on such things (competition, the desire to win, the band of brothers aspect..)

[Stark]

Man we hijacked this thread pretty good. :V

With any cultural business, its pretty hard to see who is responsible, even if you can see where it started. I mean, both crime drama and 'reality TV' have changed a great deal over the last 20 years (I mean, Law and Order used to be an actual drama ffs), and this is probably in response to viewer preference. America basically had a breakdown after 9/11, so it isn't really surprising to me that the shift towards shows that reinforce shaken beliefs or reassure fears occurred.

However, as relevant to science fiction shows, I think viewer preference changed as well. Would TNG be a huge success now? I don't think it would. From basic research on the shows people talk about (including Alphas) it really seems like attempts to tweak exisiting scifi ideas to pay in the new environment, and I don't think this approach works.

[Connor MacLeod]

I like to rant, its a given I'll hijack it somehow. But it is kkind of relevant because the reason Syfy turned out how it did, or the lack of 'good sci fi' has alot to do with the people nad the culture producing it and the expectations of the fans.

And I agree that its hard to pintpoint it clearly, I didn't intend to try to say there was any one particular cause. In actuality it probably just developed over time, purely by accident, and then someone picked up on this and said 'hey, this seems to work really well, lets keep doing this' and then everyone else copies them. Entertainment (at least in America) can be very imitative (again the 'power armored superhero standing alone against the evil alien hordes'. Heck you can even draw parallels to the 'lone american hero/white man standing against the evil nonamericna/white hordes' in various first person shooters depending on how broad you looked.)

I would argue though that American media has a certain gift for manipulating the viewership, and over time you could expect the viewership (or fandom if we are talking books or games) to have diminishing expectations when it comes to entertainment and viewing, which makes things easier for them when it comes to making it. Give it long enough, and certain things we took for granted no longer exist.

Funny thing is, you could see that in gaming trends too I expect. All those people lamenting the loss of 'old' RPGs, adventure games, space combat sims, or whatever... the gaming trends, teh demographics, and other things changed, and some things simply became too niche, unpopular.. and I suspect that with those same trends things have been 'manipulated' to varying degrees by a complaint fanbase as well.

Maybe if people started watching more gundam in greater amounts, we could solve this problem

[Stark]

Gundam will probably be funded into eternity by mechandising sales.

But that's the sort of thing I mean - in a world where the last 'big' scifi show was nBSG, and the last several failures were attempts to rework old ideas, you can understand why people would be unwilling to fund expensive shows. Even if these shows fail because the writing is poops or whatever (and really, what is 'poop' and what is 'not right for the market') expecting much scifi is probably foolish.

Cov's Blade Runner idea (aside from probable rights issues, and the two-edged sword of branding resulting in fans feeling the 'own' the idea) would be both cheap and allow the show to be about the kind of moralising rough justice that the American (and world) public seem to want, and is thus more likely than a super-expensive space opera thing.

Given the response to expensive scifi things (like OMG NEW STAR TREK SUXXX) its hard to imagine anyone wanting to risk a lot of money on such a small, expensive, and fickle fan niche.

[Connor MacLeod]

Gundam does exist by merchandising of course, but I'm sure you would be the first to point out that the economic aspect does not prevent Gundam (or other sci fi anime) from having interesting stories or characters, even when it has lots of action, starship porn or whatever. Which is an interesting contrast to the perception that its 'too hard' to do in Western sci fi. You could probably do some sort of sci fi in animation in the west, but that still seems to have the 'for kids' stigma to it, despite the fact shows like Simpsons and Family guy are animated and nt just for kids. I mean the closest to animated sci fi on TV is what, clone wars? Still for kids!

And the blade runner idea has merit (not so much emulating blade runner, but I was earlier thinking along those lines in terms of 'sci fi that doesn't involve spaceships and space war and faster than light drives' - you could tell alot of stories (even 'war' stories) in such a setting and you need little or no special effects (invisible lazors are REALISTIC!) and with a decent set of people you could probably get alot of creative mileage out of it. Except as you noted, the tv execs would probably feel the sci fi element is redundant and just make a crime drama, which is cheaper (and just as likely to draw a crowd.) Same issue with any sort of 'fantasy' series too.. I mean even the low end stuff like Xena or Hercules from way back is probably a thing of the past for similar reasons. It would require too dramatic a change in viewing trends and attitudes, and I don't hold out for anything like that happening (at least not anytime soon.)

[Stark]

Regarding the popular shows at the moment, it occurs that by removing the 'science fiction' element those shows seem to avoid the constant nerd harping about DOING DUMB THINGS or OMG SO UNREALISTIC. I mean Rome took hits for being ahistorical, but nobody seems to care that the people in The Walking Dead make poor, emotional, short-sighted decisions (as they didn't in other older modern fantasy shows like Lost) or even when Game of Thrones hinges on the idea that most people are petty idiots. This could be the viewer mix (ie, normal people can watch Walking Dead for 'normal' drama reasons, but are less likely to watch nBSG for 'normal' drama) which less strongly favours the incredibly loud, petulant, and basically impossible to please nerd market.

[Meest]

The SyFy network also has a limit to their viewership too, even the wrestling show barely gets 2 million and they get promotion on another NBC channels. To expect every show to be in that range is just beyond how many people tune into that channel. Stargate got cancelled with around that same 2 million average viewers, there's even more channels now so the rating share will be even lower. Will have to see what happens with Defiance that should be the highest budget this year and has a MMO game tie end unless it's a 2mil+ hit it's doomed too, but SyFy needs to realize that's all they're going to get and stick with that model.

Lost Girl and Continuum are Canadian produced shows and are hovering around 1 million so guessing they won't last long since SyFy isn't getting all the profits. Continuum had a better first episode rating in Canada so that's not good news for US viewing. Can't really say if it's a popular culture thing, Eureka was light and comedic, Being Human and Warehouse 13 all seem light yet are cancelled or on the edge of being cancelled too. Really think it's just the channel and it's execs. Hard to tell if "hard" scifi would have a better place on another channel, but nothing really to compare SyFy too so guessing no one will risk it, closest channel I can think of is BBC America.

[bilateralrope]

Lost Girl and Continuum are Canadian produced shows and are hovering around 1 million so guessing they won't last long since SyFy isn't getting all the profits.

At the same time, wouldn't they be cheaper for SyFy since they aren't paying the production costs directly ?

[Stark]

If peak channel viewers is 2m, I don't know how they even expect to make money. Is there some trick of the cable network system I don't get?

[ray245]

If peak channel viewers is 2m, I don't know how they even expect to make money. Is there some trick of the cable network system I don't get?

Maybe they are hoping that their series can achieve syndication? '

Come to think of it, why would any network want to produce sci-fi series? The return of investment will be poor compared to other less expensive shows, and it is extremely hard to expand the shows's viewing figures. The only good thing about creating a new Sci-fi series is that you might be able to build up a fandom, thus giving you the opportunities to expand the series into other media forms.

[Guardsman Bass]

They get licensing fees from the cable distributors, usually on the order of a few or couple dozen cents per subscriber to go along with advertising. The idea being that if they have stuff that enough subscribers really want, they'll be able to get bigger per-subscriber licensing fees from the cable company. In that sense, 2 million viewers is actually decent for a basic cable show.

[Tsyroc]

Lost Girl and Continuum are Canadian produced shows and are hovering around 1 million so guessing they won't last long since SyFy isn't getting all the profits. Continuum had a better first episode rating in Canada so that's not good news for US viewing. Can't really say if it's a popular culture thing, Eureka was light and comedic, Being Human and Warehouse 13 all seem light yet are cancelled or on the edge of being cancelled too. Really think it's just the channel and it's execs. Hard to tell if "hard" scifi would have a better place on another channel, but nothing really to compare SyFy too so guessing no one will risk it, closest channel I can think of is BBC America.

I started watching Lost Girl on video and now I've been downloading season 3 through iTunes since I don't have cable. I'm not sure if SyFy gets any of that. The channel is mentioned on the packaging for the Blu-Ray but the opening for the show is Showcase only. Some of the cast were at ComicCon in San Diego last summer so it seems like the show was on a bit of an upswing. Whether that will be enough to keep it going on SyFy or only on Showcase remains to be seen though.

Warehouse 13 is pretty light and rather cheesy, but that's been part of the fun of the show. I liked the first season of Eureka but haven't seen any past that. Being Human looked like it was well done but I didn't particularly care for the British original so I haven't given the American version much of a chance. I didn't know it was considered kind of light though. The season premier of Lost Girl was a total riff on the women in prison genre that was pretty hilarious so add that show to light and comedic list. It does have the added plus of also going for the risqué and sexy, for basic cable anyway.

I should state that I didn't like Alphas. I gave it a shot when it first came out but haven't watched it since the first season.

[Alkaloid]

I meant from a taste perspective Stark, not a business one. It makes complete business sense to keep making NCIS, I just have no idea how it keeps drawing bigger audiences. It has almost no redeeming features, it's cliché as hell, and I have to admit I keep watching it even though intellectually I know I should hate it. Although for a show that seems welded to the right/pro patriot act/to hell with due process for terrorists side of the political spectrum, its surprisingly cool towards of Israel.

The problem with the blade runner idea is that is essentially what Alphas was. A procedural that was slightly fantastic and introduced relate able, sympathetic and complex villains who ultimately can't be defeated through violence and force more complex solutions to problems. That was what made Blade Runner interesting, not that they were robots, that they were robots whos perspective you could understand and whose problems you couldn't easily solve. Apparently that doesn't work as a show at the moment.

As for the rest of the syfy stable thats been mentioned, Eureka I turned off shortly after the time travel memory wipe business, and I gave up as soon as they tried to re spin Carter and what's her name director lady, because apparently a leading man and lady not getting together is against the law. The UK being human was too soapy for me, I don't see the US one being better, Lost Girl sounds exactly like the umpteen million urban fantasy book series at the moment where our female protagonist has increasingly steamy sex with increasingly pretty fairy tale creatures, and Warehouse 13 always seemed terrible. I can't even begin to comprehend why anyone would consider watching wrestling.

Apart from that, is Sanctuary still a thing? The first couple of seasons were OK, good use of low budged green screen to make a distinctive visual style but it went off the deep end fast when it seemed to get the budget to shoot on actual sets and just started to look cheap and tacky. Actually looking at that list I don't know why they ever green lit Alphas in the first place, nothing else there is even close to being as complex as it at least tried to be.

It's also tempting to blame Summer Glau. Evidence is mounting that she is either a show killer or has an agent with terrible, terrible judgement.

[Meest]

Sanctuary bowed out after 4 seasons and they did drop the whole green screen only look and went more conventional. It got hit the I'm guessing is either bad creative that took over Stargate at the end or studio pressure, they added in the tough independent female co-star and completely dropped the nerdy photographic memory male lead and turned him "hunky". Went from unique to same old stuff, though I did like the whole London and Jack the Ripper stuff, I just prefer more serious fantasy/sci-fi where people can be in danger and not light wrap it all up reset style.

Problem with competing with "light" sci-fi is that now Grimm and Once upon a Time have taken that segment with network backing and ratings so I think Syfy should accept and pander to more serious sci-fi since they just can't break their rating ceiling even with mainstream safe shows. Also think their whole cheesy movie of the week stuff really hurt their reputation, people think that's the stupid channel with all the lame movies on instead of a geek chic channel. It seemed to have a better reputation when it was known for mostly Stargate and nBSG and not reality or D- list movies.